Which one, USP .45, Sig 220, or *&* 4506?

I have a little experience with all three of them. Of those three,
I own a 4506, and have owned a USP 45. The SIG 220 I have shot
quite a bit.

Of those three, I think that it would boil down the the SIG or the Smith & Wesson, if it was me buying. That said;

1) S&W pros:
1) Stainless steel construction (re. rust-resistant)
2) Will eat anything you shove in the magazine.
3) Very, very good trigger, although a little heavy,
but nothing you won't get used to.
4) Built like a TANK!!
cons:
1) Heavy (although the weight soaks up recoil nicely)
2) Bore axis is higher and takes a little getting used to.

2) SIG pros:
1) Finished nicely.
2) Natural pointability.
cons:
1) Pricey.
2) I don't know if everyone has seen this, but it seems
as though the '220's I've fired were finicky about
ammo. These were from various incarnations, and
included a European-heal magazine release type,
a BDA, and a standard, early 90's '220. Each one
burped with different types of ammo, but not the
same kinds. Anyone?
3) No personal experience with them, but I've heard
lousy things about their customer service dept.

3) H&K pros:
1) Has a 10-round mag, if that is an issue to you, vs. an
8-rounder for the Smith and a seven-rounder for the
SIG.
2) Tough and well-built.
cons:
1) Trigger is abysmal.
2) I thought it had a lot of muzzle flip, too, but that seems
different for everyone.
3) I don't really know if this is true, but I also understand
that the USP has a barrel with rifling along the same
lines as the Glock, in that you have to be careful
about not firing any lead ammo in them.

My two cents. In the end, try them out and get the one you like.

ANM
 
Which .45???

Yes, it seem the S&W bashers are out again. Misappropriating their anger (well-placed) in the politics of the aggreement signed with the Feds, and taking it out on the product, which is inanimate and didn't sign a thing.

With that said, I own SIG "P" series weapons and a S&W 4506. I think both are excellent makes from quality manufacturers. Allow me to list some of the things I have discovered in my shooting experiences:

1. Both the SIG product and the Smith product have been totally reliable from the get go.

2. Accuracy has been superb from the outset. (gotta be careful here as ergonomics palce a HUGE role here).

3. While many put down the S&W 3rd gen. line of pistols, I have owned both 9mm and .45. Quality from the box has been first rate.

4. Yes the S&W is heavy, but not so that it is impossible to carry. A good shulder rig (i.e. Galco miami classic) is an excellent way to hide the big handgun.

5. Heck, even my wife likes the .45!!!

6. Having fired both 220 and 4506, I prefer the weight of the Smith personally. The different bore axis issues must be overcome with any gun, as they are all differnet.


Finally consider the climate in which you live, the SS of the S&W may be a + as well.
 
To each his own. I actually LIKE the HK .45's ergos and DAO trigger, even though that apparently makes me a minority. In fact, I'm seriously thinking about a USP 9mm compact to go along with the .45 and supplement my Glock.

Tried a SIG 220 rental out once. FTFed. Maybe it was dirty, but it wasn't a good first experience.

But don't listen to me: shoot all three before you buy!

- pdmoderator
 
For me its all about ergonomics.

If you are going to carry it, I'd say the Sig.

Sig makes a really nice pistol. It feels a LOT smaller than the USP (which to me feels like a brick made of legos.) You can't shoot it cocked and locked and as with any da/sa pistol its a less accurate on your first long trigger pull.

Even if I didn't have a problem with SW politics, the 4506 is an awfully BIG gun for a single stack 45. I don't like slide mounted controls. Sights are nice though.
 
Which .45

First off S&W's have a magazine Drop Safety. That's just a bad idea for a weapon that may be used in combat. That and their bending over and spreading for the Brady crowd make them a non-option (for me). :barf:

I own 2 H&K's and have no issues with the trigger. I'm amazed that people speak about the H&K triggers while failing to mention that Sigs have some of the worst double action triggers on the planet, long and heavy. That said, other than the poor trigger on the Sigs' they're good weapons.

Just my $.02
 
I have carried Smith .45s for 5 years, between the 4566, 4506 and a 457. My first choice is the 4506. Out of countless rounds, I have had one problem, the decocker breaking. This was after several thousand rounds, and the gun was used when it was issued to me. Easy on recoil, good trigger, basically a combat weapon. Accuracy wise, it will keep up with the good guns (I base this on a shooter who has been in the top 3 in our state's Governer's 20 for a long time).
Yeah, it weighs a metric ton, but handles well when used as an impact weapon.
I would still vote for the Sig, but HK doesn't get my vote. Feels odd in my hands, plus their customer service turned me off.
 
The Sig's trigger is no prize.

For me, the difference would be that the USP can be carried cocked and locked, which means I'd never need to worry about the lousy DA pull with either gun. You can also carry DA/SA just like the Sig, or DA/SA with safety, etc., all in one pistol.

If you don't care about lousy DA pull and don't want any manual safety, the Sig wins. If both those things aren't the case, the HK wins.
 
I find it strange that so many people have such a hard time with the H&K DA trigger.

Seems to me it would be a non-issue as the gun would most likely be carried cocked and locked (would anyone carry it decocked? If so why?). The SA trigger on mine is more than adequate.

