Which center-fire rifle cartridge would you not trust for self defense?

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Perhaps one of those most enimic current rifle cartridges is the 30 cal carbine, still has plenty of power for me and countless others who were on the wrong end in WWII, Korea and Vietnam. 110 gr bullet at 1900 fps, I love this cartridge/rifle (m1) combo.
 
1stMar --- Yea...agreed. But at what approx. distance, did the 30 cal. carbine bullets, bounce off the coats of the attacking North Korean hordes, during the Korean War?
 
Given this is about self defense I'm figuring distances less then 25 yards for sure, likely less then 10ft. I don't see it bouncing off at at self defense distances. It certainly would not be my first choice for combat. :-))
 
IMHO it's more a matter of the firearm than the cartridge. My trusty old M1888 45-70 has pleny of knock down power but against an urban horde I'd prefer something with more magazine capacity and easier reloading.
I have read the stories of the M1 Carbine round failing in Korea, some account said the Red Chinese were using body armor, others said it was the thick padding of their winter uniforms. Having Seen the Elephant myself, I wonder how much of the problem was failures of the ammunition vs. an exhausted and groggy and sleep deprived GI (OK, Marine if you prefer) trying to repel a screaming horde at 0100 in 20 degree weather who THINKS he's hitting his targets and can't understand why they won't go down.
 
At close to 1000 ft lbs the 30 carbine is ideal for defense purposes. That's what it was designed for. Recoil is mild, power is plenty, recovery time is good. You can load with 5, 15, and 30 round mags which would give you plenty of fire power.
 
Personally I think it's ideal for a self defense home gun, sufficient power without the over penetration concerns. Quick, handy, light, 30 rds.
But that's not what the ask was about...personally I'd be comfortable that the job could get done with just about any recent centerfire cartridge. So I don't think there is anything I wouldn't TRUST. Want.... Is another question.
 
Alright, I was a bit off topic, but I wouldn't trust anything with much more power unless you are not worried about way over penetration which is what you risk with high power rifles, So unless, you have frangible bullets, the carbine would be ideal.
 
True the 204 Ruger has more energy, but how much of that energy is going to be transferred to target?
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At self defense ranges? Pretty much all of it. And more than most any pistol round short of a 454 Casull.

The .204 Ruger will make anyone's day bad if they get hit with it. It will tear a person up and not leave much will to fight left (just like any rifle with a varmint-type round).
 
Cartridge wise, Brian made a good point in that even a small bore rifle has more muzzle energy that almost any handgun.
 
ain't it funny

Does it seem odd to anybody else that we often hear about the .30 Carbine bouncing off the Chinese and Koreans, in quilted winter clothing, but the round seems to have done just fine, or at lease adequately, against the Nazi's in cold weather uniform.
 
The Nazis were known for being under dressed for cold, wearing their dress uniforms with a trench coat. There were complaints mainly due to lack of ability of the carbine to penetrate saplings, small trees, the siding of buildings, etc., where the Garand could. This feature is what makes it desirable for home defense apps. The carbine was designed as a replacement for the 45, not the Garand, although it was used in place of an assault rifle in close quarters with some success. The M2 carbine could be fired in full auto also.
 
30 carbine and winter clothing myth. Box O Truth

To the question. My 375 RUM. In my apartment, in my neighborhood, over penetration may be a bit of a concern. I'm pretty sure my neighbors for the next 3 or 4 houses wouldn't be too happy with me if I used it.
 
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There is some evidence that rapid multiple hits from pipsqueak cartridges have an effect beyond the usual expectations. This comes from such "packages" as the Skorpion with .32ACPs.

Drawing on that, then, I'd figure that very-rapid multiple hits from such as a 10/22 or other semi-auto .22 rifle would be as effective as needed at commonly-accepted "defense of home" distances. To me, that's most likely within twenty yards or less.

Granted that I don't think in terms of one shot and stop to look. As long as the Bad Guy isn't lined up with BossLady's Steinway, I figure to quit when the Bad Guy does.
 
Almost every self defense situation is short range. So, I wouldn't use a high powered rifle. I think, just rifle cartridges, the 7.62x39 and 45-70 could be decent choices. But only with either hollow points or ballistic tips. I'd rather use handgun catridges in a rifle though for self defense if I had the choice.

As far as actions are concerned, I think semi auto would be best but a pump would work good too. Revolving rifles could do the job well too. But I wouldn't want to use a bolt action or a single shot.
 
45-70 could be decent choices. But only with either hollow points or ballistic tips.
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:eek:

Defense from Bears?.... If someone lives in a residential area, a .45-70 is a little much. That thing is going to penetrate a good bit more than most would like, even with hollow points or ballistic tips.
 
Drawing on that, then, I'd figure that very-rapid multiple hits from such as a 10/22 or other semi-auto .22 rifle would be as effective as needed at commonly-accepted "defense of home" distances. To me, that's most likely within twenty yards or less.
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Agree ! If you look at a 12 gage buckshot load, 2-3/4 inch shell, #1 buckshot, you find that there are 16 pellets, 40 grain each, travelling at 1250 - 1350 fps. Each pellet is very close to a 22 LR fired from a rifle... 40 grain, 1250 fps. So multiple hits from a 22 rifle will have similar wounding capability as buckshot.

It is not a stretch to say that if you had a 22LR machine gun with a 15 round magazine, and you emptied the magazine into a target... you have achieved the same effect as a single round of 12 gage #1 buckshot.
 
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