I have read articles that state the AR has become the rifle of choice by sportsmen, hunters and target shooters alike. It is a fantastic rifle easily customized to your liking, very accurate and not all that expensive. There is a lot of good to say about the AR. Would all this bad publicity be going on if the military did not have the M16, would the AR still be called an assault weapon if there was no connection to the military ? What about all the other semi-auto rifles ? It needs to be realized that the gun is not the problem, its the people that have mental issues and the terrorists that is the problem. We need to have more help available to the mentally challenged and get rid of the terrorists. One other thing to think about is that all the mass shootings have happened in gun free zones, why do you suppose that is ?
Where do we stand in the current fight?
- Thread starter Kimio
- Start date
There has been a strategic shift by the big anti-gun groups in the fight for more gun control. The realization has set in that the Congress isn’t going to pass anything in the near future, so they are now focusing on legislation at the State level. This is paying off for them with victories in places like New York, Colorado, and Washington State. As these States limit access to guns fewer people will join the shooting community and will become more likely to support gun control at the national level. Also, with continued population shifts as more people move south many traditional pro-gun States may be surprised just like the folks in Colorado. No, the battle is far from over just entering a different phase.
Despite the negativity from some current events, it's better than it has been in decades.
National Reciprocity is on the verge of passing Congress - it's just some votes away and when it is reintroduced, again, it can and will happen. Then CA and other states will once again be reminded that Constitutional Rights exist regardless of their local interpretation.
In terms of CCW there are a few holdouts that "may" issue permits when they do, on the other side there are State legislatures passing CCW with NO permit as allowable.
Silencers are now much more widely used and acceptable for target shooting and hunting. A bill was introduced to take them out of the NFA for personal health issues as not having them contributes to the loss of hearing for the public overall. This is a direct attack on the NFA in an area it's extremely weak, and sets a precedence to examine what other changes are possible.
The ATF is dealing with an FOIA request to release ALL their opinion letters concerning what does and does not constitute their view on legal and illegal gun configurations. Once released - and there are about 30 file cabinets full - there will be repercussions as Congress and some lawyers push to reconcile basic contradictions.
The past few years have shown the public isn't buying the anti gun rhetoric. After the NY SAFE act was passed, the majority of Sherriffs signed a public declaration they would not enforce any of it's provisions. This only highlights the growing alienation of the public and those who aspire to high office.
Case in point, one (female) liberal Candidate for President proposed we look at confiscation along the lines of Australia, where they are now passing legislation to take guns without compensation. In the past the owners were paid out of a tax hike, on everyone. It got some buzz for a day or two and has largely been ignored - I think because she was just saying out loud what has been believed all along, that there is NO respect for Constitutional Rights in her world view. It was taken with a resounding, Well, duh! We know this is what she wants.
And, best of all in terms of propaganda value, the President goes out of his way to make guns an issue by actually lying about it. His statement IN PARIS that mass shootings only happen in America even took the French press aback. There response was muted and polite, but anyone with internet access can get the numbers. The US is much safer than France in that regard.
Americans have bought more guns recently than ever - and our crime rates with murder are still going down. The major issue is where no guns are still allowed - like Chicago, where there is now CCW and even a gun store. Things are changing for the better, even tho most posters prefer doom and gloom about it.
I won't chastise them too much - they keep us in the loop about what to be aware of and how soon to prepare for things. I just know to take them with a grain of salt in the long run. Things are going much better than ever - so much so that when the extremes of disarmament are discussed, what we now read on the internet are polite descriptions of citizens arming themselves to resist an oppressive government, with about 50% of LEO/MIL right there next to them. And that speculative scenario is summed up in It Won't Happen, because those who are pushing for disarmament are now just trying to get a few small victories where they can in the face of a wave of gun rights getting better.
If you are carrying a CCW you only could get in the last 15 years you know these are the facts.
National Reciprocity is on the verge of passing Congress - it's just some votes away and when it is reintroduced, again, it can and will happen. Then CA and other states will once again be reminded that Constitutional Rights exist regardless of their local interpretation.
