Which stance provides more accurate placement for you?

OP said:
Which stance, Weaver, Isocoles (or something else) gives you personally the best shot placement, in a range environment?

In a range environment, you have as long as you like to line up that sight. The difference between Weaver, Iso, bullseye or whatever isn't going to make much of a difference.

The bullet is going to go where the gun was pointed at the moment the trigger breaks. You can point the gun very well using Weaver or Iso.
 
Isosceles has been my main stance but I have old injuries that affect the way I need to/can stand for target accuracy. Because of that I have adopted a modified Weaver. YMMV
 
zombietactics said:
The difference between Weaver, Iso, bullseye or whatever isn't going to make much of a difference.

The bullet is going to go where the gun was pointed at the moment the trigger breaks.

It ain't quite that simple. The bullet is going to go where the gun was pointed at the moment the bullet leaves the barrel.

Fine accuracy involves, among other things, consistency. The stance and grip you apply most consistently is the better one. Stand or grip inconsistently, and the gun moves a wee bit differently every time bullet goes down the barrel.

Speed also involves, among other things, consistency. It ain't the muzzle rise & fall that slows down one's shooting - it's having to re-establish a new sight picture for every shot. An effective stance & grip allows the muzzle to come back to the same place every time, so the shooter only has to confirm before breaking the next shot.
 
It ain't quite that simple. The bullet is going to go where the gun was pointed at the moment the bullet leaves the barrel.

If you are stating that there might theoretically be some subtle movement of the barrel between the time the trigger breaks and the bullet leaves the barrel (about .0012 seconds) you are correct.

If you are suggesting that this movement is caused by recoil, that really doesn't happen. Slow motion photography and motion studies have falsified that notion decisively.
 
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For repeatable accurate shooting, body alignment is critical. I've always found it easier to adjust body alignment from an isosceles position, not to say you can't do it from a weaver, just seems like there is more variability. Also I have found for follow up shots, isosceles is more predictable. The gun recoils and returns more naturally. Weaver is ok for a first shot but IMO, shooting groups is easier from isosceles.
 
I would proffer not to get hung up on stances. Practice all of them. Practice shooting one handed. Practice shooting on one foot or in no stance whatsoever.
I agree with zincwarrior here. If you dont shoot all of them, including any or all bastardized versions of any them you might come up with, I dont think your being realistic in your expectations.

Using "one" stance, is like only having "one" knife for all occasions, an impossibility in the real world.
 
^^^ I agree. But that said, it's fine to have one stance you always fall back on if the situation allows it. My default stance is isosceles, but I'll use other stances if I need to.
 
I'm with Deaf Smith... I'll shoot however aligns my front and rear sights, including standing on one foot and rubbing my belly with my off-hand.
 
Well 4thpoint,

Those other guys just don't do Zen.

Just Google 'Brian Enos egret stance' and go to images. On his forum they can we the true master showing proper stance.

But on the serious side, keep in mind in many defensive encounters you will be lucky to even have the time to bring the gun up to eyesight level much less Take a perfect stance.

Deaf
 
PPC and NRA action pistol matches are more suitable for the modified weaver than USPSA, IDPA, Speed Challenge, 'etc.
Both allow more time per shot and require more accuracy.
See why it pays to know how to do more than one.
Criticisms expected..........
 
If I have all the time in the world for a shot, or get the choice of how I want to set up for a shot, usually weaver is my choice. As noted by James K's comment, this won't always be the case...

Some years ago, I encountered some folks who had trained to always assume a "correct stance". They were students of those who followed slavishly the dictates of the "gurus". If the ground wasn't perfectly flat, with the proper feel, and they couldn't get into a proper position, they were lost and couldn't hit anything. I have to suggest (heresy!!!) that one never become wedded to some "correct" stance and position (even for the range) that one cannot respond to an emergency unless one can stand the "right" way.

I had a conversation along these lines with an instructor at Thunder Ranch. I was shooting COM groups that were 4-6" in size and most of my counterparts were shooting <4" in size. It was a turn and fire drill where I was not getting a "proper stance" but my shots were consistently the first on target in what I deemed to be good enough. My stand and hold varied depending on direction of turn and location of target relative to my position.

An ongoing discussion occurred that was educational and I was fed the whole biscuit about "fast is fine but accurate is final" and other such sayings. Personally, I am not going to worry about 2-3" of variance either way if I am on target unless I have to do so. For COM, it was not necessary. My thought is that good hits on target first are worth more than possible perfect shots on target second, which may be after I am shot which means I may not be making my perfect shot.

I shoot weaver, modified weaver, and isosceles depending on my relationship to the target and whether stationary or in motion. No one method works best for all situations for all people, but they all 3 work well for me.
 
An ongoing discussion occurred that was educational and I was fed the whole biscuit about "fast is fine but accurate is final" and other such sayings. Personally, I am not going to worry about 2-3" of variance either way if I am on target unless I have to do so. For COM, it was not necessary. My thought is that good hits on target first are worth more than possible perfect shots on target second, which may be after I am shot which means I may not be making my perfect shot.
I very much agree with your thinking here.

I think to much emphasis is made about shooting nice little groups, and often unrealistically so, when getting good hits on target and doing so quickly, is more important, even if they arent in a tight little group or perfectly placed.

Shooting groups simply shows you have the basics down. What comes after that is, you now have to apply them in an imperfect world thats constantly changing and evolving as your go through it. Thats something that tends to screw up the perfectionists dream world of perfect little groups.

As far as Im concerned, there is no such thing as a "bad" hit, and ANY hit you put on an adversary is a "good" hit, and in your favor, especially when you consider that its not just a single shot, but one of many more to quickly come.

No doubt, precise hits are best, and what we strive for, but when you step away from the static world of broadside targets with repetitive, conditioned aiming points, and into the real world, where youre moving, and your adversary is moving, and you may be shooting from any conceivable position, at targets that offer varying 360* target choices, you need to be flexible and comfortable flowing into and out of what ever is necessary as things go.
 
My pistol training goes back forty years to my USMC days. I don't recall the terms "Weaver" or "Isoceles" being used, it was just "here's the shooting position" and it was the Isoceles. That's what I've used ever since.
 
gwillikers posted:PPC and NRA action pistol matches are more suitable for the modified weaver than USPSA, IDPA, Speed Challenge, 'etc.
Both allow more time per shot and require more accuracy.
See why it pays to know how to do more than one.
Criticisms expected..........
More time? in PPC we shot revolvers. we shot 12 rounds from 15 yards .6 rounds ,reload and fire 6 more in 20 seconds. That is pretty fast ,but I managed to keep them in the 10 ring...I have learn to shoot other stances but still revert to a modified weaver.my stance changes when I shoot a semi auto.
 
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