Which one?
- Thread starter hdm25
- Start date
j.s.parker
New member
hdm25; I just got a Rem 870 home defense a couple weeks ago. Fantastic shotgun! I love it. The other two are auto's I believe. For self defense pump shotguns are the best. More relieable I suppose. For hunting the remington's are alot cheaper than the Benelli. Good luck, j.s.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
My own preference would be an 870 with a ventilated rib. 12-gauge. If it didn't come with screw-in chokes, I'd get it set up for that. Otherwise, either modified choke or improved cylinder for most hunting. And you can shoot slugs through improved cylinder with little deformation...
You can buy a 20" cylinder-bore barrel for a home defense gun...and on and on and on...But don't get into that Rambo pistol-grip black plastic stuff...
FWIW, Art
You can buy a 20" cylinder-bore barrel for a home defense gun...and on and on and on...But don't get into that Rambo pistol-grip black plastic stuff...
FWIW, Art
One of the four 870s here at Casa McC was bought used by my father around 1956. I've put at least 3000 rounds through it myself, and it's now my HD shotgun. Absolutely reliable,durable and effective.I fully expect all the 870s here to outlast me by several generations.
Most Govt Agencies use 870s because they just keep working and working.
And,I've used them for hunting,from deer to woodcock to doves to geese,from squirrels to pheasants to rabbits to grouse. As near as I can recall, they've never let me down.
Those other two shotguns may be good also. But as long as there's 870s, that's what I'll be shooting.
Most Govt Agencies use 870s because they just keep working and working.
And,I've used them for hunting,from deer to woodcock to doves to geese,from squirrels to pheasants to rabbits to grouse. As near as I can recall, they've never let me down.
Those other two shotguns may be good also. But as long as there's 870s, that's what I'll be shooting.
This is an easy choice. Definately the 870. I grew up around those. My grandfather had an old 870 12' in which he passed on to my father. My father had an 870 20' also. So now, I have both! We also carry 870's here at work. I would and always go with a pump for HD IMHO. Less chance of misfire from a semi. I suggest going with "the old reliable" 870, while saving a bit of money as well.
JJC
JJC
Bennett Richards
New member
While the Mossbergs and Winchesters are a quality product... and Benelli's are GREAT, I would have to say the Remington 870. I had 2 wingmasters when I was a kid and used them for 20 years with not a problem.
When I felt I needed a HD gun I went with a Marine 870...
Still great... just keep going and going and going.........
Ben
When I felt I needed a HD gun I went with a Marine 870...
Still great... just keep going and going and going.........
Ben
Ned Roundtree
New member
I'll add another vote for the Rem 870. There was a Tacitical Shotgun Class at my club. Mostly Rem 870s by far, second Benelli's ,third a couple of Mossbergs. The only gun to fail was one of the Mossbergs.
I have a short segment on pump vs auto for defense use at http://www.members.tripod.com/~jth8260/shotgun.html
If you decide on a pump, there are some good reasons not to buy a Remington 870. My thoughts on this at http://www.members.tripod.com/~jth8260/870.html
I have a Benelli M1 Super 90 Tactical and I love it. My only complaints are: (1) the factory stock can be a bit long for shorter people; (2) the cost; and (3) you cannot weigh it down with too many accessories otherwise you will start getting failures to feed with light target (or tactical loads). My M1S90 has functioned perfectly with light trap loads and Federal tactical buckshot and slugs while wearing a Surefire Responder 617F.
HTH,
Justin
If you decide on a pump, there are some good reasons not to buy a Remington 870. My thoughts on this at http://www.members.tripod.com/~jth8260/870.html
I have a Benelli M1 Super 90 Tactical and I love it. My only complaints are: (1) the factory stock can be a bit long for shorter people; (2) the cost; and (3) you cannot weigh it down with too many accessories otherwise you will start getting failures to feed with light target (or tactical loads). My M1S90 has functioned perfectly with light trap loads and Federal tactical buckshot and slugs while wearing a Surefire Responder 617F.