In terms of CCW there are a few holdouts that "may" issue permits when they do, on the other side there are State legislatures passing CCW with NO permit as allowable.
Silencers are now much more widely used and acceptable for target shooting and hunting. A bill was introduced to take them out of the NFA for personal health issues as not having them contributes to the loss of hearing for the public overall. This is a direct attack on the NFA in an area it's extremely weak, and sets a precedence to examine what other changes are possible.
The ATF is dealing with an FOIA request to release ALL their opinion letters concerning what does and does not constitute their view on legal and illegal gun configurations. Once released - and there are about 30 file cabinets full - there will be repercussions as Congress and some lawyers push to reconcile basic contradictions.
The past few years have shown the public isn't buying the anti gun rhetoric. After the NY SAFE act was passed, the majority of Sherriffs signed a public declaration they would not enforce any of it's provisions. This only highlights the growing alienation of the public and those who aspire to high office.
Case in point, one (female) liberal Candidate for President proposed we look at confiscation along the lines of Australia, where they are now passing legislation to take guns without compensation. In the past the owners were paid out of a tax hike, on everyone. It got some buzz for a day or two and has largely been ignored - I think because she was just saying out loud what has been believed all along, that there is NO respect for Constitutional Rights in her world view. It was taken with a resounding, Well, duh! We know this is what she wants.
And, best of all in terms of propaganda value, the President goes out of his way to make guns an issue by actually lying about it. His statement IN PARIS that mass shootings only happen in America even took the French press aback. There response was muted and polite, but anyone with internet access can get the numbers. The US is much safer than France in that regard.
Americans have bought more guns recently than ever - and our crime rates with murder are still going down. The major issue is where no guns are still allowed - like Chicago, where there is now CCW and even a gun store. Things are changing for the better, even tho most posters prefer doom and gloom about it.
I won't chastise them too much - they keep us in the loop about what to be aware of and how soon to prepare for things. I just know to take them with a grain of salt in the long run. Things are going much better than ever - so much so that when the extremes of disarmament are discussed, what we now read on the internet are polite descriptions of citizens arming themselves to resist an oppressive government, with about 50% of LEO/MIL right there next to them. And that speculative scenario is summed up in It Won't Happen, because those who are pushing for disarmament are now just trying to get a few small victories where they can in the face of a wave of gun rights getting better.
If you are carrying a CCW you only could get in the last 15 years you know these are the facts.
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carguychris
New member
IMHO BarryLee's post is spot-on. The reality is that the makeup of the House of Representatives is unlikely to undergo a seismic shift in the short term, and the likely result is little or no significant action being taken on a federal level.
I think the next major threat is going to be restrictive states doing 2 things:
I think the next major threat is going to be restrictive states doing 2 things:
- Eliminating all grandfather clauses for detachable magazines in excess of X rounds
- Enacting stringent registration requirements, likely including absolutely anything semi-automatic this time
2ndsojourn
New member
From tirod:
"The past few years have shown the public isn't buying the anti gun rhetoric."
I'd like to think so too but I'm not so sure. Have you seen clips of the "(female) candidate for President" campaign rallies? Hearing the cheering of the audience of her lies? ie: gun show loophole, Republicans want more guns, the NRA lobby, and repeal of the manufacturer's immunity law, blah, blah, blah? I think most of her political party really believes her rubbish, and a good portion of the remainder are too misinformed to distinguish the real truth from fiction.
Last night I saw a NRA commercial with Wayne LaPierre aired on Fox. I thought it was good and liked it, but who, other than me watches Fox?
I tried to link it here but it wouldn't work, but you can see it on NRA's website. Where this would be effective is during shows that the idiots watch during prime time. It wouldn't surprise me if the networks refuse to air it, or at least charge more, and I don't think the NRA has the money or advertising budget to match Cialis or General Motors, so few people are going to see it.
At a time lie this, that commercial could be quite compelling, and certainly help win the fight.
"The past few years have shown the public isn't buying the anti gun rhetoric."
