which handgun / what caliber

P

prof30

Inactive
Hi,

Need advice regarding what handgun to purchase for home defense.

Here are some limitations based on my country and earnings:

- I just got a license to own a handgun (which I applied for almost an year ago).
- Shotgun is not an option because of the chores involved in getting its license.
- I can spend at most 2% of my monthly wages on practice bullets which will buy one of the following:
* 90 (.22 Amscor Philippines)
* 70 (.22 Federal Hollow Point)
* 45 (.22 CCI - U.S.A)
* 25 (.22 Magnum)
* 20 (9mm Russian Bernaul)
* 20 (9mm China)
* 15 (9mm Armscore JHP - Philipines)
* 15 (9mm MagTech HP's - Brazil)
* 15 (9mm American Eagle / Federal Cartridge - U.S.A)
* 10 (9mm American Eagle / Federal Cartridge Hollow Point - U.S.A)

One time money can be spent on a good handgun. Here are my options (based solely on what is easily available in the market and is in my buying range):

- Options for .22 Handguns:
* Walther P22 (Germany)
* Taurus 941 Revolver (Brazil)
* ISSC M22 .22LR Pistol (Austria)
* SIG Mosquito
* Browning BuckMark (this is a bit over my budget, but can try to get one)


- Options for 9mm Handguns:
* Stoeger Cougar (Turkey)
* CZ 999 (Skorpion) Serbia (AKA Charles Daily ZDA)
* Baikal MP446 Viking (Russia)
* CZ-85B (Czech Republic) (this is a bit over my budget, but can try to get one)

I have little or no knowledge about firearms. Most websites suggest a shotgun for home defense. This does not seem to be a viable option for me. In my personal opinion getting a .22 handgun makes sense as I have the option of using more practice bullets per month (.22 Amscor Phillippines). From reading on the internet 9mm seems to be better option but I can't have regular practice sessions.

Now here are two questions:
- What caliber?
- Which Handgun?

Thank you for your suggestions.
 
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I'd go with the CZ85B if possible...
A .22 is OK for training but not strong enough for home defense. There is a vast difference between .22 and 9mm. With limited funds for only one gun, I strongly suggest that you go with 9mm... The CZ85B would be my first preference, the CZ999 Skorpion my second, and the Stoeger Cougar my 3rd... If $ were not a concern, the CZ 85B is one of the very best 9mm's on the planet... If you COULD swing it, that'd be great... But the Skorpion (with more $ left for ammo) would be a decent way to go too.

Good wishes to you in your endeavors!
 
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That's a tough one, as far as .22 vs 9mm.

On the one hand, the 9mm is much more suitable for a primary home defense caliber.

On the other hand, if you can't practice enough with it to be sure of hitting your target, it loses its advantage.

You'd have to decide whether you'd be able to practice enough with the 9mm to be able to score hits at household ranges. If you do opt to go with the 9mm, invest in some snap caps. They are inexpensive, and allow safe dry-fire and safe stoppage clearing practice. Dry-fire is always good, but is even more critical when you can't afford much practice ammo.

Of the pistols you listed, my personal preferences would be the Stoeger Cougar in 9mm, and the Walther P22 in .22. I like the Buckmark, too, but don't own one. I have friends who own P22s, and they think highly of them. The Mosquito has had an iffy reputation in the US, even among SIG fans; apparently, it has an expected life of 10,000 or so rounds, which is very low for a .22.

However, it's always best, when possible, to get your hands on a gun before you make a decision. Some will just fit better than others.
 
CZ85B if you can swing it, the Cougar if you can't. For those that don't know, the Cougar has actually received good reviews in the American gun press and is made on the same tooling Beretta used when they were making the original Cougar model. It's not a bad choice under the circumstances.

http://www.benelliusa.com/assets/reviews/docs/Cougar-AmRflmn9-08.pdf
http://www.benelliusa.com/assets/reviews/docs/Cougar9mm-OnTarget_Feb2008.pdf
http://www.benelliusa.com/assets/reviews/docs/Cougar-GunsAmmo_1-07.pdf

.22LR is not a reliable self-defense cartridge, both because of its low power and the relative unreliability of rimfire cartridges in general. More practice is better obviously, but the difference between .22LR and 9x19 is extreme enough that I'd go with the 9.
 
The CZ offers the greatest potential for owner satisfaction; it is in wide use world-wide; pistolsmithing services are available world-wide; accessories are available world-wide; it fits most hands.
 
Hello Pro30, For a first timer with firearms..

may I suggest a 4" .357Mag revolver.

First you can shot regular .38Spl rounds thru it, specifically the target wadcutter loads to get the fundamentals of sight alignment and trigger pull, and get you muscle use to the weight.

second as you progress, then upgrade to more powerful .38 loads, get into local shooting club to practice in timed events and get a local source to assist in refining technique or stance questions as they come up.

Then WHEN you feel comfortable, try some .357 round and decide what to use more.