HTH,
Justin
I've seen some acounts of problems with Mossberg pump actions on this forum. This puzzles me. I use 500\590s exclusively and have never had a problem. Any problem ever.
My current Mossy, wich I just put 20 shells through Sunday and toted with me all day friday, still works flawlessly. This gun has digested over 220 full charge shells without a hitch. It has gone through an additional 120 shells of Remmington High Velocity game loads. It works like a perfect machine.
My current Mossy, wich I just put 20 shells through Sunday and toted with me all day friday, still works flawlessly. This gun has digested over 220 full charge shells without a hitch. It has gone through an additional 120 shells of Remmington High Velocity game loads. It works like a perfect machine.
Justin, despite all the deficiencies you claim for the 870,whyinheck is it the weapon of choice for most serious types and darn near all govt agencies?
That dimple thing is a lawyer's idea, IMO, and deserves the same treatment most other lawyer's ideas get.
As near as I can tell,the sole reason the Mossberg was selected was that it has the only truly ambidextrous safety on the market, one of the specs the Military demanded.
And, the safety, slide release(Not bolt release) and so on haven't slowed me up too much yet, but I've only been shooting 870s since around 1958.Part of that time I was on the weapons squad,and the Hostage Recovery Team,with an 870 as my first line tool.For ten years,my duties also included instruction and I taught hundreds of rookies to shoot the 870.Other shotguns(S&W 3000,Win 1200) were tried and found wanting.
And my guess is that Scattergun Technologies does so much with the 870 is not a sweetheart deal with Remington,but the plain and simple fact that this piece is the one most folks want.
Nothing against the Mossberg, but I'll stick with the 870.
But when it's your butt on the line, you should make the choice yourself. If that's something besides the 870, so be it,and good luck.
That dimple thing is a lawyer's idea, IMO, and deserves the same treatment most other lawyer's ideas get.
As near as I can tell,the sole reason the Mossberg was selected was that it has the only truly ambidextrous safety on the market, one of the specs the Military demanded.
And, the safety, slide release(Not bolt release) and so on haven't slowed me up too much yet, but I've only been shooting 870s since around 1958.Part of that time I was on the weapons squad,and the Hostage Recovery Team,with an 870 as my first line tool.For ten years,my duties also included instruction and I taught hundreds of rookies to shoot the 870.Other shotguns(S&W 3000,Win 1200) were tried and found wanting.
And my guess is that Scattergun Technologies does so much with the 870 is not a sweetheart deal with Remington,but the plain and simple fact that this piece is the one most folks want.
Nothing against the Mossberg, but I'll stick with the 870.
But when it's your butt on the line, you should make the choice yourself. If that's something besides the 870, so be it,and good luck.
Justin, despite all the deficiencies you claim for the 870,whyinheck is it the weapon of choice for most serious types and darn near all govt agencies?
That dimple thing is a lawyer's idea, IMO, and deserves the same treatment most other lawyer's ideas get.
As near as I can tell,the sole reason the Mossberg was selected was that it has the only truly ambidextrous safety on the market, one of the specs the Military demanded.
And, the safety, slide release(Not bolt release) and so on haven't slowed me up too much yet, but I've only been shooting 870s since around 1958.Part of that time I was on the weapons squad,and the Hostage Recovery Team,with an 870 as my first line tool.For ten years,my duties also included instruction and I taught hundreds of rookies to shoot the 870.Other shotguns(S&W 3000,Win 1200) were tried and found wanting.
And my guess is that Scattergun Technologies does so much with the 870 is not a sweetheart deal with Remington,but the plain and simple fact that this piece is the one most folks want.
Nothing against the Mossberg, but I'll stick with the 870.
But when it's your butt on the line, you should make the choice yourself. If that's something besides the 870, so be it,and good luck.
That dimple thing is a lawyer's idea, IMO, and deserves the same treatment most other lawyer's ideas get.
