Which Dies

axismatt I believe you need to do a little research on how long Lee has been making presses and dies compared to some of the companies you listed.I use about any make of dies made for me not enough difference to matter I'am no world class shooter.In 40 years of reloading the only defective dies I have had were both Lee rifle dies A 6mm that never touched the neck and a 35 Rem. that the threaded hole for the decapper was drilled angled.Also I broke the linkage on a early turret press Lee knew this was a problem and sent a new steel replacement.I still buy Lee produicts.If you are not a fanboy then I'am not sure what a fanboy is.
 
I'm no fanboy. Fanboys try to convince everyone their product is superior. My argument all along has been that LEE products get the job done, very well, for 1/3 the cost... and that ALL equipment has it's difficulties, regardless of brand. I defend LEE when folks liken it to harbor freight products, because that comparison grossly inadequate. More often, the OP has specifically stated that they are new to reloading, on a tight budget, or looking for a feature that LEE happens to offer. Being a LEE user, I offer my opinion of the product from experience. Note: you'll never see one disparaging comment about other equipment in ANY of my posts, other than to say that ALL brands of equipment can be frustrating... something I have experienced when using or watching my friends' equipment operate.

You, however, have time and again stated that, as a new loader and "engineer", you have determined that LEE is substandard, or looks cheap, but you have no personal experience with the product. I suspect you tend to abide by the old adage, "You get what you pay for" and determined early on in your quest for a room full of new toys that LEE couldn't possibly offer a quality product because it costs so much less than the next closest competitor. I'm not calling you a snoot, but the attitude you've taken towards any product you haven't deemed worthy, on looks alone, is a bit snooty.

And then there's the comments about innovation. While you might be a brilliant engineer, you're no historian. LEE was there in the beginning... the infancy of modern reloading, and designed systems that Dillon and RCBS and Redding all built theirs around. LEE was THE innovators, and while they may not be setting the world on fire lately, neither is anyone else.
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If you had paid better attention you wouldn't have missed that I wrote that I bought different LEE products in the beginning and returned them because they were inaccurate, arrived with corrosion and / or provided bad ergonomics.

You call LEE innovative? Come back when they offer micrometer adjustable dies or case trimmer, or turrets with more than 4 stations (what a joke), or a solid cast iron turret press, or a tight specs dead center 30 pound press with the same leverage like the Redding UltraMag, or a well working auto case feeder like Dillon offers, or a 8 station progressive like the 1050... The list is long but I'm not going to further waste my time on this.

If you like LEE, good for you. LEE is clearly not for me and you are not going to tell me it's on the same level as Redding, Dillon or a bunch of other high quality companies; because it simply is not. And I don't need 30 years in order to find that out. There are a ton of reloader pretending that LEE is the one and only and I'll voice my opinion based on my experiences and observations as an engineer and a reloader. Hence I will always prefer and suggest high quality products over cheaply made crap.

By the way, your statement that ALL brands of equipment can be frustrating is absolutely not correct. There are many products out there which are made extremely well and have no drawbacks. But you won't find those items for cheap. Because true innovation, R&D, QS and high quality materials are not cheap. Just one example... what was the last time you worked on the current Redding T-7 press? Tell me just one shortcoming. And then compare it to the LEE turret joke.
 
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Heh, we seem to be in a loop.

To the OP, pick the dies that fit your budget and satisfy your needs. Any of the major manufacturers sell quality product and have great customer service. Good luck getting back into the hobby.

Everyone else... have an awesome day!!!
 
McCarthy said:
LEE does not sell quality products. They are acceptable for the price, and that's about it.
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now you've gone beyond making your point to bashing. If they are not for you so be it, but to state they don't sell quality products because you want something else (whatever you reasons are) is foolish and you've lost any credibility with your argument and you've become boorish.
 
now you've gone beyond making your point to bashing. If they are not for you so be it, but to state they don't sell quality products because you want something else (whatever you reasons are) is foolish and you've lost any credibility with your argument and you've become boorish.
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I stated my opinion based on my experience. By the way: the LEE universal decapping die is also going back. It couldn't push the primer out of a simple .45 case, pushed the pin out of the die instead, even tho the collet nut was so tight that I had to get my 1/2" socket wrench out.

