Which mid sized 380 carry pistol?
- Thread starter zanemoseley
- Start date
ammo.crafter
New member
PK380
Nice small package and easy to handle with very manageable recoil.
Only con is that it shoots low and left in mine.
I have found this to be fairly common with others who have this gun.
Function and "feel" is very good for a small hand.
Nice small package and easy to handle with very manageable recoil.
Only con is that it shoots low and left in mine.
I have found this to be fairly common with others who have this gun.
Function and "feel" is very good for a small hand.
Beachcomber
New member
Sig P232 SL (Stainless), Walther PPK/s or PP, and Beretta Mod. 84 (Cheetah) are what I own for .380's. If I had to pick one for EDC I would go with the Sig P232 SL for ease of handling, larger sights and fairly light & smooth double action trigger pull.
I am going to go against the grain- both of the responders and the question.
Get more range time and ammo, and continue with a 9mm. Maybe try a S&W M&P 9 compact [or shield]. Try to rent them.
PLEASE: shoot your wife's Glock and a .380 on the same range outing, back-to-back.
It has been my experience that the .380 has a recoil that is no better than a compact 9mm.
I fired a Walther PPK and a Kahr K9 on the same trip. No question- the Walther was harsher in the hand, moved more, and hurt more. The Kahr was smoother and less kick, weirdly enough.
I have more recently fired a Bersa Firestorm [Thunder .380, that those of us in California CAN get] and a S&W M&P 9c. No question- the M&P 9c was smoother and felt like it kicked less.
The problem is that the .380 is a blowback action [minus Sig P238, or Colt Mustang, or others I don't know], which means no barrel unlocking to decrease the velocity, which seems to mean a harsher action.
A .22 feels great, when compared to anything. Less flinch, less kick, faster recovery.
Maybe you should invest in a .22 for her to work on her fundamentals, and then practice more with her Glock.
In the interest of openness, I sold my Kahr K9 [and regret it], have a S&W M&P 9c, and a Bersa Firestorm in .380.
I like the Bersa. It is fun to shoot, feeds well [round nose] and is cheap [but not the ammo].
However, I'd take the M&P 9c for self defense any day. It is about the same size as the Glock you list, has more stopping power than the .380 round, and feels better in my hands than any .380 handgun I've shot.
Someone who doesn't shoot much will have trouble scoring well with most centerfire handguns, in my opinion.
Good luck with your choices. But I'd at least try a .380acp handgun before buying one. You may decide to skip the .380 all together.
Get more range time and ammo, and continue with a 9mm. Maybe try a S&W M&P 9 compact [or shield]. Try to rent them.
PLEASE: shoot your wife's Glock and a .380 on the same range outing, back-to-back.
It has been my experience that the .380 has a recoil that is no better than a compact 9mm.
I fired a Walther PPK and a Kahr K9 on the same trip. No question- the Walther was harsher in the hand, moved more, and hurt more. The Kahr was smoother and less kick, weirdly enough.
I have more recently fired a Bersa Firestorm [Thunder .380, that those of us in California CAN get] and a S&W M&P 9c. No question- the M&P 9c was smoother and felt like it kicked less.
The problem is that the .380 is a blowback action [minus Sig P238, or Colt Mustang, or others I don't know], which means no barrel unlocking to decrease the velocity, which seems to mean a harsher action.
A .22 feels great, when compared to anything. Less flinch, less kick, faster recovery.
Maybe you should invest in a .22 for her to work on her fundamentals, and then practice more with her Glock.
In the interest of openness, I sold my Kahr K9 [and regret it], have a S&W M&P 9c, and a Bersa Firestorm in .380.
I like the Bersa. It is fun to shoot, feeds well [round nose] and is cheap [but not the ammo].
However, I'd take the M&P 9c for self defense any day. It is about the same size as the Glock you list, has more stopping power than the .380 round, and feels better in my hands than any .380 handgun I've shot.
Someone who doesn't shoot much will have trouble scoring well with most centerfire handguns, in my opinion.
Good luck with your choices. But I'd at least try a .380acp handgun before buying one. You may decide to skip the .380 all together.
zanemoseley
New member
Typically I agree if you want to become proficient shooting CF handguns you need practice, practice, practice. Problem is if you have a woman that isn't into it as a hobby then even if you practice enough to become proficient with a compact 9mm what happens when you start carrying but quit practicing? After a couple years you'll go close to where you started. IMO if you aren't good with a 9mm or whatever round from the get go unless you plan to practice on some sort of regular occasion then you're going to regress to your original state somewhat. Its easy to say you'll practice but I'm sure many don't.
I also agree that a lot of smaller blowback 380's have the recoil of a compact 9mm. My new LCP has some snap to it but as a seasoned shooter can handle it quite well. A medium sized frame with a locked breech design should be beneficial in reducing recoil.
I also agree that a lot of smaller blowback 380's have the recoil of a compact 9mm. My new LCP has some snap to it but as a seasoned shooter can handle it quite well. A medium sized frame with a locked breech design should be beneficial in reducing recoil.