As near as I can tell,the sole reason the Mossberg was selected was that it has the only truly ambidextrous safety on the market, one of the specs the Military demanded.
And, the safety, slide release(Not bolt release) and so on haven't slowed me up too much yet, but I've only been shooting 870s since around 1958.Part of that time I was on the weapons squad,and the Hostage Recovery Team,with an 870 as my first line tool.For ten years,my duties also included instruction and I taught hundreds of rookies to shoot the 870.Other shotguns(S&W 3000,Win 1200) were tried and found wanting.
And my guess is that Scattergun Technologies does so much with the 870 is not a sweetheart deal with Remington,but the plain and simple fact that this piece is the one most folks want.
Nothing against the Mossberg, but I'll stick with the 870.
But when it's your butt on the line, you should make the choice yourself. If that's something besides the 870, so be it,and good luck.
Dave,
Just because a ton of law enforcement agencies use the 870 does not make it the best tool for the job. A thousand lemmings following the first lemming off the cliff doesn't make the first lemming correct, right?
And remember that the 870 issued to law enforcement (the 870 Police) probably don't have those nice little dimples and lengthened slides that us regular folks have to deal with.
The dimples probably *are* some litigator's idea. I'm a corporate attorney so I don't have much insight into those things -- other than to say that a company that thinks it knows how many rounds I "need" for defense is not getting one red cent of my money.
Thanks for the correction on the slide release vs. bolt release, I'll make that change at the office tomorrow.
I'm glad you've had such success with the 870. One thing I didn't mention in my article was that one friend's 870 is having serious trouble with extraction and ejection. Fortunately, he's ditched the 870 for home defense and is now relying on two pre-ban AR15 rifles.
Justin
Just because a ton of law enforcement agencies use the 870 does not make it the best tool for the job. A thousand lemmings following the first lemming off the cliff doesn't make the first lemming correct, right?
And remember that the 870 issued to law enforcement (the 870 Police) probably don't have those nice little dimples and lengthened slides that us regular folks have to deal with.
The dimples probably *are* some litigator's idea. I'm a corporate attorney so I don't have much insight into those things -- other than to say that a company that thinks it knows how many rounds I "need" for defense is not getting one red cent of my money.
Thanks for the correction on the slide release vs. bolt release, I'll make that change at the office tomorrow.
I'm glad you've had such success with the 870. One thing I didn't mention in my article was that one friend's 870 is having serious trouble with extraction and ejection. Fortunately, he's ditched the 870 for home defense and is now relying on two pre-ban AR15 rifles.
Justin
Justin, your friend's 870 may have the front of the ejector busted off, I've seen one or two have this happen. The fix is simple, but requires the ministrations of either the factory or a competent smith. And this condition is quite rare. Most 870 glitches can be cured by cleaning and lubing.
Early 870s had the old corncob wood on the slide. The newer, larger,longer one is probably an attempt to heavy the piece up a little for smoother swing on birds and a little less kick. BTW, the first mag plug for the 870 was a solid steel one weighing over a lb.Still have mine, but it's not in a weapon.
And just why should Remington modify their shotgun to make it easier for the aftermarket companies?
And as for lemmings, it's more like the people with the most experience picking what they believe is the best tool.
Have a good'un....
Early 870s had the old corncob wood on the slide. The newer, larger,longer one is probably an attempt to heavy the piece up a little for smoother swing on birds and a little less kick. BTW, the first mag plug for the 870 was a solid steel one weighing over a lb.Still have mine, but it's not in a weapon.
And just why should Remington modify their shotgun to make it easier for the aftermarket companies?
And as for lemmings, it's more like the people with the most experience picking what they believe is the best tool.
Have a good'un....
I posted a pro Moss anti Remington subject some time ago. I now own an 870 and sold the Mossberg! Not that I felt one was better than the other for HD. I liked the 870 better as a hunting weapon and didn't want a mixed manual of arms in case TSHIF.
