I really want a military surplus bolt gun. I've found the problem with a lot of them is the cost of ammo. It'll just be something fun to take to the range, so I really don't want anything that's more than $.50 per round. I feel like the mosin is the only thing I keep coming back to. Any others I should consider?
Which fun, old, cheap to shoot bolt gun should I look in to?
- Thread starter Kvon2
- Start date
Nothing wrong with your choice. I wanted a bulk shooter myself & went with a 700 Remington in 30-06 as I had several buckets of brass & several thousand fmj bullets to produce cheap handloads. Still shooting that rifle but added a other in 223 for the same reason.
Another item to consider is a Savage bolt gun in 223 as you can come in well under 50 cents per round.
Another item to consider is a Savage bolt gun in 223 as you can come in well under 50 cents per round.
Sadly, the "fun, old, cheap to shoot bolt gun" is no longer cheap, nor cheap to shoot. We are 70 years past WWII and all the surplus is drying up, much like all the Civil War, Spanish-American and WWI surplus has dried up in turn.
For fun, I would always recommend a Lee-Enfield which you can still find for less that $400.00 in nice condition, but the ammo isn't so easy to get anymore. Eventually, the Mosins will dry up, and, as the former ComBloc arsenals empty out, so will the ammo.
For fun, I would always recommend a Lee-Enfield which you can still find for less that $400.00 in nice condition, but the ammo isn't so easy to get anymore. Eventually, the Mosins will dry up, and, as the former ComBloc arsenals empty out, so will the ammo.
Pathfinder45
New member
Just go to a few gunshops that do the buy-sell-trade routine. Unaltered milsurps are going up, but you could also look for a Remington 721 or post-64 Winchester 70, or 670, or Ted Williams, or Westernfield, or any number of old commercial Mausers. Sooner or later, and not much later, you should be able to find an entirely acceptable 30-'06 or 270 Winchester for between $250.00 and $350.00.
You can also get older reloading equipment at many gun shows. I paid $25.00 for an old Lyman Spartan press. No bells, no whistles, but it works. Still, the cheapest bolt action to shoot is a 22 rimfire.
You can also get older reloading equipment at many gun shows. I paid $25.00 for an old Lyman Spartan press. No bells, no whistles, but it works. Still, the cheapest bolt action to shoot is a 22 rimfire.
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This may sound pretty simplistic but to be fun to shoot a gun has to be accurate or your not going to be hitting much. I really liked Ruger firearms but I passed up the Mini-14 and the 10/22 for a long time just because of this issue.
I'd say spend the extra money to get a real tack driver and figure the rifle will probably out last you and whoever you decide to leave it to.
Figured that way, i.e. the rifle will last for LOTS of months, the price per month will be very, very low. (That's how I justify these things to myself-self delusion can work for you.)
I'd say spend the extra money to get a real tack driver and figure the rifle will probably out last you and whoever you decide to leave it to.
Figured that way, i.e. the rifle will last for LOTS of months, the price per month will be very, very low. (That's how I justify these things to myself-self delusion can work for you.)
The problem Kvon is probably going to be your lack of skills making reloads or brass which will drive the price to the point that you would not make the purchase while others of us would.
A Schmidt Rubin for example would not intimidate me in the least but for you would probably be an insurmountable obstacle getting or making ammunition so how can we make suggestions when we do not know your skillset?
A Schmidt Rubin for example would not intimidate me in the least but for you would probably be an insurmountable obstacle getting or making ammunition so how can we make suggestions when we do not know your skillset?
Savage 340A, 30-30. Cheap ammo, great knockdown power out to 200yds, very accurate to 250-300yds, easy/cheap to load for. Still some good aftermarket support for that rifle as well. I just got mine in November, its a 1954 model, no serial number, but was able to source a new stock, Williams sights, new magazine and a new scope mount(side mount)
Its only downfall is the single lug bolt so you can't get heavy with the loads but it doesn't need heavy loads. Throw some 130-150grain pills out of it and have fun.
I enjoy mine
Its only downfall is the single lug bolt so you can't get heavy with the loads but it doesn't need heavy loads. Throw some 130-150grain pills out of it and have fun.
I enjoy mine
Your issue is two-fold:
Militaries have transitioned to semi-automatic/select fire since the end of WWII. Aside from Sniper/Anti-Materiel applications they just aren't commonly used today.
So, that leaves you limited to 75+ year old weapons, whose chamberings have become obsolete- and therefore very expensive, or unavailable altogether.
Your threshold of .50/round is living in a decade ago, before milsurps became popular.
That said- there's no reason not to "keep coming back to the Mosin-Nagant".
Even for those, ammunition is getting harder to come by- which may or may not change depending on geo/political circumstances. But you hit on exactly why these rifles have more than doubled in price over the last few years- but are still relatively affordable to buy at under $200.
Those with in good condition, including a good bore- will shoot well. If you want a real shooter- get a Finn barreled Mosin-Nagant. The quality of their barrels was head and shoulders above the Russian ones; but to translate that to holes in paper downrange you need commercial ammo at least (handloads preferred).
Militaries have transitioned to semi-automatic/select fire since the end of WWII. Aside from Sniper/Anti-Materiel applications they just aren't commonly used today.
So, that leaves you limited to 75+ year old weapons, whose chamberings have become obsolete- and therefore very expensive, or unavailable altogether.
Your threshold of .50/round is living in a decade ago, before milsurps became popular.
That said- there's no reason not to "keep coming back to the Mosin-Nagant".
Even for those, ammunition is getting harder to come by- which may or may not change depending on geo/political circumstances. But you hit on exactly why these rifles have more than doubled in price over the last few years- but are still relatively affordable to buy at under $200.
