Which bolt gun?

Reynolds- That is to bad. I can't wait for the Matches to start again. I can see where in the wind they have a advantage. Kinda strange to mme though. Been shooting matches for a few years now from 600 to 1200, never seen a 300 out there yet.
 
Lange, to answer your direct question (which is excellent)

No, the only reason I don't recommend Remington M700 rifles and their variants is the fact that I have had so many come to my shops here in Wyoming and in years past in Nevada and Idaho, needing major repairs.
They break more than all other bolt actions combined. Not an opinion, that is a fact that I can verify from the bond books kept in those shops.

I love the way they feel and look and they are usually quite accurate.
But I just don't trust one for myself.
The 3 major factors are:
1 Problems with triggers and safetys.
2 Bolt handles coming off.
3 Breaking extractors.

If you look in a Midway or a Brownells catalog you will find a LOT of aftermarket triggers offered for the 700 type rifles. Now I'll grant you also find them for most other rifles too, but all the other models of rifles get triggers changed out for reasons of feel, not usually for the reason of safety.

In those catalogs you also find "Sako style extractor kits" for M700s.
Why?
Because it is a very good up-grade.

Ask yourself why only military surplus rifles (which get bubbaed a LOT) and Remington extractors are offered as "general fare" in these catalogs.

No extractor conversions for Winchesters, Mossbergs, Savages, SAKOs, Tikkas, Rugers, Brownings, Winchesters, HOWAs, Weatherbys, Blazers, CZs, and only replacement extractors for military rifles (not conversions) All those extractors seem to work well enough that there is no industry to supply a conversion for them, as they would not sell enough to make it viable. But there is for the M700.

So, in a nut shell I can say with 100% honesty that I have no other reason for withholding my recommendation to buy a Remington.

And Remington did and could make a super good bolt action! Remember in the pre-DuPont days Remington manufactured some of the very best bolt actions ever made. They were the M30s, 30Ss and 720s.
Those were outstanding rifles.

Remington says they can't do it anymore because they cost too much to make.
Remember Winchester said the same thing in 1964?
But today you can get a Model 70 that is as good and in some details better than what Winchester produced in the 40s and 50s.
So I don't buy Remington's "reason" that "they can't".
I do accept their reason that they wont. They WONT make a rifle I can feel total confidence in, so I WONT buy what they make instead. Pretty simple business proposition. A straight forward offer, and rejection of that offer.
I do not consider them to be worth their asking price.


So I always recommend rifles that I know will not come back on me later.
As a gunsmith it is very bad business to tell someone to buy something that later breaks. Then they remember what I said and it makes me look incompetent.

I should thank Remington for their business attitude I guess, because I make money on the repairs, but I want to be honest when I am asked by a shooter what I would recommend.

I no longer run a gun store, but I did at one time. In fact I ran 3 of them in 3 different places at times in my life. I make guns on a custom basis too, and I have done so for 44 years.
So it is safe to say that excluding only the most costly of rifles, I could have about any rifle I want.

I own no 700s 721s or 722s.

I have owned the M30s. It is an outstanding rifle. I have used a few of the 720s and I think they were excellent. I have a very high degree or respect for their old 1917 Military rifle too. I have owned many Remingtons at various times.
I also own or have owned Rugers, Marlins Winchesters,Savage, SAKO CZs Mausers, Styer, Springfields, Weatherbys, and a variety of guns made on various actions from various nations.

If you want to know what is good when you go to a restaurant you can often do well by asking the chief what he would order.

Asking a skilled contractor to make your house as if he were making it for his own family and himself will get you his best work and best recommendations.

Ask a surgeon what other surgeon he would go to if he needed surgery if you want to know who is good at his trade.

Well when I am asked what I would buy for myself I tell people.

And I tell them why.
 
I had a snow blower shp tell me they loved the MTD. I was a bit set back as I found them somewhat usless. He then cracked up and said it was what kept him in business.

What you want to do is recommend the 700 to stay in business! (ethics aside of course)


Most interesting. Also Tika has some reputation for breaking and hard to get parts.

It does seem like those are fairly easily corrected issues if the rifle suits you needs (in the case of the 30-06 HB no one else carries one of those)

Going in if you know what can go wrong you can add that to it and assess so the information is good to know. A shame to think they won't fix that stuff.

I will note that the 1917 was virtually nothing to do with Remington from any design standpoint. It was designed in Britain as the P13 in a 270 caliber, evolved in the P14 in 303 and then adapted to 30-06.

On Remington's part it was just a copy of what was done (along with Winchester and Eddystone). It had to meet military standards as did all of them so they had not choice but to meet the quality requirement.
 
"I will note that the 1917 was virtually nothing to do with Remington from any design standpoint. It was designed in Britain as the P13 in a 270 caliber, evolved in the P14 in 303 and then adapted to 30-06.

On Remington's part it was just a copy of what was done (along with Winchester and Eddystone). It had to meet military standards as did all of them so they had not choice but to meet the quality requirement."


Correct.
But that has nothing to do with my point either.
John Browning designed a lot of successful Winchester and Remington designs, just as the Enfield Arsenal of England designed the 1914, which was modified into the 1917.

But Remington made them, and made them well.

Remington thought so highley of the action that they kept on making it in the variations of the M30, M30S and the 720.

That was the point I was making. Remington has made super good bolt actions in the past, but now they simply offer the 700 and variations of it.
I believe that you can make a reliable rifle from them by screw reinforcing the bolt root, replacing the trigger and milling the bolt for a SAKO extractor, but spending $700 and more (sometimes a LOT more) on a rifle and then having to do such work seems counterproductive when you can simply buy a Winchester, CZ, Ruger, Savage, or Howa and get more rifle for your dollar.
 
Another vote here for the Winchester model 70. For a long range target rifle you might be better served with one of the 6.5mm/.264 calibers. But I would just go with a 270 or 30-'06.
 
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