Which bolt gun?

S

saudst

New member
I'm having a struggle deciding which way to go on probably one of my last gun purchases for a while. I want a rig that will reach further than my 25/06, fairly inexpensive to load for and about $1000 total. I have settled on 2 guns and really can't decide so I'd like to pass it by you.

One is a savage 111 long range hunter 300 win. mag.
The other is a Rem. 700 long range 300 win. mag.

I have heard about the Savages being very accurate, but never owned one. My 25/06 is a Rem. 700 BDL and the most accurate gun I have ever shot, though it's a 1972 vintage. But I read years ago how Kenny Garrett stopped using the 700 action for his bean field rifles. I can't remember why, something to do with how they were being manufactured and how he was unable to meet his accuracy guaranty. Thank you for your time, Tim.
 
I have 3 savage rifles, an 11 in 7-08 and a 12 in .308, and a 114 in .300 win mag.

11, and 114 are stock and shoot just under sub moa out to 300 yards.
My 12 just has a shortened and recrowned barrel and it shoots 1/3 moa at 300 yards. I haven't been able to put them on paper further than 300 yards but have hit steel longer distances.



They are amazingly accurate rifles. I swear by them.

Another bonus to the savage actions is a barrel swap is an extremely easy task granted you have the correct go/no go gauges and barrel wrench.

I have nothing to say for Remington rifles, because I have never owned one, but I know guys who swear by those as well.
 
Although those rifles named are very good shooters. I think a Weatherby Vanguard Accuguard with its fluted factory barrel would serve the purpose much better. Having a guaranteed sub-MOA out of the box and /or targeting less than 2" at 200 yards I highly doubt the others (Sav & Rem) can match without some additional custom accuracy work being done. If you happen to be a home reloader the Weatherby's accuracy is bound to improve. Again if your like most of us everyday shooters who shoot their rifle benched rest for enjoyment. Having the ability to change out its a barrel is nice to know~~ but ~~likely never done. Here's a link to see your 300 mag. You'll see. Oh such a nice rifle the video clip alone makes me want to go out and buy one. :o

http://www.weatherby.com/products/rifles/vanguard/vanguardr-accuguard.html
 
Are you looking to punch paper or hunt? If you're hunting, what type of game? How far do you want to shoot?

The 300 Mags are one of the few that will still have enough energy at 1000 yards to put down game. But for paper punching at those ranges there are better options with far less recoil. The 6.5 Creedmoor is proving to be the winner in accuracy at longer ranges, has about 1/2 the recoil of 300 WM and will be considerably cheaper to load for.

The rifle choice is more personal than anything. Most factory rifles designed as target rifles will probably shoot better than most men behind the trigger. You'll most likely have to go the custom route to get true accuracy.

If I were looking for a long range factory rifle on a budget I'd start with the Ruger Precision Rifle. Street prices are $1,000-$1,200. You might find one within your budget.

http://ruger.com/products/precisionRifle/models.html
 
I used to shoot a 300 Win mag target rifle( a VERY accurate one in fact) that weighed in around 11-12#. Even that weight wasn't enough to bring the recoil to a "controllable" level. I had to quit using it due to joint pain causing me to simply not shoot the rifle to potential.
With this amount of recoil, shooter input is very important to the long range accuracy. Vertical stringing will show up as the rifle moves more or less for each round.
Guess what my current choice of accurate long range rifle is now--25/06.
 
Your choice of brand is personal. I've owned/shot both brands and like them, each has their pros and cons. In the end I would not hesitate to get either for my next purchase. The most important thing to me would be how does the Savage feel to you compared to the 700? For me both rifles shoulder nicely, for you it may be different.

300 Winchester Mag, I shot one for years on elk and mule deer hunts. Lots of recoil and range sessions were painful after the first few shots, which caused me to to finally sell it and move on to a 7WSM in a heavier rifle. In all the years I toted that 300 with me into the field there was only one time I shot at something that I would not have shot at if I had my 30-06. I got that animal so I guess it was worth it :D
 
At the moment, I prefer Savage to Remington. My biggest gripe with Remington at the moment is their lawyered up triggers. To me, the new Remington triggers are awful.
 
I have 9 Savages now. take it for what it's worth, but I had Rem, Win, and a Wheatherby, while they shot good, they all got traded in on savages. Sub MOA from the cheapest Savage you can get (Axis) is a cake walk for them. The Stocks are not the best, but that is a 100.00 upgrade and your done. Also as stated, barrel swap is so easy and takes about 15 minutes to do. Buy one gun and 4 different Barrels:D
 
Why not go classic and choose a Winchester model 70 in .30/06? The 06 is a handloader's dream, and the Model 70 speaks for itself. I have two, one being a brand new model by FN. It's a beautiful rifle and is accurate with 180 Partition hand loads.
 
What exactly are you hunting, and at what distances?

With proper bullet selection, the .25-06 is going to realistically have the same ballpark range and effectiveness as the .300 Win. Mag., and will do so with less powder and recoil.

I think someone at one time made 140-gr. bullets in .25 caliber, but even the 120-gr. bullets commonly available would be a good downrange choice.
 
