reynolds357
New member
Thats why I said "you cant shoot one out."
Which rounds are "hard" on barrels?
- Thread starter Clevinger
- Start date
I tend to shoot medium weight bullets, at reasonable powder charge weights, in varmint cartridges. One of my .22-250, Rem 700s had shot well over a thousand rounds with no apparent loss of accuracy. I used mostly 55 grain flat-based bullets in it. Flat-based bullets are seen to seal gasses behind the bullet better than boat-tails. Moderate loads of IMR 4895 was used for target rounds.
In the .243 Win or 6mm Rem, I stick to 80-90 grain bullets, but fire a combination of flat and boat-tail bullets, mostly at moderate loads, about two grains lower than maximum. This is a varmint-hunting cartridge to me, so round counts are about 100-150 per year.
At the range, I never let my barrels get so hot as to be uncomfortable to the touch. Most groups are 3 shots, except for the .223 Rem.
I have great demand for accuracy from all my rifles and won't keep centerfires that won't shoot better than 3/4 min, but never "shot out" a CF barrel.
In the .243 Win or 6mm Rem, I stick to 80-90 grain bullets, but fire a combination of flat and boat-tail bullets, mostly at moderate loads, about two grains lower than maximum. This is a varmint-hunting cartridge to me, so round counts are about 100-150 per year.
At the range, I never let my barrels get so hot as to be uncomfortable to the touch. Most groups are 3 shots, except for the .223 Rem.
I have great demand for accuracy from all my rifles and won't keep centerfires that won't shoot better than 3/4 min, but never "shot out" a CF barrel.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
.243 = 6mm; squared is 36. My pet load is 37.5 grains of 3031, so barrel life will approach 3,000.
.308/0.03937* = 7.82mm; squared is 61. My pet '06 loads use about 52 grains of 4064. 61/52=> 3,500.
Gee, that's lots of deer meat!
*I've rebuilt way too many foreign cars to ever forget that number! But use 0.040; it's easier to do in your head.
.308/0.03937* = 7.82mm; squared is 61. My pet '06 loads use about 52 grains of 4064. 61/52=> 3,500.
Gee, that's lots of deer meat!
*I've rebuilt way too many foreign cars to ever forget that number! But use 0.040; it's easier to do in your head.
Like others have stated they're many variables and considerations when predicting barrel life. I really like Bart's formula, just keep in mind it's just a baseline. Something to get you in the ball park. Fire rate, proper/improper maintenance, metallurgy all play a part in barrel life. These can add or subtract from barrel life and it's a case to case basis. Every rifle is different.
I use to worry about barrel life, actually to the point of not shooting some of my "barrel burners" as much as I wanted. Finally I wised up and started to enjoy my rifles. Don't let barrel life be THE deciding factor. For example if I was looking at a range toy/target rifle a .257 weatherby wouldn't be my first choice. But because it has a shorter barrel life than any other hunting rifle I own doesn't mean I'm not going to shoot as much as the others.
Honestly by time you need a new barrel you'll have spent way more in ammo wearing it out than you ever will replacing it. Also most aftermarket barrels are going to be of higher quality than factory tubes, so think of it as an eventual needed upgrade.
I use to worry about barrel life, actually to the point of not shooting some of my "barrel burners" as much as I wanted. Finally I wised up and started to enjoy my rifles. Don't let barrel life be THE deciding factor. For example if I was looking at a range toy/target rifle a .257 weatherby wouldn't be my first choice. But because it has a shorter barrel life than any other hunting rifle I own doesn't mean I'm not going to shoot as much as the others.
Honestly by time you need a new barrel you'll have spent way more in ammo wearing it out than you ever will replacing it. Also most aftermarket barrels are going to be of higher quality than factory tubes, so think of it as an eventual needed upgrade.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
.243/.03937 = 6.17mm. Squared = 38.
boondocker385
New member
I can only offer anecdotal evidence.... I have a REM 700 in .243 Winchester bought new in 1998 with 2054 rounds through it. it has always shot around 3/4" @ 100 yards if I do my part. I dumped a coyotoe at 260 yards (lasered and paced) yesterday and hit right where I was aiming.
Art, bore diameter of 6mm and .243 cartridges is about .236" or exactly 6mm; their groove diameters are that of the bullets used; .243" or 6.2mm. And the bore area is that of a circle the diameter of it; 3.1416 times the radius squared or bore diameter squared times .7854. The area of a 1 inch diameter circle is .7854 square inches; it's smaller than the area of a square 1 inch on each side.
