Which caliber do you guys like better.....357sig or 40 ??
- Thread starter vyper005
- Start date
- Status
The 45 is a great round the only disadvantage to it is the requirment of a bigger handgun to house it. I like the 357 sigs barrer penitration capability over the 45. But the 45 ain't bad and I have to carry one on duty a GLock 21. I don't feel under armed. Off duty I carry my own GLock 31 in 357 sig. The 45 and 357 sig and 9mm all shoot more accurately than the 40 in most guns. Most 40's I have shot will group between 3.5 (best sig 229) to 5 inches (glock 22 with 135 grain corbon) while most 357 sigs will do between 1.5 and 2.5 inches at the same range.
PAT
------------------
I intend to go into harms way.
PAT
------------------
I intend to go into harms way.
355sigfan,
With all due respect, when in a self deffence situation you are not shooting for tight groups, you are shooting to stop a threat.
I would think that if you are a decent shot you would be able to place a shot on target with either, surely a man sized target within 25 yards.
The fact remains, you shoot that .357sig indoors, your eyes and ears are going to feel it badly. When I am at the range with ear protection on, shooting .357sigs out of my G27, I can tell that I would be deaf for days if I ever fired that within the confinement of a house.
That is not just a little thing to take into consideration.
The 357sig is a good round but it just doesnt have enough edge to chose it over the .40, there are to many cons when stacked against the pros of the .40
I own both, so this is just my input from being a user of both.
I can appreciate them both for what they are.
~Jason
With all due respect, when in a self deffence situation you are not shooting for tight groups, you are shooting to stop a threat.
I would think that if you are a decent shot you would be able to place a shot on target with either, surely a man sized target within 25 yards.
The fact remains, you shoot that .357sig indoors, your eyes and ears are going to feel it badly. When I am at the range with ear protection on, shooting .357sigs out of my G27, I can tell that I would be deaf for days if I ever fired that within the confinement of a house.
That is not just a little thing to take into consideration.
The 357sig is a good round but it just doesnt have enough edge to chose it over the .40, there are to many cons when stacked against the pros of the .40
I own both, so this is just my input from being a user of both.
I can appreciate them both for what they are.
~Jason
It all comes down to personal preference. The benefit of course is that given either one, just a barrel swap will give you both.
Jmack, if deaf for a few days = dead perp, then I'm fine with it, REALLY!!!
Both, placed in the center of a bad guy, will give you a soiled carpet and a dead bad guy, no bad choices there!
As far as in the house, I suggest something like BeeSafe from Corbon.
http://www.corbon.com/beesafe.html
It's like a can of RAID, but for bad guys.
Albert
Jmack, if deaf for a few days = dead perp, then I'm fine with it, REALLY!!!
Both, placed in the center of a bad guy, will give you a soiled carpet and a dead bad guy, no bad choices there!
As far as in the house, I suggest something like BeeSafe from Corbon.
http://www.corbon.com/beesafe.html It's like a can of RAID, but for bad guys.
Albert
I own a Glock 27 with a spare 357 Sig barrel and I would opt for the 40 S&W. Why? Noise, flame, and slower second shot work against the 357 Sig. Does this mean I don't like the 357 Sig? No, I would probably choose it over the 40 S&W if the flame wasn't so big. I am sure I would be blinded in the dark but so would the BG if his eyes were open when I shot. Again, the 357 Sig is more fun for recreational shooting. Regards, Richard.
GgnubrKihn
New member
the Esteemable Mr Greg Bell,Wow! An OG SEAL guy! I was wondering- hearing about the hush, hush line of work you are involved in and that Super Secret 'Silence or Death' oath thing, could you share a few of your exploits from your past. I SWEAR- won't tell a soul! You guys are so understated, no embellishmnets at all in your reply. So can you share a bit more about how and why and wheres? Come on liven it up a little, not just the facts (It's that 60's Dragnet thing goin' ain't it?). Maybe a little allagorical or 3rd person inferences as to hows and whys so all can learn from your experiences. And besides you didn't state which side you chose on the .40/.357 SIG debate. So which is it? Details man! Details!
The .357SIG is by far a superior round. I carry a USP Compact in .357SIG as a duty weapon. I have examined a good bit of literature on both rounds but I concluded the Secret Service had the highest standards and a good philosophy to boot. Replicate the .357 magnum round! They carried .357 magnum revolvers until they converted over to SIG 228’s and loaded them with +P+ ammo (closest thing to .357 mag at the time). Now they carry the SIG229 in .357 SIG. Out of the 3.58-inch barrel on a USP Compact, Corbons can push as high as 1350 fps, will make short-order of car doors, dense glass and other impediments the bad guys may take refuge behind.
I just believe it’s worth the extra recoil but that said, it still kicks less than a .357 magnum revolver. And you can carry up to 13 rounds. When the USMS conducted trials for an issue duty weapon the .357SIG came to the forefront in all areas, it even penetrated body armor up to level IIIA.