My .243 is a rem 700 1971 model when I got it, it had only been fired 17 times. Dad gave it to me on my 21st Christmas. With a box that had 17 empties and 3 rounds. First 2 rounds out of that rifle would go in the same hole, third would be .25 high every time. I fired it at 200 yards. The 2 shots were touching. Decided not to fire a third.
 
Decision time.

Thanks for all the info, can count on you as usual. I am getting ready to join a rifle club near where I live that has a 600yd. range. They have some high power and other rifle competitions that sound like a blast. Very informal but some rules and their timed. Now I can see that the required 40 rounds would be a problem with the recoil some have talked about with the 300WM. I think I'll spend my money on some better glass for the 25/06 and maybe some Bergers or the like and tune it in for the 300 and 600yds. they shoot at when I join. I can shoot this gun all day and recoil has never been a problem.

Just do me a favor, and don't let my wife know I got talked out of a gun purchase or I'll be dead in the water from now on. Again, thanks for your input, Tim.
 
Buy the Remington. Weighs a bit more. That will help absorb the recoil. However, a .300 Mag will not kill any gamer any deader than your .25-06. There is no comparing the two. Too different.
600 yards is short, long range target shooting, as daft as that sounds. A .300 Mag isn't needed if that the longest distance you have. It can be loaded down though.
 
Tim,

I know you have made your decision, but the Savage in the 308 would certainly do what you wanted.

Whatg I have seen recently is the new Savage long action no longer have the hut with wrench segments but are simply round.

You can cut those off (or piep wrench, some heat to break lock tite). Not sure why.

The short actions still have what I call the segmented nut.

I got to shoot both, mine and my brothers. His first reloads were amazing accurate out of the Remington but its a hard one to figure out as it has a very long throat (where do you seat the bullet, and single load if long). I shot his better gthan mine that day by a lot, 3/8 x 5 shots (first one was a flyer) in 3/8 at 110 yds. He had a fine hair scope on it and cross hairs were not good for me and it did that good.

Trigger is bad, the one he got had a good stock which is better than my Savage

With the Savage I have since got the right COAL and getting 5/8 and better groups on a consistent basis. One shoot I got a jaw dropping .250 with 5 shots (Bart B will tell you that's an anomaly and he is right but it sure feels good)

I like the Savage action better but the Remington shoot great so its a visceral thing there.

Long term the 308 when it gets shot out will get re-chambered for 30-06 and then replaced when that gets shot out. I figure that's 10 years down the road.

The barrel change process is simple and a lot of choices of mfg for those and they require no fitting other than setting the head space and tighten the nut. Cost is much lower than a gun smith would have to charge (they have to make money to and that's not a complaint but nice to save where you can)



Savage the trigger is wonderfull out of the box.
 
Rc20, a .308 Winchester is no substitute for a .300 Win. mag. It is like comparing a finishing hammer to a framing hammer. You can frame with a finishing hammer, but it is going to be a long day.;)
 
Reynolds357- You have a good point in comparisions, but the flip side is the 300 will never match the 308 in accuracy either, So it's like 6 of one or half dozen of the other I guess. Myself not being a hunter anymore, I have no use for anthing in a Magnum Caliber. I would like a 338 Lapua, but I don't think I would shoot it as much as I would like to because of cost.
 
I've heard a lot of great feedback about the 700 long range. Getting that aluminum bedded B&C stock and heavy barrel for around the 700$ price tag is a great value really. Seem to be great shooters. I know Remington has had QC issues of late but they still make a good product. Trigger is hit or miss. Some don't mind it like myself because I know how to tinker and adjust them so it's good to me, others donot.

Lookup Mark and Sam after work on YouTube they shoot super extreme range with the 700 LR rifle which really showed me the capabilities about it.


Savage is a great choice too. If it will be for target work and hunting both those rifles are a great choice. I'd just go with whatever you perfer and what feels good to you.
 
4 Runnerman, actually the .300 Win mag in hunting situations will match or exceed the .308 in accuracy once you pass 400 yards. I got beat by a .300 win mag in 1k bench shoot last week that turned in a 2.89 5 shot group at 1k. It backed it up with a 3.1" 5 shot group at 1k. The wind was vicious and my 6mm was faring not so well in the weather. The .300 Win Mag has been a strong presence in 600 yard competition for the last 35 years. I thought the rifle I was shooting against was a.375/30 Ruger. After the shoot, I found out it was a Win. Mag.
 
Wyosmith said:
I would take the Savage over the Remington
Look also at Winchester, Howa, CZ and Ruger
Click to expand...

I'm just curious is there a reason you never recommend a 700 at all? I know I've seen you post that you worked on a lot seen a lot of issues but I'm just curious maybe if that's only reason or otherwise. The OP asked about the 700 LR Model specifically and that model from lots of my research among owners has received lots of good feedback. Yes there's still possible Remington quirks, QC issues, trigger(which is a toss up depending on who you ask, gun still a 700 and all the things with that etc). However even though that particular model has had good feedback would you still recommend against it?

I respect your knowledge sir I am just wondering in this case of that model vs your views of 700s in general from your smithing experience.
 
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