I'd like to think so too but I'm not so sure. Have you seen clips of the "(female) candidate for President" campaign rallies? Hearing the cheering of the audience of her lies? ie: gun show loophole, Republicans want more guns, the NRA lobby, and repeal of the manufacturer's immunity law, blah, blah, blah? I think most of her political party really believes her rubbish, and a good portion of the remainder are too misinformed to distinguish the real truth from fiction.
Last night I saw a NRA commercial with Wayne LaPierre aired on Fox. I thought it was good and liked it, but who, other than me watches Fox?
I tried to link it here but it wouldn't work, but you can see it on NRA's website. Where this would be effective is during shows that the idiots watch during prime time. It wouldn't surprise me if the networks refuse to air it, or at least charge more, and I don't think the NRA has the money or advertising budget to match Cialis or General Motors, so few people are going to see it.At a time lie this, that commercial could be quite compelling, and certainly help win the fight.
One of the victims of the CA Massacre (present but not shot) stated if more people were armed, we could have fared better.
Now let us look at the components of this blood bath. Radical Islam Husband, American Born. Radical Wife from the Middle East.
Groups of seemed to be Muslim Men visiting their Garage.
Said Garage, a Bomb making factory! Dozens of pipe bombs found there, also thrown into rented party room. Reason they did not explode, they were to far from the remote.
The weapons and magazines used, not able to be purchased in California? It made a difference? No Sir. The attack in Paris, France. Full auto AK 47s, buy them in Europe, anywhere? No Sir, again.
Now, remember the Police Chief of DC? Doing her best to stop the issuing of the CCWs, even after the Courts decision saying she had to do it.
Two days ago, she said "The answer to these type of attacks, before the Police arrive, people with guns!"
And our President says "Workplace Violence" at a rented room, for a Holiday Party. Do not remember if it was a Christmas Party or not.
Tactical gear, masks, body cams, body armor, pistol, hi Cap! AR15s 30 round mag's.
Each!
Well planned? You bet. Do I expect more of the same in Mickey's Town? Does anyone know of a better target? Just now. Visitors fleeing winter.
Me, Glock 19 4thgen, 16 rounds of 147g Ranger T, ex. Mag, G17, 17 rounds of same. A great flashlight, and a good folder.
For my taking on Islam? No, every day carry for years. Just in case? No, because I can.
The first of the sleeper cell attacks.
Now let us look at the components of this blood bath. Radical Islam Husband, American Born. Radical Wife from the Middle East.
Groups of seemed to be Muslim Men visiting their Garage.
Said Garage, a Bomb making factory! Dozens of pipe bombs found there, also thrown into rented party room. Reason they did not explode, they were to far from the remote.
The weapons and magazines used, not able to be purchased in California? It made a difference? No Sir. The attack in Paris, France. Full auto AK 47s, buy them in Europe, anywhere? No Sir, again.
Now, remember the Police Chief of DC? Doing her best to stop the issuing of the CCWs, even after the Courts decision saying she had to do it.
Two days ago, she said "The answer to these type of attacks, before the Police arrive, people with guns!"
And our President says "Workplace Violence" at a rented room, for a Holiday Party. Do not remember if it was a Christmas Party or not.
Tactical gear, masks, body cams, body armor, pistol, hi Cap! AR15s 30 round mag's.
Each!
Well planned? You bet. Do I expect more of the same in Mickey's Town? Does anyone know of a better target? Just now. Visitors fleeing winter.
Me, Glock 19 4thgen, 16 rounds of 147g Ranger T, ex. Mag, G17, 17 rounds of same. A great flashlight, and a good folder.
For my taking on Islam? No, every day carry for years. Just in case? No, because I can.
The first of the sleeper cell attacks.
My points that I keep making to friends and family:
- Morons walking the streets with ARs to "exercise their 2nd ammendment rights" because they can... are idiots. Sorry, no apologies. The 2nd amendment was so that people could own guns and protect themselves... not to flash it around because they could. All this does is scare people and cause more harm to the "cause" than anything.
- Mental illness is a huge issue, but making a national database for mental illness is going to cause fewer people to come forward to get help. There is already a huge stigma... there needs to be a solution, but I don't know what it is!