Fish
I just believe it’s worth the extra recoil but that said, it still kicks less than a .357 magnum revolver. And you can carry up to 13 rounds. When the USMS conducted trials for an issue duty weapon the .357SIG came to the forefront in all areas, it even penetrated body armor up to level IIIA.
Fish
I like 'em both. Oops. I mean to say that I like the 357 SIG better because:
It's a lot cheaper to reload because of the small 9mm bullets -- as much as a $15 difference per thousand between the 9 and .40. This is a lot if you shoot a lot.
I keep hearing people talk about too much noise and flash with the 357 SIG. It just depends on how it's loaded. I have several 357 SIG reloads that are not any different than a typical .40. The Speer Gold Dot doesn't have much flash for a full power magnum load. Lighter 357 SIG loads will be coming out soon (Triton is designing one) for those that don't want the magnum felt recoil
If you take an identical gun with a .40 and a 357 SIG barrel, guess which one will be more accurate?
Bullet setback with a 357 SIG is a moot point if the round is loaded correctly with a factory sealant/glue, or a good cannelure crimp.
With current bullet technology, the hole made from a 357 SIG or .40 bullet is about the same.
It's a lot cheaper to reload because of the small 9mm bullets -- as much as a $15 difference per thousand between the 9 and .40. This is a lot if you shoot a lot.
I keep hearing people talk about too much noise and flash with the 357 SIG. It just depends on how it's loaded. I have several 357 SIG reloads that are not any different than a typical .40. The Speer Gold Dot doesn't have much flash for a full power magnum load. Lighter 357 SIG loads will be coming out soon (Triton is designing one) for those that don't want the magnum felt recoil
If you take an identical gun with a .40 and a 357 SIG barrel, guess which one will be more accurate?
Bullet setback with a 357 SIG is a moot point if the round is loaded correctly with a factory sealant/glue, or a good cannelure crimp.
With current bullet technology, the hole made from a 357 SIG or .40 bullet is about the same.
Jmack
With all do respect to you sir as well. Accuracy is also important is self defense. Most shootings occur at close range but some don't. Also sometimes you have to shoot for the head or hand or any other exposed part of the bad guy that is behind cover. The noise factor is not an issue. The 40 and 357 sig are so close in noise with good loads that you will not notice a difference in a firefight. As for flash if you pick the right ammo the 40 and 357 sig are equal in that area too. More and more departments are going with the 357 sig give it time and the 40 will fade away.
PAT
------------------
I intend to go into harms way.
With all do respect to you sir as well. Accuracy is also important is self defense. Most shootings occur at close range but some don't. Also sometimes you have to shoot for the head or hand or any other exposed part of the bad guy that is behind cover. The noise factor is not an issue. The 40 and 357 sig are so close in noise with good loads that you will not notice a difference in a firefight. As for flash if you pick the right ammo the 40 and 357 sig are equal in that area too. More and more departments are going with the 357 sig give it time and the 40 will fade away.
PAT
------------------
I intend to go into harms way.
Fish,
Yes you will get better penitration with the .357sig when hitting car doors, windshields and so on.
May I add it will also penitrate walls in your house very good also, that might not be such a good thing if you ask me.
twoblink,
Yes indeed, but if you could get the same result without the flash and without the deafening blast wouldnt you rather take that route? Still going to have a downed perp and yet will be able to hear the police when they ask for details.
355sigfan,
To be honest, you will be waiting a long time for the .40 to fade away dont hold your breath on that one. Thats a bold statement if deffence of a caliber that has not yet proven that its here to stay. The .40 is one of the most popular calibers among shooters today and all for good reason.
Yes accuracy does make a difference, if you can shoot your pistol well you will hit your target nomatter what caliber you are using, the difference would be so minimal that it would be a non issue in a self deffence situation.
When you stack the two up side by side the .40 wins hands down.
~Jason
Yes you will get better penitration with the .357sig when hitting car doors, windshields and so on.
May I add it will also penitrate walls in your house very good also, that might not be such a good thing if you ask me.
twoblink,
Yes indeed, but if you could get the same result without the flash and without the deafening blast wouldnt you rather take that route? Still going to have a downed perp and yet will be able to hear the police when they ask for details.
355sigfan,
To be honest, you will be waiting a long time for the .40 to fade away dont hold your breath on that one. Thats a bold statement if deffence of a caliber that has not yet proven that its here to stay. The .40 is one of the most popular calibers among shooters today and all for good reason.
Yes accuracy does make a difference, if you can shoot your pistol well you will hit your target nomatter what caliber you are using, the difference would be so minimal that it would be a non issue in a self deffence situation.
When you stack the two up side by side the .40 wins hands down.
~Jason
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 355sigfan:
Accuracy is also important is self defense. Most shootings occur at close range but some don't. Also sometimes you have to shoot for the head or hand or any other exposed part of the bad guy that is behind cover.[/quote]
I can't help but think that you're trying to find a "more accurate" caliber without trully realizing that a tiny difference in accuracy between these two calibers justifies nothing whatsoever. The accuracy of a round, in fact, is never a determining factor for it to serve as a defensive cartridge.