Zanemosely,
I agree with everything you say. I live in California, so my access is different [read: WORSE] than most of the country.
I don't know of a locked-breech .380 I could buy, other than something C&R [Colt 1903?] or a Sig P238. Is the Ruger LCP a locked breech? I tried it, and it was even harsher than my Bersa Firestorm. I can't imagine the Sig P238 being any better [very light gun, equals less mass and more 'motion'] Everything else I see here is a blowback design.
IF I only could have a blowback design in .380 [no locked breech], I'd have the prospective new owner try both blowback .380 and compact 9mm, without telling them which is going to be easier, and let them tell me what felt better.
All I was getting at was that a blowback .380 doesn't seem like an obviously easier handgun to shoot, from my [admittedly limited] experiences.
There IS one element that does make the .380 blowback seem better, but it is not about the shooting- it is about the loading/clearing. Frequently, it seems the compact 9mm [and larger] have stiff springs that make clearance drills hard. A blowback .380 might be a little better there.
On the other hand, I also find a full-size 9mm to be easier to pull the slide on than a compact model- if size isn't the most important concern.
What they use is better than what they won't use.
I am not pushing the whole 'caliber war' aspect of the rounds. I am only describing MY perception of the harshness of the .380 from a PPK and Bersa, compared to a Kahr K9 or S&W M&P 9c. Others' impressions will vary.
Whatever you decide on, I give you kudos for getting your wife more involved.
My wife went to the range with me once- about 6 years ago. Ruger 22/45 handgun and Marlin 39a. She said she really enjoyed it and wants to do it again, but has never been able to 'make the time' to do it since then.
I casually bring it up about once a year, so that I don't push and she feels she is included, but it is obvious she won't do it any more.
Kudos to you for being able to get your wife out more!
I agree with everything you say. I live in California, so my access is different [read: WORSE] than most of the country.
I don't know of a locked-breech .380 I could buy, other than something C&R [Colt 1903?] or a Sig P238. Is the Ruger LCP a locked breech? I tried it, and it was even harsher than my Bersa Firestorm. I can't imagine the Sig P238 being any better [very light gun, equals less mass and more 'motion'] Everything else I see here is a blowback design.
IF I only could have a blowback design in .380 [no locked breech], I'd have the prospective new owner try both blowback .380 and compact 9mm, without telling them which is going to be easier, and let them tell me what felt better.
All I was getting at was that a blowback .380 doesn't seem like an obviously easier handgun to shoot, from my [admittedly limited] experiences.
There IS one element that does make the .380 blowback seem better, but it is not about the shooting- it is about the loading/clearing. Frequently, it seems the compact 9mm [and larger] have stiff springs that make clearance drills hard. A blowback .380 might be a little better there.
On the other hand, I also find a full-size 9mm to be easier to pull the slide on than a compact model- if size isn't the most important concern.
What they use is better than what they won't use.
I am not pushing the whole 'caliber war' aspect of the rounds. I am only describing MY perception of the harshness of the .380 from a PPK and Bersa, compared to a Kahr K9 or S&W M&P 9c. Others' impressions will vary.
Whatever you decide on, I give you kudos for getting your wife more involved.
My wife went to the range with me once- about 6 years ago. Ruger 22/45 handgun and Marlin 39a. She said she really enjoyed it and wants to do it again, but has never been able to 'make the time' to do it since then.
I casually bring it up about once a year, so that I don't push and she feels she is included, but it is obvious she won't do it any more.
Kudos to you for being able to get your wife out more!
Darkstar888
New member
The pk380 is just ok. Nothing special about it. It's also not a true Walther in that it is not made in Germany but by Umarex. The non German Walthers are really hit or miss and nowhere near the quality of the German ones. That's why if I was getting a Walther it would be the PPS M2 or P99c (my EDC). If I was forced to go .380 I would get a Beretta 85, Sig 232, Sig 238, or Bersa Thunder if I couldn't afford the others. No interest in Glock 42, Keltec P3AT or Ruger LCP. Too boring for me.
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Btw, i have held the Beretta offerings and like them alot. They feel good, point well and look good. I like the fact that the decocker/safety leaves the hammer where the trigger's first 1/4 or 1/3 of travel has no weight. If you dry fire it, the da pull is long. If you decock it then pull in da, the da pull has no weight for that distance.
For those with shortish fingers, that is nice!
I like it alot, but not enough to buy, due to listed recoil characteristics.
I just bought a BHP in 9mm for less than the 84 or 85 series Beretta.
And my M&P9c is about the same size.
Beautiful, balanced, premium quality .380.
But a Bersa, 3 spare mags and 1000 rounds of ammo are cheaper and met my needs- so that was my choice.
For those with shortish fingers, that is nice!
I like it alot, but not enough to buy, due to listed recoil characteristics.
I just bought a BHP in 9mm for less than the 84 or 85 series Beretta.
And my M&P9c is about the same size.
Beautiful, balanced, premium quality .380.
But a Bersa, 3 spare mags and 1000 rounds of ammo are cheaper and met my needs- so that was my choice.
