Where have all the Gun-Smiths Gone?

Dave,

Do you think it's possible to be a good businessman, making a good living, and be a good gunsmith, or is "real" smithing only something that those not wishing to be financially successful should aspire to achieve? You've mentioned several times, somewhat defensively, that you're not a machinist. Is having machinist's skills a detriment to running a profitable gunsmithing operation?
 
Sorry you think I am "Somewhat Defensive" about my lack of desire to be a machinist. I was a Managing Director for three of my own Corporations before getting into Law Enforcement which led to the gun work I started doing for fellow officers. Dick Nixon got the first two business's, and Jimmy Carter got the real estate firm. Then I went out as an Independent Broker for six developers and cleaned up some land projects for them. I did that while I was a deputy sheriff.

I think to be a Gunsmith iin the year 2005 you would have to be a very good machinist with about a $100,000.00 machine shop to do well as a Gunsmith. The good ones can make any part for any gun and they are very talented people. The delemia is how to be successful without paying your dues and creating a customer base that likes what they hear about you and your great work. There is no secret to owning your own business. You just work twice as hard for half the money! That is the bad news, and the good news is that you have a great boss! There is a story about a wealthy man that became a great gunsmith until he ran out of money.

It takes capitol to purchase tools and space. Either you have to make enough money somewhere else and then spend it on setting up shop somewhere that there is a customer base and then hope some jerk that you did work for doesn't lie about your work and kill your business and your reputation for you. Going to a gunsmith school will not teach you how to run a business or become highly skilled. That takes time in the ranks and while you aquire the needed skills, who pays the rent?

I just do not have a good answer for anyone that thinks they want to be a gunsmith. I could open up again and build some guns, but that thought is a nightmare for me. I would rather live in poverty than do that. Too many jerks with guns, around here. I have always had the very best machinists to help me with the machine work I require so I never had to become one. That stuff is hard work!

I have to confess that I always wanted to have a Smitty/Mill/Drill/Lathe just to play with, but I just don't have the room for it now. I think that would be lots of fun.
 
Little more on that

I have been smithing for almost 8 years now. when I first started doing gun work, a lathe was only a pipe dream of mine and a Mill was even further off down the road. I did good work and learned about the guns as I went along. As to whether or not a smith can do good business without a lathe, yes he can. Can he do better work using a lathe, yes and no. A good man with a lathe can do a lot of work that cannot be done any other way. Now a days, they are making tools that you can use without the aid of a machine simply by turning them with a wrench. Lathe work and gun work are sometimes two very different animals. If a mchinist wants to be a gunsmith, he will still need to learn how the guns work. If a gunsmith wants to learn to use a lathe, he will have the knowledge of the gun already, and will have to learn how to run a lathe. These two don't necessarily go hand in hand, but both will benefit from the other. Since I went back and learned how to operate machinery, ie the lathe nd the mill, I feel my knowledge has increased, but the lathe didn't increase my knowledge of gunsmithing, only simplified how I do a lot fo my work. If you are a machinist and want to learn how to be a gunsmith you will be in the same boat in that being a machinist didn't make being a gunsmith any easier, it just made how you do the work simpler. I farmed out machininst work for years, even before I became a gunsmith I operated a welding business. I farmed out the machinist work and charged what it cost me and still made money on my labor, you can do the same thing as a smith. Can you make more money doing it yourself, it just depends on how good you become. If a man that does the machine work everyday can turn out the work in 1/2 the time, I would say you were better off letting him do the work if he charges you a fair amount for the work. If you become good at running a lathe and mill then by all means you can save time by doing the work in house, it just doesn't mean you make more money necessarily, just that you do the work and know how it was done. You have to weigh the expense of the machinery, plus the electricity to operate it, plus the down time of the other work in the shop versus what it costs to farm it out. It will normally be very close in expense, and you will have to decide if it is worth it.
 
Gunsmith in North Hollywood, Ca?

I met a very nice gentleman when I lived in the San Fernando Valley area of L.A. a few years back, probably '99, 2000 He was a gunsmith/Class 2 manufacturer and did very good work. He and his ex-business partner had even developed a double-barrel machine-gun in .45 caliber for law-enforcement that he had pictures of a few years before I met him. As he was getting sick of the laws of the People's Republic of Feinstein, he was planning a move to Arizona. Coincidentally, I have since moved to Yuma, AZ, and would like to get in touch with him. Does this ring a bell with anyone who used to live, or still does live in the L.A. area? I have no idea what his business was called, but it was located in an industrial complex near one of the landing paths to Burbank Airport. Anyone?
 
I'd really like to know the answer to that myself... Recient situation---a friend of mine has a Magnum Research SSP "Lone Eagle" in .22-250... Last fall the firing pin broke. Well, being the local gun-know-it-all, he asked me to see what could be done to fix it. After a week of trying everything I could think of--phone calls (to Magnum Research themselves mind you), internet searches, aftermarket dealers, etc., anything and everything I could think of to find a new firing pin, I finally ended up just saying to hell with it and spun out a new pin on a make-shift lathe in my livingroom. Now, I'm not condoning such behavior, I DO know what I'm doing with metals, etc, just don't have a full shop available. So the finished replacement was within less than 1/1000" of the original on all dimensions except for the finger length (the part that broke off) which I dialed down easily enough. now the weapon has fired clean for several hundred shots and all is well. The point is that I think the actual trade of gunsmithing is being outdated by the mass-produced weapons we're seeing more often and the actual art behind the weapon itself is lost to the masses. Those with both the knowledge and the interest that can benifit the art are fewer and farther between.
 
They went the way of the dinosaur.

Same place the machinist went. I know, Ive been a machinist/toolmaker for 40 years. I used to do a good amount of gun work, even though I would not call myself a gunsmith, until I became sick and tired of all the "experts" walking through the door and asking me to do something dangerous or illegal. Our society is indeed sick. College boys get an education in booze and skirt chasing, get a degree in animal husbandry, then go to a big company and get hired as the supervisor of a machine shop where they give orders to men who have been "doing it" for longer than the little geek has been on the earth! And you wonder why the truly gifted craftsmen of America have gone undercover? I work out of my garage with nothing but rudimentary machinery and make a decent living without the horse-hockey I used to put up with. Rant over. :eek:
 
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