Regardless of the condition it is carried in the DA triggers on my H&Ks aren't detrimental to my shooting. Mine have smoothed out since I first got them and I really don't see that they are a problem at all.

They must be decent as I shoot my H&Ks better than all my other firearms (Kimbers, Berettas, CZ, Rugers, etc.). It really isn't close. That tells me that the trigger really isn't a hindrance since several of my other handguns have much better triggers.

Some of the cons that have been listed for the H&K are a little overblown in my opinion.

For me the pros with the H&K are:

Very good accuracy (I've fired two friends SIGs and they weren't near my H&Ks accuracy-wise, I do have much more trigger time with the H&Ks, but those were my results)

Very reliable (I'll take flak for saying it, but I'd put money on the H&K to be the most reliable of these three).

Higher magazine capacity.

Cocked and locked option as well as more than nine variants (basically you can configure an H&K to and action you prefer, including 100% ambidextrous controls).

Polygonal rifling has been listed as a con, I say its a pro. You can shoot lead in them, just have to be strict about your cleaning routine. Longer barrel life, higher velocities are pros in my book.

Say what you want about H&Ks customer service (if you've dealt with them. . . I find most comments are regurgitated rumors). I've dealt with them several times and have a friend who dealt with them twice. Each time we contacted them we were treated as well as we've been treated by any other manufacturer. Service was quick and efficient.

H&Ks have tremendous upside and I really feel you can't go wrong with them. That being said, you really should buy the one you feel the most comfortable with. I really couldn't bring myself to like the SIGs controls.

You really can't go wrong, unless you buy what everyone tells you to buy just because they tell you it's the best.

Shake
 
Sigh.

I carry a 4506 on duty. Here is my opinion:

PRO:

Reliability. The gun will eat anything. I have had one FTF that was not a direct result of something other than the gun. It is reliable. Period.

It is combat accurate (if you miss, its you, not the weapon).

It is built like a tank. I'm many thousands of rounds into this pistol and its solid as a rock.

CON:

It has the ergonomics of a tank. The gun is clunky with a capital CLUNK. Falconer fired my 4506 and he described it as ergonomically inferior to a Desert Eagle. :eek: I believe he might have a point.

It is heavy, which does soak up recoil, but it still manages to have a bit of muzzle flip (as has been mentioned).

The trigger sucks in DA. I mean, we are talking really long, hard and gritty. Load a duffle bag full of cinderblocks and drag it down a mile long dirt road, and you will get an idea of what the DA trigger pull is like. The SA pull is crisp, but still a tad heavy.

You cannot, in any way, describe this gun as 'a natural pointer.'

YMMV,
Mike
 
4506 is still a top choice!!!

Coronach said:
It has the ergonomics of a tank. The gun is clunky with a capital CLUNK. Falconer fired my 4506 and he described it as ergonomically inferior to a Desert Eagle. I believe he might have a point.
Click to expand...

There are so many grip options for the 4506 (i.e. straight backstrap, curved backstrap, replacement grips from Hogue, etc.) the whole ergonomics issue can be addressed, if not completely corrected.

It is heavy, which does soak up recoil, but it still manages to have a bit of muzzle flip (as has been mentioned).
Click to expand...

Yes the 4506 is a tad weighty, especially when compared to aluminum framed guns and "tupperware", but when comparing to others like the P220SST and the S&W 5906 or 4006, the weight is comparable when considering size. I have carried my 4506 mexican style, on a belt holster, and in a shoulder rig...just as easy to conceal as a P220 sized gun. I ain't no giant either.

The trigger sucks in DA. I mean, we are talking really long, hard and gritty. Load a duffle bag full of cinderblocks and drag it down a mile long dirt road, and you will get an idea of what the DA trigger pull is like. The SA pull is crisp, but still a tad heavy.
Click to expand...

The trigger from my NIB 4506 was excellent in both DA and SA. Maybe I'm just not comparing to SA all the time. I have never had a problem with DA/SA guns either. If the trigger is bad on any S&W, it should be sent back for repairs, PERIOD.

You cannot, in any way, describe this gun as 'a natural pointer.'
Click to expand...

When I replaced straight backed grip for a curved grip from S&W, it certainly became a natural pointer for me. Again, in this area, like ergonomics, it is a personal matter. Some guys swear the Glock is a natural pointer for them. For me...YUCK...Glock...phewy...gross!!!

The Smith and Wesson 4506 or 4506-1 are excellent weapons and NIB can still be found. If you shoot one and find you like it, do not hesitate to buy it.
 
I assume we are trying to pick a DA .45 here???:D

I have owned all three...now I only own 1...the Sig P220 (circa 1986 model)

I would put them in this order:

1) Sig P220:cool:

2) S&W 4506:)

3) H&K USP:barf:
 
One of my best friends just recently bought a P220ST. Nice gun, but dang heavy. I mean really heavy. If I was looking for a semi-auto to pistol whip somebody with after it ran dry this would be my first choice, followed by the S&W 4506.:D
 
Goodness, if you can get a USP .45 for ~$600, GET IT! Even if it was the normal price ($700 for HE; $740+ for SS), I'd pick it every time. IMO, the USP .45 is the best .45 out there.
 
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