I suggest this in line with the original premise of HD use, if you decide for a .22, then those you ID'd are good, but again consider revolvers, due to simplicity of operation.

Hope this helps.

PS: Suggest squeezing new tennis ball in hand first with all fingers, then with thumb and individual finger to build strength.
 
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For the 22's:

I'd strongly advise against the Sig Mosquito. There are a lot of problems due to too high spring tension, causing failure to feeds. From your list the Browning Buckmark is without doubt the most accurate, and probably the most value for money too. I don't understand your
(this is a bit over my budget, but can try to get one)
Click to expand...
about the Buckmark, the Walther and Sig are more expensive (at least they are here). If you really can't afford a Buckmark and decide to go for a 22 LR, look into the used handguns. 22's like the Buckmark and Ruger are plentiful and of high quality.

For the 9mm's:

If you can get a Viking for a good price, don't hesitate! It is a high quality weapon made by a reputed manufacturer (Izhmash). It's a polymer framed variant of the Yarygin Pya. I've tried to find it over here, but always failed. Except for the CZ75/85 I'm not really fond of the other pistols. Viking is still better IMHO.
 
Cougar vs CZ85B...

Just to clarify my earlier post, I think both these pistols are quite good. However, if you'd have to stretch the budget in order to get the CZ, and since you are already worried about being able to afford sufficient practice ammo, I'd go with the Cougar just so you can afford more ammo up front.

But the CZ is a very good gun.
 
For HD, I would of course say shotgun. However, as stated that is not a possibility for you at this time due to red tape.

I would discourage .22 for HD purposes. Not that it won't work with proper shot placement, but rather due to the somewhat high chance of misfire on rimfire cartridges. But in all honesty it beats nothing.

9mm is very accurate, however being a fast round, it will tend to go through walls, doors, etc. Sometimes desirable, most times not. CZs are a very good brand, as are the Stoeger Courgars (I was, and still am considering one for myself)

Overall I would tend to agree with jrothWA and his recommendation of the .357 revolver. Easy to learn, no jamming. You can find a Ruger GP 100 for around the price of a Cougar, in the States anyways.

Good Luck!
 
I was going to say go with the CZ 85 B as well. I think you will be most pleased with that. The Cougar is defintley next too if you dont like the CZ. I would suggest getting one of the 9mm's.
 
Of the options you listed, I'd go with the Cougar. They're heavy and reliable 9mm's. I've shot my friends for about 200-300 rounds and never had a issue.
 
I'd like to advise you to check your local laws regarding defending yourself inside your home or on your property.

You may be unpleasantly surprised, although i really hope you wont be.
 
Prof--
First of all, I would like to ask where you are. Your statement about having to get a license for a shotgun piqued my curiosity.

Then your statement about your ammo budget prompted me to do some math.

Two percent of your monthly wage being equal to 70-90 rounds of .22 equates (in the US) to a monthly wage of ~$150.

So I conclude that either you are not in the US, (and)/or your ammo costs are significantly higher.

With that perspective, perhaps some of the prior posters might want to re-evaluate their reponses.

If my budget were that tight, I would prefer a quality .22 that would allow me to attain and maintain proficiency.
 
Stoeger. As for having work done on it; it is a Beretta Cougar with a different manufacturing name stamped on the weapon. Almost any gun smith can service a Beretta or the Stoeger.
 
My guess, based on restrictions, costs, and on availability of ARMSCOR, would be the Philippines, but I suppose he could be anywhere.
 
thank you for your time and suggestions

First, thank you all for helping
Most of you suggested 9mm. I think I will go with that.

@jrothWA: I will do some research regarding revolvers in local market.

@9-ball: Here, the buckmark is the most expensive of all .22 handguns listed above.

@sw686: I thought about getting a used one but due to lack of knowledge might end up with a lemon. So better stick to new. Also can't make online purchases here. Local market is the only option and relative ammo prices are listed in my initial post.

@SHNOMIDO: Thank you for your advice. I have some knowledge of local laws and thought about them long and hard. According to me, I have an obligation to protect my family. If someone pose a threat (enters my house in the middle of the night) I will do what I need to do. BTW, I am a law abiding citizen and won't think of shooting at any human being unless I have no other choice. In fact I never gave much thought to owning a firearm until now - when I have a kid. In summary, I have a strong feeling that if someone poses a threat to my family I must react.

orionengnr: Its is not just a shotgun, getting a license for any firearm is difficult over here. As I mentioned, I got my handgun license almost after an year and and that too by constantly pushing the relevant people. I am certainly not in the US. I did not want to mention my wages but still get good advice. That is why I did the math and put up prices in terms of my wages. All firearm related things are expensive over here.

MLeake: The reason for price difference are import duties and profit margins involved. Import duty can possibly make price multiple times of the original. In the way of comparison a Glock 26 on the internet costs $500. In local market it costs $3800. Similarly a leather jacket over here costs $100; similar jacket in the US may cost $500. I assume import duties are not high when importing from Philippines.


Thanks again.
 
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