Which 7mm is 7mm?

Personally, when I hear anyone say '7mm', my first thought is Mauser, as in 7x57mm. Then I have to re-evaluate based on where I am or whom I hear talking.

I use the 'WalMart' test: what cartridges in a 7mm do they carry? Those are the ones most likely to be thought of by the average person with a rifle [non-reloader] in the area. In my neck of the woods, it would be 7mm Mag or 7-08.

I keep wondering what those are and this thread has helped me figure them out.

I just wish the local WalMart carried 7x57 for my 1895 Chilean Mauser that has been in my family since at least the 60s, or .300Savage for my Savage model 99.
 
Interesting point about ballistic twins.

Classic example of this is probably the .270 Win (6.8mm) and the 7x64mm.

Ballistically very similar over the common cartridge weights for the both (say 130-150 gr). Only difference being that the 7x64 has ammo available in 170+ grs which the .270Win does not.

The 7x64 actually came about in 1917 (Designed by Brenneke no less) and the 270Win in 1925 (I think those are the correct dates, please update me if wrong).

The reason the .270 came about is probably because the N American market wanted that sort of performance (as had the European Mkt) but there was a lot of '06 cartridge brass, actions and tooling set up so made economic sense.

Same can be said of the 7x57 and 7-08 as raised earlier. Very similar in many ways ballistically, just slightly different cartridges pushing the same bullet.

The 7x57: Effective hunting and military round developed from the German military standard 8x57mm (having actions / brass / tool etc ready to go)

7-08: Another 7mm going roughly the same speed but developed from the currently very common .308W/x51mm Nato cartridge.

What I'm driving at is you often get similar performance in different ways due to cost / parts availabilty / tooling etc

ATB,

Scrummy
 
The 7x57: Effective hunting and military round developed from the German military standard 8x57mm (having actions / brass / tool etc ready to go)
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Was it? I thought the 7x57 came out around 1893, before the 7.92x57. I thought Mausers had some round ball ammo they pushed out of the chamber with black powder back around 1888 and that they switched to the smokeless powder with the 7x57, then developed a 7.92x57 smokeless round for the action around 1904/1905.

IIRC, the 7.92x57mm was a cartridge revision that developed after the 7x57mm. When I was growing up, I remember being told that the 7x57mm was the 'granddaddy' to the 8mm Mauser, the 30-06 and the revised .303Enfield, as it performed so well in Cuba and in the Boer War that it inspired other countries to up the ante in the cartridge game.

Sorry. I was just hoping for clarity, as I thought the 7x57 egg came before the 8mm Mauser [7.92x57] chicken. ;)
 
Well, then, here's a question for you folks. Why are there different Mauser military cartridges and why isn't the 6.5 one of them?

There is the 7x57 Mauser, the 7.65x53 Mauser, and of course the 7.92 Mauser, which the German army seemed to refer to as 7,9. At least someone claims the 6.5x55 Mauser is not a Mauser. Why not?
 
"the 7.92x57mm was a cartridge revision that developed after the 7x57mm."

Wrong...

The 7.9X57mm came out in 1888 BEFORE the 7X57mm.

The 7.92X57mm was just a minor change/revision to the original 7.9X57mm, groove increased from .318" to .323".

T.
 
Well, then, here's a question for you folks. Why are there different Mauser military cartridges and why isn't the 6.5 one of them?
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There is a 6.5X57, introduced in 1893, but it was never adopted by any government as a military cartridge. It is slightly more powerful than the 6.5X55mm Swedish cartridge. Mauser also developed the 6X57mm (just think, 6mm Remington 75 years before Remington thought about it), 7X57, 7.5X57 (yes, that is 30 caliber), 8X57, 9X57 (.356"), 9.3X57 (.366"), 9.5X57 (.375"), 10.15X57 (.410"), and 10.75X57 (.424"). All based on the 57mm case. Then there was the Mauser 54mm case . . .

BTW, one of the things Mauser had patented was the case design, which they used to successfully plead their case on patent infringement against the US Government. Even though the 30 Government cartridge of 1903 was longer, it used their case head size.

6.5X55 was developed jointly by Mauser and the Swedish military and adopted by the Swedish military in 1894. 7.65X53 was developed and adopted by Belgium but is famous as the 7.65 Argentine cartridge here in the US.
 
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"the 7.65x53 Mauser"

It is the "7.65X53mm BELGIAN" cartridge but better know in the US as the "7.65X53mm ARGENTINE" cartridge.

Was adopted by Belgium and some South American countries and like Scorch mentioned with the 6.5X55mm Swedish cartridge, named after the country that adopted it first.

T.
 
es·o·ter·ic/ˌesəˈterik/
Adjective:
Intended for or likely to be understood by only a small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest.
Synonyms:
occult - private - mystic

:D;)
 
Sorry, I should have been clearer.

My point is more about market penetration and wide usage than what came first as a strict technical development.

So, what I'm saying is that there are various rounds that have similar performance, often achieved in different ways and coming from slightly different stand points.

7mm seems to be a popular calibre to develop as for many shooters it seems to be about the "sweet-spot", for deer sized game at least. (And before the pedants jump on me, yes, I am making a broad generalisation).

So 7mm be in energy terms:

Fairly mild eg:
7-08
7x57

Medium eg:
7x64
280
.270 Win (I know more like 6.8x64 in terms of the metric system but I think ballistically so close out on an off the shelf sporter with factory ammo we're splitting hairs)

Hot:
7mm Magnums - Various.

My apologies again for the generalities to the cartridge pedants but that is what the OP started the thread with so that is how I answered.

Enjoy your shooting (that means leaving the books and reloading room!)

ATB,

Scrummy
 
Fairly mild eg:
7-08
7x57

Medium eg:
7x64
280
.270 Win (I know more like 6.8x64 in terms of the metric system but I think ballistically so close out on an off the shelf sporter with factory ammo we're splitting hairs)

Hot:
7mm Magnums - Various.
Click to expand...

Sure that's fine. Things even out when you compare commercial loads to hand loads, hot to mild etc.
imho within certain limits any of the standard cartridges will work fine on American game and most can be very good target rounds.
The rifle and the shooter have more to do with results than cartridge,
 
280Rem the other 7mm

The 280Rem is probably the most overlooked 7mm round that is available to the American hunter. This round has the shoulder moved forwarded .051" so It cannot be mistakenly chambered in either 30/06 or the 270, as a result of the shoulder being moved forward it will hold several grains more powder than the 270 or the 30/06. Since this caliber is more often found in an auto rifle it is loaded down and provides similar ballistics as the 270/30/06 chambering at lower pressure to accomadate the auto action. In a modern bolt action rifle this round can be loaded to its full potential and is every bit the equal and usually surpasses the 270 when loaded to equal pressures. With that said I have two rifles in this caliber, a Ruger M77 Hawkeye in SS/Syn stock that is a tack driver (less than 1" consistently) when loaded with Nosler SP Solid bases bullets and 54grs of H4831. My second 280Rem is a Winchester Model 70 Featherweight built in South Carolina that shoots 1" groups, not quite as small as the Ruger but perfectly adequet out to 300yds. I like all my rifles or I wouldn't have them, these two rifles rate as my favorites, usually I will have one or the other when hunting! William
 
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