Clevinger, .30-06 barrel life back in its early life was about 2000 rounds thanks to the highly erosive Hi Vel #2 powder (almost 20% nitroglycerine) that was popular then for reloading ammo used in M1903 and M1917 target rifles used by the best shots in competition as well as those based on the Winchester 54 actions with best quality barrels. When IMR4895 was used, it went up to about 2500 rounds as that's what top ranked competitors got with their .30-06 match rifles up through the mid 1960's when that cartridge gave way to the .308 Win. Hunters in this time frame got twice that barrel life as their conditions and standards basing it on were less stringent. Military barrels in M1903, M1917 and M1's got 3 to 4 times the barrel life; their conditions and standards were the least stringent.
I try to mention the conditions and standards for a given caliber's barrel life. Machine guns have a much shorter barrel life than that of a hunting rifle for the same cartridge. Rate of fire, if not too fast, has insignificant effect. Having worn out a few .308 Win barrels, their lives were all about the same. two thirds were shot at a rate of 10 shots in 60 seconds for about 40% of their life, 1 shot every minute or so for 20 to 30 shots the other 60% of thier lives. These barrels had the same life as others shot no faster than once per minute for 15 to 30 shot strings. Sierra Bullets has got the same barrel lifes across all their .308 Win. barrels testing their stuff for accuracy. They shoot 1 bullet every 10 seconds or less for ten shots, then repeat that test rate every 10 to 15 minutes for quality control tests on their bullets. The test groups for good lots of match bullets are all under 5/8 inch in the 200-yard indoor range. They also rebarreled those rail guns every 3000 rounds when quality control bullets shot about 3/4 inch. Their 30 caliber hunting bullets have less accuracy requirements than match ones and they shoot bigger groups in the same barrels as match ones do.
Clevinger, .30-06 barrel life back in its early life was about 2000 rounds thanks to the highly erosive Hi Vel #2 powder (almost 20% nitroglycerine) that was popular then for reloading ammo used in M1903 and M1917 target rifles used by the best shots in competition as well as those based on the Winchester 54 actions with best quality barrels. When IMR4895 was used, it went up to about 2500 rounds as that's what top ranked competitors got with their .30-06 match rifles up through the mid 1960's when that cartridge gave way to the .308 Win. Hunters in this time frame got twice that barrel life as their conditions and standards basing it on were less stringent. Military barrels in M1903, M1917 and M1's got 3 to 4 times the barrel life; their conditions and standards were the least stringent.
I try to mention the conditions and standards for a given caliber's barrel life. Machine guns have a much shorter barrel life than that of a hunting rifle for the same cartridge. Rate of fire, if not too fast, has insignificant effect. Having worn out a few .308 Win barrels, their lives were all about the same. two thirds were shot at a rate of 10 shots in 60 seconds for about 40% of their life, 1 shot every minute or so for 20 to 30 shots the other 60% of thier lives. These barrels had the same life as others shot no faster than once per minute for 15 to 30 shot strings. Sierra Bullets has got the same barrel lifes across all their .308 Win. barrels testing their stuff for accuracy. They shoot 1 bullet every 10 seconds or less for ten shots, then repeat that test rate every 10 to 15 minutes for quality control tests on their bullets. The test groups for good lots of match bullets are all under 5/8 inch in the 200-yard indoor range. They also rebarreled those rail guns every 3000 rounds when quality control bullets shot about 3/4 inch. Their 30 caliber hunting bullets have less accuracy requirements than match ones and they shoot bigger groups in the same barrels as match ones do.
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Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Okay, now it's clear (I think): The actual area of the bore, diameter across the lands, not the nominal area as defined by the bullet or grooves.
"What's the formula for the area of a circle?"
" Pi R Square."
"No, pie are round."
"What's the formula for the area of a circle?"
" Pi R Square."
"No, pie are round."
You guys are making me nervous. I have a 30-06 I am fond of, and when I sight it in I tend to shoot about 9-10 shots. Usually I shoot about 3 rounds in roughly 1-2 minutes, go check the target, and repeat for a total of about 10 rounds. All told it takes about 20 minutes, and the barrel does get kind of hot.
Did I cause damage? Or is that okay?
Did I cause damage? Or is that okay?
Clevinger, folks shot .30-06 rifles in ten-shot rapid fire matches one shot every 4 to 5 seconds in a minute. Didn't hurt the barrel at all. Arsenals testing ammo's accuracy shot 250 to 300 shots per group, one shot every 10 to 15 seconds. Barrels got too hot to touch without getting burned, but not not enough to hurt them. Accuracy was good for all of them.
So your shooting rate is not a problem.
So your shooting rate is not a problem.
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Clevinger, by the way you described shooting your 30/06 you should be absolutely fine.