While I did not attack anybody personally over this mater I got to hear that I'm "no historian" (btw: Redding is over a decade older than LEE), that I "don't get it" and now I'm "foolish" and "boorish".

The only one who loses credibility are those who need to drag a discussion to the personal side in order to make a useless point. So far I thought you are a knowledgeable guy I could learn something from. I learned something indeed...
 
McCarthy said:
That's when you learn that the LEE rubber ring lock is super annoying to work with. That's not innovative, that's just cheap.
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Just because you don't like the way they work does not mean they are poor tools. It just means they do not fit your style.

I am sorely disappointed with the Lee Pro-1000, but absolutely thrilled with the Lee Classic Turret. One fits my style and the other does not.

Don't blame the tool. The "O" ring works well for some. For others, not so much. To each their own.

Lost Sheep
 
Grits said:
(edited for brevity) why the 4 die versus the 3 die. Does the Lee do something extra ??
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The Lee 4-die set does two things extra.

One (and this can be done with the Lee FCD or simply by using the Seat-Crimp Combination Die twice, once adjusted for seating only and the second time adjusted for crimping only.) Separating the crimping from the seating.

Separating the operations makes adjusting the dies more convenient.

Also, crimping while seating carries with it a complication. A crimp can dig into the sides of the bullet if it is done at the same time as the bullet is being seated deeper. Not usually a big problem, but it is occasionally, depending on the depth of the crimp and the shape of the crimping groove (for roll crimps) and requires a pretty delicate touch on the adjustment for taper crimps.

The second thing, is post-sizing. See Lee's web site's Frequently Asked Questions. Post-sizing is intended to ensure the completed round meets SAMMI specifications and will chamber with certainty. This is good. But the post-sizing sometimes (particularly with cast lead bullets) impairs bullet tension. Bullet tension is important for three reasons. It keeps the bullet where it belongs (not being driven in deeper by cycling through an action and not pulled out by recoil in a revolver). Bullet tension also promotes proper pressure buildup when the round goes off.

See these threads:

Lee Precision's thoughts on the matter can be found in these threads:

One thread contains a lively discussion of the FCD and the function of the post-sizing carbide ring in the FCD. The phrase "9mm" is in the thread title, but don't let that dissuade you. It contains responses direct from Lee Precision, too. Read the whole thing. It is worth it.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=465091

this thread contains a poll

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=465603

I started these four threads because I wanted to clear the air on the controversies that surround the Lee FCDs without the vitriol that often accompany such discussions.

The Virtue and the Vice
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=509934
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=691050
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=168362
http://rugerforum.net/reloading/65863-lee-fcd-pistol-not-rifle-virtue-vice.html#post814465

Lost Sheep
 
Question for McCarthy

McCarthy said:
Come back when they offer...turrets with more than 4 stations
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While the lack of a 5th station may be frustrating, I find 4 stations adequate for my purposes. I remember when Lee's Turret Press had only three stations.

What issues cause you to hold the opinion that a turret press with only 4 stations is inadequate?

I note also that Dillon's Square Deal and 550 progressive presses have only 4 stations.

Please, do not take offense at my asking this question. I wish only to bring the appropriate issues up for an enlightening and dispassionate discussion.

Lost Sheep
 
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I love the LEE fsctory crimp die.

HOWEVER:

Having said that, I've owned three sets of LEE reloading dies and two of them had to be sent back to the factory due to defects.

For the last 20 years, all my new dies are Redding. Yes, Redding is expensive, but my father taught me 60 years ago that the most expensive item on the shelf is usually the most economical in the long run.
 