Regarding the dimples--not really sure if it is designed to limit capacity or not. It seems to me that the dimples serve to keep the mag spring retainer from flying away when someone removes the mag cap without thinking of capturing the retainer. I may be wrong (it happens time to time). I have a Choate extension but haven't installed in yet.
IMO there are so many good choice--hard to go wrong...
Regarding the dimples--not really sure if it is designed to limit capacity or not. It seems to me that the dimples serve to keep the mag spring retainer from flying away when someone removes the mag cap without thinking of capturing the retainer. I may be wrong (it happens time to time). I have a Choate extension but haven't installed in yet.
IMO there are so many good choice--hard to go wrong...
Dave,
Remington has no obligation to the aftermarket companies. Instead, it has an obligation to their customers (i.e., you and me) if they want to stay financially solvent.
If the customers start demanding compatibility with certain aftermarket accessories, like the magazine extension and Sidesaddle (both of which are almost "standard equipment" on Scattergun Technology shotguns) then they'd be wise to listen to the customers. Now that you mention it, Remington may be still caught in that dusty old business strategy of "the customer will buy what we sell" -- which the big three car manufacturers in Detroit espoused until they started getting slammed in the 1980s. A much better (and more modern) idea would be "we'll sell what the customers want."
If they don't change, their customers may walk away and patronize an outfit which is more in tune with the new way of doing business -- one who is more willing to accomodate the needs of the customer (e.g., Mossberg, Winchester, Benelli, Beretta, etc.).
Thanks for the fix-it tip. I'll pass it along to my buddy -- he mothballed his shotgun but I know he wants to get it back into action. Three Gun season is coming up soon -- not only that, he's got nothing to use to break clay birds.
Justin
[This message has been edited by jthuang (edited February 22, 2000).]
Remington has no obligation to the aftermarket companies. Instead, it has an obligation to their customers (i.e., you and me) if they want to stay financially solvent.
If the customers start demanding compatibility with certain aftermarket accessories, like the magazine extension and Sidesaddle (both of which are almost "standard equipment" on Scattergun Technology shotguns) then they'd be wise to listen to the customers. Now that you mention it, Remington may be still caught in that dusty old business strategy of "the customer will buy what we sell" -- which the big three car manufacturers in Detroit espoused until they started getting slammed in the 1980s. A much better (and more modern) idea would be "we'll sell what the customers want."
If they don't change, their customers may walk away and patronize an outfit which is more in tune with the new way of doing business -- one who is more willing to accomodate the needs of the customer (e.g., Mossberg, Winchester, Benelli, Beretta, etc.).
Thanks for the fix-it tip. I'll pass it along to my buddy -- he mothballed his shotgun but I know he wants to get it back into action. Three Gun season is coming up soon -- not only that, he's got nothing to use to break clay birds.
Justin
[This message has been edited by jthuang (edited February 22, 2000).]
For every Scattergun T 870 out there, Justin,or even home tweaked 870s like mine, there's probably 100 stock guns used by their owners for hunting, clays,HD and whatever else.
A stock 870 with zero bellsnwhistles is still a weapon of tremendous capabilities in trained and competent hands. The 20 ga 870 I picked up for the kids to learn on is absolutely stock, and I would not regard msyelf as unarmed with it.My kids are not the only third generation 870 shooters I know.
Maybe Remington is missing the boat on after market compatibility, but I doubt it's showing much on their bottom line.
BTW, except for that 20 ga,all the 870s here were bought used,and before someone thought up that dimple thing. I might not be so tolerant if I had to deal with it(G)...
A stock 870 with zero bellsnwhistles is still a weapon of tremendous capabilities in trained and competent hands. The 20 ga 870 I picked up for the kids to learn on is absolutely stock, and I would not regard msyelf as unarmed with it.My kids are not the only third generation 870 shooters I know.
Maybe Remington is missing the boat on after market compatibility, but I doubt it's showing much on their bottom line.
BTW, except for that 20 ga,all the 870s here were bought used,and before someone thought up that dimple thing. I might not be so tolerant if I had to deal with it(G)...