Well, .40 is just a handgun round, with the same set of limitations as any other handgun cartridge. And if I can make 3-4 inch grouping at 20 yards with it while not being a very good shot, it's good enough to be a defensive round.
In regards to hands, heads, and other BG's body parts as targets for your DEFENSIVE shooting -- do you seriously think that they can't be hit with .40? Of course the fact that you wouldn't want to do so unless it occurs in your house is a whole different matter, but if it does take place in one's home, there goes your "long-range shooting".
.40 is a fantastic as much as extremely deadly ... sorry, I mean effective round. A proper handling of your gun, the grip, trigger control, sight picture, and keeping your cool can increase its efficacy even more.
Is .40 a target or range round? I don't know and honestly don't care. For people who also participate in long-range competitions, it could probably make a certain sense to have a gun chambered in something that can be both -- 357 SIG, .45 ACP, 38 Special, etc. May be .40 is not such caliber -- it's been created purely as a defensive round, with practically no other purpose.
And it serves its purpose so tenaciously.
The best.
Emin
Accuracy is also important is self defense. Most shootings occur at close range but some don't. Also sometimes you have to shoot for the head or hand or any other exposed part of the bad guy that is behind cover.[/quote]
I can't help but think that you're trying to find a "more accurate" caliber without trully realizing that a tiny difference in accuracy between these two calibers justifies nothing whatsoever. The accuracy of a round, in fact, is never a determining factor for it to serve as a defensive cartridge.
Well, .40 is just a handgun round, with the same set of limitations as any other handgun cartridge. And if I can make 3-4 inch grouping at 20 yards with it while not being a very good shot, it's good enough to be a defensive round.
In regards to hands, heads, and other BG's body parts as targets for your DEFENSIVE shooting -- do you seriously think that they can't be hit with .40? Of course the fact that you wouldn't want to do so unless it occurs in your house is a whole different matter, but if it does take place in one's home, there goes your "long-range shooting".
.40 is a fantastic as much as extremely deadly ... sorry, I mean effective round. A proper handling of your gun, the grip, trigger control, sight picture, and keeping your cool can increase its efficacy even more.
Is .40 a target or range round? I don't know and honestly don't care. For people who also participate in long-range competitions, it could probably make a certain sense to have a gun chambered in something that can be both -- 357 SIG, .45 ACP, 38 Special, etc. May be .40 is not such caliber -- it's been created purely as a defensive round, with practically no other purpose.
And it serves its purpose so tenaciously.
The best.
Emin
Pat,
You know that your above statement is just shallow and not rue at all, surely you can argue a topic without resorting to that BS.
You should watch what you say because from what I have been reading, the .357sig has had its share of "blowing up guns" you know with the bullet set back and all.
It seems when somebody cant find enough bad things to say about the .40 they always resort to the ol KB factor, to me that just says you ran out of fuel and can no longer argue your point
Read all the posts above, seems clear to me
By the way Pat, I always enjoy debating a topic with you, our arguments have nothing to do with my feelings towards you, I always like debating with a farmiliar name on all the gun boards it is always entertaining to say the least.
Even if my caliber is better than yours!
All the best,
~Jason
You know that your above statement is just shallow and not rue at all, surely you can argue a topic without resorting to that BS.
You should watch what you say because from what I have been reading, the .357sig has had its share of "blowing up guns" you know with the bullet set back and all.
It seems when somebody cant find enough bad things to say about the .40 they always resort to the ol KB factor, to me that just says you ran out of fuel and can no longer argue your point
Read all the posts above, seems clear to me
By the way Pat, I always enjoy debating a topic with you, our arguments have nothing to do with my feelings towards you, I always like debating with a farmiliar name on all the gun boards it is always entertaining to say the least.
Even if my caliber is better than yours!
All the best,
~Jason
suckersrus
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gary H:
...I gave up some firepower, but gained greater confidence in my ability to defend myself...[/quote]
GaryH, I think you just answered your own question.
Use whatever you have the most confidence in!
That should be the rule.
------------------
Wear your PFD
...I gave up some firepower, but gained greater confidence in my ability to defend myself...[/quote]
GaryH, I think you just answered your own question.
Use whatever you have the most confidence in!
That should be the rule.
------------------
Wear your PFD
Jason no offense was taken. I enjoy our debates too. The KB factor is more of a reloader porblem and its also a problem with certain gun companies not supporting the case enough. There have been some 357 sig KB's but not many. I used to be a big 40 fan but after shooting a 357 sig and getting a taste of the supperior accuracy I could not go back to the 40. I still own a 40 a Walther p99 but when OLYMPIC arms comes out with a 357 sig barrel for it I will not be shooting 40 very much at all. But if you like the 40 great. As for me I will stick with the 357 sig and 45 acp.
PAT
------------------
I intend to go into harms way.
PAT
------------------
I intend to go into harms way.
- Status