My die sets are a mixed bag. Literally every die manufacture made except Herters. The majority of them are Lee. Because I've had the least amount of trouble with Lee. I got a set of .223 dies from Hornady. The decapper spindle went to hell right off the bat. They replaced it with a new design that does work. Then there's the seater die. You cannot seat a .223 55 grain soft point deep enough without running into the crimper ring with properly trimmed brass!. Had 50 rounds that would jam tight in the chamber because the shoulder had a bulge. Those dies now reside in my junk box, will throw them in the recycle box the next time I take scrap brass to the recycle center.

I replaced them with Lee for my Dillon 650. Now for the thick Dillon tool head, and the shortER Lee dies, I put the lock ring on the bottom of the die. Because the die is so short, you run out of threads on the top.

Now as to the statement that lee ONLY has 4 stations for it's turret press. Why in tarnation would you ever need more than 4? With the powder through expander, Lee safety prime and the excellent disc powder measure, the Lee classic turret is almost a progressive loader,(as far as speed goes). With a 4 die set from Lee, you can seat and crimp in 2 operations, a better method for auto handgun and revolver loading.

The Redding T-7 is a true turret. It has manual advance making it slower by a long shot than the auto advance Lee. Lee should have come up with a different name for their turret. Including it into that category has led to confusion. It's not a true turret like the Lyman, Redding, RCBS, or any others. For rifle loading the Redding an others allows for the storage of dies that can load 3 rifle calibers with an extra station for one of the die sets. The turrets are huge, heavy, and expensive. Changing turrets means un-bolting the turret, making sure it returns to that just right tension on that center bolt/nut so it can load AND still turn.

And another thing, the turrets by the big 3 are all "C" type presses. That means less support than an "O" type of press. The C presses can and will flex under heavy resizing and forming pressure. Then there's the tendency of the turret to move up and back when under pressure. The center bolt/nut has to be loose enough to allow it to be turned to present the next die. Otherwise it can be cranked down to make it solid.
 
As Guffy stated my RCBS dies haven't rust either!

The only Lee dies I have are three crimp dies, as has been mentioned the lock rings are pitiful.. Several of my RCBS dies sets are 30 years old or older, I have a few Lyman, Hornady, and Redding dies that have been quality durable tools plus none have had to be replaced. When I was in my mid to late 30's my group size started to enlarger, I thought my RCBS dies might be the problem and pitched all of them and purchased all Lee dies. My group size not only didn't improve but were larger, I realized I had just threw away money I couldn't afford to spend. A visit to my optometrist and a different prescription did wonders for my groups, I do believe I would still be using most of the die sets if I hadn't thrown them away.. William
 
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I prefer RCBS dies but you'll have to get a separate taper crimp die. Don't try to seat and crimp at the same time.
 
I use a Redding crimp die for 45ACP and Lee crimp dies for 30/30 .307Win and my son's 45/70 take down rifle I smithed while enrolled in TSJC Gunsmith program in Colorado.. William
 
I see a carbide 4 die set by Lee with shell holder included and a 3 die set by RCBS and I think I will have to buy the shell holder separate. The Lee is actually cheaper from Cabelas. Which set should I buy and why the 4 die versus the 3 die. Does the Lee do something extra ??
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The Lee 4 die set includes a "factory crimp die" which may or may not be helpful to you. (The seating die in a pistol die set also crimps.)

If you're going to load on a Lee turret or progressive, get the Lee die set. Lee's powder measure integrates with their belling die.

The Lee dies will have a carbide sizer. The RCBS may or may not. Carbide is recommended.

Otherwise, get whichever one you want.
 
Not necessarily

pete2 said:
I prefer RCBS dies but you'll have to get a separate taper crimp die. Don't try to seat and crimp at the same time.
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RCBS (as every maker I know of does) supplies a roll crimp die for handgun cases that headspace on the rim and a taper crimp die for handgun cases that headspace on the case mouth.

However, you CAN (if you really, really want) manage to get a taper crimp with a roll-crimp die (and even the combination roll-crimp-seating die). But case length, die adjustment and operation of the press handle has to be done very carefully. But it can be done.

Lost Sheep
 
Lost Sheep, You can use the RCBS to crimp with, BUT you will have better results on 9mm and 45 if you taper crimp in a 4th operation.
 
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