Dave,
It is probably true that there are hundreds of "stock" Remington 870s out there being used for clays and hunting. However, that is not the issue, since my comparison of the 870 and 500 was for defense purposes.
The Remington 870 notwithstanding, any weapon in "trained and competent" hands is deadly, even a NAA mini-revolver in .22 Short. But in general, your average gun owner does not have training, and competence (in defensive terms) is questionable. While equipment cannot take the place of training, it certainly allows for a greater margin of error for those untrained and/or non-competent individuals -- more shots in the tube and more rounds on the receiver.
I mean if out of 70 (?) million gun owners in the United States, less than three million are NRA members (around 4% of gun owners) are conscientious enough to spend $35 a year to protect their rights, what are the chances that the average gun owner will spend the $300-500 odd dollars on a defensive shotgun course, as to be trained and competent to use his or her shotgun for defense purposes, thus obviating the need for any defensive modifications?
Remington's magazine dimples and shortened slide policy are enough for me to stick them in the same category as Colt's Manufacturing and Sturm, Ruger & Co. I'm voting with my dollars so all gun owners don't have to be saddled with stupid PC modifications that are nothing more than solutions to non-existent problems.
And from an opportunity cost theory, each and every defense pump gun sold by Mossberg, Winchester, Ithaca Gun and whoever else is affecting Remington's bottom line. If Remington truly had the better product for the money, not so many people would be purchasing defense pump guns from those manufacturers.
But on a brighter note, I am going to spring for a Dremel tool to get rid of those stupid dimples in my dad's 870. Then next Chrismas, gift buying will be easy. I can see him with a ten round magazine tube extension now. You probably thought I bought him that shotgun out of the goodness of my heart but the way I saw it, I bought him a gun one year and then I figured I would have gifts for the successive years made -- a Sidesaddle here, a Giles tactical sling there, a magazine tube extension ....
This is rapidly getting off topic, so please feel free to e-mail me at jthuang@rssm.com or jthuang@rcn.com. Thanks,
Justin
It is probably true that there are hundreds of "stock" Remington 870s out there being used for clays and hunting. However, that is not the issue, since my comparison of the 870 and 500 was for defense purposes.
The Remington 870 notwithstanding, any weapon in "trained and competent" hands is deadly, even a NAA mini-revolver in .22 Short. But in general, your average gun owner does not have training, and competence (in defensive terms) is questionable. While equipment cannot take the place of training, it certainly allows for a greater margin of error for those untrained and/or non-competent individuals -- more shots in the tube and more rounds on the receiver.
I mean if out of 70 (?) million gun owners in the United States, less than three million are NRA members (around 4% of gun owners) are conscientious enough to spend $35 a year to protect their rights, what are the chances that the average gun owner will spend the $300-500 odd dollars on a defensive shotgun course, as to be trained and competent to use his or her shotgun for defense purposes, thus obviating the need for any defensive modifications?
Remington's magazine dimples and shortened slide policy are enough for me to stick them in the same category as Colt's Manufacturing and Sturm, Ruger & Co. I'm voting with my dollars so all gun owners don't have to be saddled with stupid PC modifications that are nothing more than solutions to non-existent problems.
And from an opportunity cost theory, each and every defense pump gun sold by Mossberg, Winchester, Ithaca Gun and whoever else is affecting Remington's bottom line. If Remington truly had the better product for the money, not so many people would be purchasing defense pump guns from those manufacturers.
But on a brighter note, I am going to spring for a Dremel tool to get rid of those stupid dimples in my dad's 870. Then next Chrismas, gift buying will be easy. I can see him with a ten round magazine tube extension now.
You probably thought I bought him that shotgun out of the goodness of my heart but the way I saw it, I bought him a gun one year and then I figured I would have gifts for the successive years made -- a Sidesaddle here, a Giles tactical sling there, a magazine tube extension ....This is rapidly getting off topic, so please feel free to e-mail me at jthuang@rssm.com or jthuang@rcn.com. Thanks,
Justin