Just keep in mind if the barrel is too hot to hold then your shooting too frequent and not letting the barrel cool enough between shots. This is detrimental to the overall barrel life. This time varies based on the outside diameter of the barrel. Meaning a bull barrel will be able to sustain fire for a longer period of time than a sporter weight hunting rifle barrel. One way I keep my barrels from overheating is bringing a couple rifles at a time to the range or just my centerfire and a rimfire. I will shoot a group with the centerfire be it 3 or 5 rounds then I'll keep the action open of that rifle and set it to the side. I'll then pick up my rimfire and shoot a couple of groups or just plink for a few minutes then I'll go back to the centerfire and shoot another group. This keeps me busy and having fun at the range and it prevents me from overheating my barrels ensuring I get the full barrel life from my rifle.
Like I said in my earlier post, don't worry too much about wearing out a barrel. By time you have shot that barrel out you'll have spent a couple thousand dollars in ammo so a new barrel will be a cheap investment to continue shooting. Besides most replacement barrels such as Bartlein, Brux, Rock Creek, Kreiger, Shilen, Lilja, etc... All are going to be a major improvement over the factory barrel, making shooting your 30/06 even more enjoyable than ever before.
Just keep in mind if the barrel is too hot to hold then your shooting too frequent and not letting the barrel cool enough between shots. This is detrimental to the overall barrel life. This time varies based on the outside diameter of the barrel. Meaning a bull barrel will be able to sustain fire for a longer period of time than a sporter weight hunting rifle barrel. One way I keep my barrels from overheating is bringing a couple rifles at a time to the range or just my centerfire and a rimfire. I will shoot a group with the centerfire be it 3 or 5 rounds then I'll keep the action open of that rifle and set it to the side. I'll then pick up my rimfire and shoot a couple of groups or just plink for a few minutes then I'll go back to the centerfire and shoot another group. This keeps me busy and having fun at the range and it prevents me from overheating my barrels ensuring I get the full barrel life from my rifle.
Like I said in my earlier post, don't worry too much about wearing out a barrel. By time you have shot that barrel out you'll have spent a couple thousand dollars in ammo so a new barrel will be a cheap investment to continue shooting. Besides most replacement barrels such as Bartlein, Brux, Rock Creek, Kreiger, Shilen, Lilja, etc... All are going to be a major improvement over the factory barrel, making shooting your 30/06 even more enjoyable than ever before.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
My '06 has some 4,000 rounds through it, mas o menos, since 1971. Maybe 500 to 1,000 of sub-max "plinkers". (I've never kept any sort of close count.) It's still a sub-MOA shooter.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Once I was done with tweaking it during the earliest days, I never ever had a five-shot group exceed 3/4" at 100 yards. That was with 150-grain Remington Bronze Points and with Sierra 150-, 165- and 180-grain bullets.
(Well, okay, I eventually had a copper buildup and a couple of lousy groups had me do a "real" cleaning, after which everything returned to normal.)
I'll exclude the plinkers, since the 169-grain gas checks weren't all that wondrous.
The rifle is a German-made Weatherby Mark V with a #2 profile 26" barrel. Special option; the regular Mark V was not available in '06. I installed a Canjar trigger, early on.
Having a bench rest in the back yard or on the front porch makes life easier.
I've had the same sort of deal with my little Sako Forester .243 carbine. I bought it the same year as the Wby. Initially, five-inch vertical strings; each shot one inch above the previous. Turned out they'd used a two-piece stock. Barrel bands and such nonsense. (Really pretty, though.) I cut the stock back and sweated off the front sight. Did my shim thing, under my uncle's supervision.
Average, ever since: 85-grain Sierra HPBTs, 3/4". 70-grain Hornady SPs, 5/8". But, only maybe a thousand rounds through it.
Damfino. All this stuff has always seemed real simple, to me. I started out listening to my Uncle Joe, back in 1950, and puzzled out a few things for myself. Just took it all for granted, I guess. I don't figure I'm any sort of guru in all this.
(Well, okay, I eventually had a copper buildup and a couple of lousy groups had me do a "real" cleaning, after which everything returned to normal.)
I'll exclude the plinkers, since the 169-grain gas checks weren't all that wondrous.
The rifle is a German-made Weatherby Mark V with a #2 profile 26" barrel. Special option; the regular Mark V was not available in '06. I installed a Canjar trigger, early on.
Having a bench rest in the back yard or on the front porch makes life easier.
I've had the same sort of deal with my little Sako Forester .243 carbine. I bought it the same year as the Wby. Initially, five-inch vertical strings; each shot one inch above the previous. Turned out they'd used a two-piece stock. Barrel bands and such nonsense. (Really pretty, though.) I cut the stock back and sweated off the front sight. Did my shim thing, under my uncle's supervision.
Average, ever since: 85-grain Sierra HPBTs, 3/4". 70-grain Hornady SPs, 5/8". But, only maybe a thousand rounds through it.
Damfino. All this stuff has always seemed real simple, to me. I started out listening to my Uncle Joe, back in 1950, and puzzled out a few things for myself. Just took it all for granted, I guess. I don't figure I'm any sort of guru in all this.