Those with in good condition, including a good bore- will shoot well. If you want a real shooter- get a Finn barreled Mosin-Nagant. The quality of their barrels was head and shoulders above the Russian ones; but to translate that to holes in paper downrange you need commercial ammo at least (handloads preferred).
ligonierbill
New member
Cheapest 7.62x54R I have seen lately was about 53 cents a round in bulk from ammoman (not surplus). You can still find Mosins pretty cheap, too.
But the cheapest ammo for rifles is 7.62x39, half the cost of its big brother. AK's are not so cheap, though.
If you shoot much, the ammo cost will overtake the cost of the gun.
But the cheapest ammo for rifles is 7.62x39, half the cost of its big brother. AK's are not so cheap, though.
If you shoot much, the ammo cost will overtake the cost of the gun.
aarondhgraham
New member
Have you considered a rimfire trainer?
I don't know if you are interested in shooting .22 rimfire at all,,,
But these Polish WZ-48 Trainers are available/findable,,,
And they won't break the bank to buy or shoot.
I paid 230.00 for mine in a private sale,,,
It's worth every penny as it is a very accurate rifle.
Just a thought.
Aarond
.
I don't know if you are interested in shooting .22 rimfire at all,,,
But these Polish WZ-48 Trainers are available/findable,,,
And they won't break the bank to buy or shoot.
I paid 230.00 for mine in a private sale,,,
It's worth every penny as it is a very accurate rifle.
Just a thought.
Aarond
.
Mosin ammo can still be found for under 50¢, and I expect surplus will be back at some point, once the Russia/Ukraine situation straightens out. Probably won't be as cheap as it once was.
SGAmmo has pretty good prices, and they are in Oklahoma, so centrally located for shipping.
http://www.sgammo.com/catalog/rifle-ammo-sale/762x54r-ammo
One thing to consider, is a .308. There are a couple of bolt action options, the Ishapore Enfields, Israeli Mausers, (both a little over your budget though).
Yugo Mausers are pretty good as well, but ammo prices are a little higher than Mosins. Surplus can be found occasionally.
SGAmmo has pretty good prices, and they are in Oklahoma, so centrally located for shipping.
http://www.sgammo.com/catalog/rifle-ammo-sale/762x54r-ammo
One thing to consider, is a .308. There are a couple of bolt action options, the Ishapore Enfields, Israeli Mausers, (both a little over your budget though).
Yugo Mausers are pretty good as well, but ammo prices are a little higher than Mosins. Surplus can be found occasionally.
You want cheap, fun to shoot, accurate, practical bolt gun? Find a $300 bubba'd 1903a3 in your local gun shop. Reloading opens all and every possibility for shooting, cast, light, heavy, streamlined, hunting, fmj's, you name it. Also, the "inexpensive" ammo market is improving daily. Look at places like AIM surplus to get an idea of '06 and 308 ammo coming in now from ZQI, PPU, etc.
Blindstitch
New member
Sounds like a problem resulting in 3 answers.
If the ammo is cheap then the guns are cheap. 22lr in example or a mosin.
If the ammo is cheap the guns aren't. 7.62x39 New US made AK
If the guns are cheap the ammo is expensive/obsolete/not common/or a number of things. I don't think I'll ever see 6.5 jap on a shelf even though Hornady manufactures it.
My option to this question would be forget milserp and see if you can find a bolt action 7.62x39.
Or go way milserp and reload. Obsolete brass can be harder to find but 6.5 jap costs $50 for 100 pieces of brass. Beyond that projectiles are 22-30 cents plus powder, primer and other costs.
If the ammo is cheap then the guns are cheap. 22lr in example or a mosin.
If the ammo is cheap the guns aren't. 7.62x39 New US made AK
If the guns are cheap the ammo is expensive/obsolete/not common/or a number of things. I don't think I'll ever see 6.5 jap on a shelf even though Hornady manufactures it.
My option to this question would be forget milserp and see if you can find a bolt action 7.62x39.
Or go way milserp and reload. Obsolete brass can be harder to find but 6.5 jap costs $50 for 100 pieces of brass. Beyond that projectiles are 22-30 cents plus powder, primer and other costs.
brasscollector
New member
^^^^ +1 ^^^^
Not sure just how cheap you could find one but an X39 bolt gun would be great for what you're looking for. All the cheap X39 ammo w/steel cases would likely shoot good enuf for plinking/range food.
Not sure just how cheap you could find one but an X39 bolt gun would be great for what you're looking for. All the cheap X39 ammo w/steel cases would likely shoot good enuf for plinking/range food.
.308 can be had in the $.50 range now- I was surprised to see some at Wally World, new manufacture, brass case- for $10/box (20).
But no "military surplus" bolt guns were chambered for it that I can think of (of course, one of the Remington 700 M40 Sniper rifles from Vietnam would be nice
).
The Spanish Mausers are not designed to handle full-pressure .308.
But no "military surplus" bolt guns were chambered for it that I can think of (of course, one of the Remington 700 M40 Sniper rifles from Vietnam would be nice
).The Spanish Mausers are not designed to handle full-pressure .308.
Model12Win
Moderator
moison nagat chambered in 30. russian.
invented in ww2 for snipers and the most accurate rifle at that time. they are cheap now and ammo is crazy cheap.
invented in ww2 for snipers and the most accurate rifle at that time. they are cheap now and ammo is crazy cheap.
So ammo is crazy cheap? Not according to your other thread.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=570888
So which is it? You can't have it both ways. And I really doubt it was the most accurate rifle at the time. Can you prove that? And its conception date was 1891. Not WWII.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=570888
So which is it? You can't have it both ways. And I really doubt it was the most accurate rifle at the time. Can you prove that? And its conception date was 1891. Not WWII.