Which Savage would you buy?

C

Carmike

New member
Hello all,

A friend of mine works for a company owned by Vista Outdoor, so he's able to get a *significant* discount on anything made by a company owned by Vista. Turns out they own Savage, and while he only gets to purchase two guns a year, he bought one but doesn't have the $$ to get another. He said he's willing to order one for me before 2018 rolls around.

I can get any Savage (or Stevens) gun currently in production. To be honest, I'm looking to add a fun gun to the stable. I do hunt, but I'm content with my Ruger American 7mm-08. I only hunt deer and find I don't really enjoy shooting larger calibers. I currently have no plans to head out West for antelope, and I don't plan to hunt bear. I'm a new hunter (two years' experience), and while I do hope to get into bird hunting, I do already have a Rem 870 from the early 80's. I inherited the gun and have never actually fired it.

I own two .22 lr rifles (a Henry lever and a Marlin 60) and a .17 hmr bolt gun, so I'm thinking centerfire instead of rimfire. I have two AR's -- a Colt CSR and a Ruger SR556 -- both of which I'm happy with. And while I love getting out and plinking, I don't see myself getting into competition shooting, so I'm leaning away from the very high-end models.

I'm not averse to getting another bolt rifle, or even something on the AR10 platform (6.5 seems pretty popular these days). Honestly, I'm not sure what to get. Anyone got any suggestions?
 
I suggest you review the laws concerning straw man purchases. You don't want to save a few dollars on a gun and find you and your friend in trouble with the law.
 
as for straw purchases, I am only guessing that he could buy the gun for himself and then go to an FFL and do the back ground check to legally sell it to you. He can't buy the gun with your money and then just hand it to you. It has to go through an FFL and back ground check.
Like I said I am guessing at this so check your local laws before you do anything. I do understand private sales are ok but must include an FFL and back ground check.
 
OP, that sounds very much like a straw purchase. I'm going to shamelessly copy & paste part of one of Frank Ettin's posts on the matter:
Frank Ettin said:
Let me again lay out my explanation of what a straw purchase is. This reflects current law consistent with Abramski.

The actual offense, under the Gun Control Act of 1968, is violation of 18 USC 922(a)(6), making a false statement on the 4473 (specifically about who is the actual buyer), and has nothing to do with the ultimate recipient being a prohibited person.

See the ATF publication Federal Firearms Regulation Reference Guide, 2005, at page 165 (emphasis added):
15. STRAW PURCHASES

Questions have arisen concerning the lawfulness of firearms purchases from licensees by persons who use a "straw purchaser" (another person) to acquire the firearms. Specifically, the actual buyer uses the straw purchaser to execute the Form 4473 purporting to show that the straw purchaser is the actual purchaser of the firearm. In some instances, a straw purchaser is used because the actual purchaser is prohibited from acquiring the firearm. That is to say, the actual purchaser is a felon or is within one of the other prohibited categories of persons who may not lawfully acquire firearms or is a resident of a State other than that in which the licensee's business premises is located. Because of his or her disability, the person uses a straw purchaser who is not prohibited from purchasing a firearm from the licensee. In other instances, neither the straw purchaser nor the actual purchaser is prohibited from acquiring the firearm.

In both instances, the straw purchaser violates Federal law by making false statements on Form 4473 to the licensee with respect to the identity of the actual purchaser of the firearm, as well as the actual purchaser's residence address and date of birth. The actual purchaser who utilized the straw purchaser to acquire a firearm has unlawfully aided and abetted or caused the making of the false statements. The licensee selling the firearm under these circumstances also violates Federal law if the licensee is aware of the false statements on the form. It is immaterial that the actual purchaser and the straw purchaser are residents of the State in which the licensee's business premises is located, are not prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms, and could have lawfully purchased firearms...
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So, if --

  1. X says to Y, "Here's the money; buy that gun and then we'll do the transfer to me [when I get back to town, or whenever else].", or

  2. X says to Y, "Buy that gun and hold it for me; I'll buy from you when I get my next paycheck."
or anything similar, if Y then buys the gun, he is not the actual buyer. He is buying the gun as the agent of X, on his behalf; and X is legally the actual buyer. If Y claims on the 4473 that he is the actual buyer, he has lied and violated 18 USC 922(a)(6). His subsequently transferring the gun to X in full compliance with the law, does not erase his prior criminal act of lying on the 4473.

Some more examples --

  • If X takes his own money, buys the gun and gives the gun to someone else as a gift, free and clear without reimbursement of any kind, X is the actual purchaser; and it is not a straw purchase.

  • If X takes his money and buys the gun honestly intending to keep it for himself and later sells it to another person, X is the actual purchaser; and it is not a straw purchase.