There are a lot of Israeli surplus 84's on gunbroker at attractive prices...mainly Cole Distributing.
I bought an 84F from them 2 years ago, and it looked almost new... $279.
It is a fantastic pistol. I bought it more to try out, and eventually trade. But after shooting it, it's not going anywhere..I love it!
I don't find recoil objectionable. The slide does take a good hard pull to rack, though. I have it loaded with Underwood +P xtp's, which have proven very accurate for me.
I bought an 84F from them 2 years ago, and it looked almost new... $279.
It is a fantastic pistol. I bought it more to try out, and eventually trade. But after shooting it, it's not going anywhere..I love it!
I don't find recoil objectionable. The slide does take a good hard pull to rack, though. I have it loaded with Underwood +P xtp's, which have proven very accurate for me.
t4terrific
New member
The PK380 is great. The other great options would be Glock 42, Sig p230/232, and Walther PPK.
The PPK is great, but reliability can be an issue.
The others are accurate, light recoiling and. Not too big, or too small.
The PPK is great, but reliability can be an issue.
The others are accurate, light recoiling and. Not too big, or too small.
Darkstar888
New member
The PPK in .380 is pretty rough on recoil. It is a sweet shooter in .32 though. This is coming from a Walther fanboy and I line the look of the PPK.
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I like kahr alot, carry one every day but as mentioned the slide can be pretty hard to rack, and that coming from a guy whos 6'3" and blue collar
Also the slide is best closed by depressing the slide release, they can hang up if the shooter manually pulls and releases but slightly short strokes the slide.
And theres the triggers. You love em or hate em.
They're......nuanced.......
Also the slide is best closed by depressing the slide release, they can hang up if the shooter manually pulls and releases but slightly short strokes the slide.
And theres the triggers. You love em or hate em.
They're......nuanced.......
I have at least thirty .380 pistols of all sizes and actions...my favorites are also those with light recoil, good sights and easy to handle and conceal: Sig P 238, Glock 42, Kimber Micro are probably the best to meet my criteria, however a larger pistol (mid sized 380) is my Beretta 84BB...or to move to 9x18 caliber the Makarov which is plentiful today and relatively inexpensive ( but heavier and a little more recoil). The larger .380's will not necessarily be easier for your wife to handle and fire.
Have her shoot a G 42 as it is probably the best and easiest shooter for often or occasional shooters.
Have her shoot a G 42 as it is probably the best and easiest shooter for often or occasional shooters.
Cousin Pat
New member
Beretta Cheetah
Try racking the slide on the Beretta -- some spring -- it was enough of a negative as I got older that I sold it (for Kahr P380) which has a browning-type action and is easy to rack...
Try racking the slide on the Beretta -- some spring -- it was enough of a negative as I got older that I sold it (for Kahr P380) which has a browning-type action and is easy to rack...
This is a no-brainer. If she is already a Glock girl, stay with the format she is comfortable with. The G42 is a great little gun that handles just like any full size Glock. I would also let here try the 43 in 9mm which is very comparable. Why retrain with something that might require manipulating a safety or a non shooter friendly point of aim.
carguychris
New member
My experience with the reliability of the two is the opposite of what you describe.t4terrific said:
That said, one issue with the PPK is that many of the less-expensive examples in circulation are U.S.-made Interarms pistols, which do have a reputation for being a mixed bag in terms of reliability. Some are very good, but others not so much, and factory service ceased to exist 15 years ago.
The German and/or French PPKs are very good, but collector values have climbed beyond what I consider appropriate for a carry gun.I'm not a fan of the PK380. On the plus side, it has a really comfy grip, nice sights, a surprisingly good trigger for such a cheap pistol, and it's one of the few mid-size locked-breech .380 pistols other than the Baby Rock, 1911-380, Colt Gov't, and Star SS, which gives it light recoil and very low slide operation force.
However, I can't forgive the PK380 for its two big negatives: a reputation for fair-to-middling reliability (the one I shot was an absolute Jam-o-Matic©), and perhaps more crucially, the fact that the pistol will drop the hammer when the trigger is pulled with the thumb safety engaged. I find this highly inappropriate on a defensive firearm because of the confusion that could result if the user pulls the trigger in a defensive situation and gets a "click" rather than a BANG! With most pistols, the remedy is easy and straightforward – dud round, clear the pistol – but the PK380 forces the user to first waste time double-checking that the safety is off.
(No, I don't like this about the Mauser HSc or Star 28/30/31 either.
)Oh, you'll note that I brought up the Star SS! Neat pistol, but magazine availability and service will probably be an issue, so I'd leave it to the collectors.
I'm probably one of the biggest fans of the Series 81 on this forum, but I'm also one of the first to warn people about this issue; the slides are simply NOT easy to operate, due to the stiff recoil spring and limited grasping surface. The slide also can't be moved with the thumb safety engaged; this is not unusual among older pistol designs, but it's still a minus for some people.Cousin Pat said:
At least the thumb safety either disconnects (B/BB/F/FS) or locks the trigger (original no-suffix model), as a thumb safety should.