  • If X takes his money and buys the gun intending to take it to the gun show next week to see if he might be able to sell it to someone at a profit, X is the actual purchaser; and it's not a straw purchase. He may, however have other problems if he manages to sell the gun at the gun show, and the transfer there isn't handled properly. He might also have problems if he does this sort of thing too frequently, and the ATF decides he's acting as a dealer without the necessary license.

  • If X takes his money and buys the gun with the understanding that he is going to transfer the gun to Y and that Y is going to reimburse him for it, X is not the actual purchaser. He is advancing X the money and buying the gun for and on behalf of Y, as Y's agent. So this would be an illegal straw purchase.

Whether or not a transaction is an unlawful straw purpose will often be a question of intent. But prosecutors in various situations can convince juries of intent, often from circumstantial evidence. A slip of the tongue, posting something on the Internet, tracks left by money transfers have all, in one way or another, and in various contexts, helped convince a jury of intent.

It would also be unlawful to buy a gun privately (without a 4473) for the purpose of transferring the gun to a prohibited person.
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Can you save enough to make it worth while doing it? I've never been thriugh that process so have no idea how it may go. But, as far as which one to buy, I'd buy one that looks good to me and feel's good in my hands!
 
I would buy the 10 hunter. Be careful of the aforementioned Straw man, but you can legally comply with the law and still make the purchase. You can comply, but have to tell your FFL exactly what you are doing.
 
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Why not a tactical something. Dress it out handily with want-a-be Sniper gadgetry. Caliber 22 or 30. Tweak it to hit the gongs at 300. Yes sir why not be envied by those benchrester's that day.
 
I suggest you review the laws concerning straw man purchases. You don't want to save a few dollars on a gun and find you and your friend in trouble with the law.
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If the "friend" never takes possession and does not fill out a 4473, I believe it falls outside of the definition(s).
A transfer from the receiving FFL directly to Carmike would likely be perfectly legal.




What Savage would I buy?
A Ruger.
 
Oh wow, I never even considered the legal implications....Thank you all for the reminder. I certainly had no intention to break any laws, and the thought didn't even arise because both he and I have our permits to purchase, conceal/carry, etc. Yikes.

The size of the discount was substantial -- something like 70% off retail, though that might depend on the precise model, and there are other factors (like availability, his "rank," etc.) that affect it. Either way, there's no reason to risk anything to save even two handfuls of dollars.
 
If the legal problems are taken care of then.

The Stevens Favorite. I wish everyone could have time with this classic. The reproduction is just as much fun as grampa's 100 year old original.

The Savage Varmint rifle in .204 Ruger. The 204 is just fun to shoot.

Savage makes a few turn key long range rifles. pick your cartridge and have fun.

Oh make sure this deal is ok with your friends employer. If it is the maybe the company can help iron out the legal difficulties.
 
I'd suggest your friend buy himself an MSR 10. It's likely after a certain period of time that he'll realize he doesn't care for it, after which he'll probably offer to sell it to you for the same price he paid.

Completely unrelated topic, but it's a shame that rules about straw purchases end up screwing over ordinary people who have no ill intentions.
 
the savage I bought was a 300 savage in a Remington classic 700, as I wanted a bolt and could not find a older Remington 722. the classic 700 fills the bill for a 300 savage for me. eastbank.
 
Thanks for the advice, guys, legal and otherwise. I got into this wonderful hobby a few years ago after inheriting a few guns from an uncle who passed away, and then going out hunting for the first time at the age of 32. Preparing for that hunt was the first time I had fired a gun.

So I'm a newbie in all things, though I do try to educate myself about all relevant laws. In this case, I didn't even think about the straw purchases. I'll talk to my friend to see what he suggests. He also gets a discount of about the same percentage from Bushnell, Weaver, RCBS, Blackhawk (probably won't have him buy me a suppressor, though! :), Hoppes, etc. All are owned by the parent company of his company.
 
I'd go with the LRP in 6.5 CM. Nice to have a very accurate rifle, especially since you have the hunting part covered.
 
I sold a Savage 11 Predator in .243 a few years ago to build a Remington 700 Varmint. Man I wish I'd never sold it. That gun would do 1 hole at 100yds with a 90grn NBT handload I had. Killed every deer I shot with it DRT too. The Remington has been a pain in the butt to work up a load for. One day it'll like the load 2 days later and 10-15 degree temp change it's not as good. Finally found a happy median but it won't shoot with that Savage.

Got a love hate relationship with Remington. Too much work to get one right out of the box on average. They're great when you do but it's a crap shoot. I just don't like Savages sloppy actions. Still have a 10 Precision Carbine and shoot it well. It's as accurate as can be too.
 
I just don't like Savages sloppy actions.
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That's my problem, as well.
I know they're good rifles.
I know they generally shoot very well.

But they feel cheap, the ergonomics don't work for me, and I find the action to be rather homely.
 
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