- [I'm Going to get blasted on this one] Background checks should be done on all firearm purchases, whether it is a store, a gun show, or selling it to a buddy. If some inconvenience keeps some guns out of some criminals or crazy people's hands? So be it. Do they need a more efficient background system? Absolutely. Will this stop people from BECOMING unstable and hurting people? No. But it will help.
- [I'm Going to get blasted on this one] I am mentally stable. I am responsible. I practice with my weapons systems... I trust myself with weapons. There are a lot of people that aren't "all there" or are irresponsible, or never practice with their weapons... and I don't particularly want those people to have weapons. For me, a weapon is not a right, it is a privilege, to be worked towards, and earned.
- Morons walking the streets with ARs to "exercise their 2nd ammendment rights" because they can... are idiots. Sorry, no apologies. The 2nd amendment was so that people could own guns and protect themselves... not to flash it around because they could. All this does is scare people and cause more harm to the "cause" than anything.
- Mental illness is a huge issue, but making a national database for mental illness is going to cause fewer people to come forward to get help. There is already a huge stigma... there needs to be a solution, but I don't know what it is!
- [I'm Going to get blasted on this one] Background checks should be done on all firearm purchases, whether it is a store, a gun show, or selling it to a buddy. If some inconvenience keeps some guns out of some criminals or crazy people's hands? So be it. Do they need a more efficient background system? Absolutely. Will this stop people from BECOMING unstable and hurting people? No. But it will help.
- [I'm Going to get blasted on this one] I am mentally stable. I am responsible. I practice with my weapons systems... I trust myself with weapons. There are a lot of people that aren't "all there" or are irresponsible, or never practice with their weapons... and I don't particularly want those people to have weapons. For me, a weapon is not a right, it is a privilege, to be worked towards, and earned.
Background checks are not enforceable without loosing other rights. That's the beef with those.
One article I read says at least one of the rifles was California compliant... They did note that the California features can be defeated.
I agree, that just because we have rights, we shouldn't offend other people by carrying around an AR15
One article I read says at least one of the rifles was California compliant... They did note that the California features can be defeated.
I agree, that just because we have rights, we shouldn't offend other people by carrying around an AR15
Right off the bat [pun intended], that is in violation of express law in the Constitution.
If that right is to be short-stopped, it must be for extra-ordinary reason...
I agree that mental instability is one of them.
Mentally Unstable"? ..l. there's the rub. Who says? and under what due process
so as to revoke an express Constitutional right? Consider that carefully.
Universal background check: Just what we need to eventually have a national data-
base of both all weapons and their all owners. And no... I do not trust "government".
Neither did the Founders.
Funny thing:
I've seen two politicians this week "there's a law that allows a person to buy a gun even if they're on the no-fly list" not a direct quote, but close.
Le'me guess what law they are talking about?? Hmmm? Let's see. Well there's due process, wait that's constitutional. Or... Could it be the right to bear arms? Oh, wait that's constitutional as well...
Could they possibly mean that the constitution is standing in the way of them stripping rights away from people based on suspicion alone?
That Constitution is pesky
I've seen two politicians this week "there's a law that allows a person to buy a gun even if they're on the no-fly list" not a direct quote, but close.
Le'me guess what law they are talking about?? Hmmm? Let's see. Well there's due process, wait that's constitutional. Or... Could it be the right to bear arms? Oh, wait that's constitutional as well...
Could they possibly mean that the constitution is standing in the way of them stripping rights away from people based on suspicion alone?
That Constitution is pesky
We were told to talk about gun control over Thanksgiving Dinner; The next day we set a record for the largest single day gun sales.
The Day after the SB CA terrorist attack, Three new gun laws went down in flames.
Record gun sales, a soar in CCW permit applications.
I don't think we are loosing, but I don't think we should let up either.
Its an election year. Its hard to get new gun laws passed during an election year. That tells us politicians are leery of voting for gun laws.
We need to keep reminding them via phone, mail, and e-mails, Gun Owners Vote their convictions.
Also, I want to add, call your senators and congressmen/women and demand they remove suppressors from the FFA, this is a safety concern.
The Day after the SB CA terrorist attack, Three new gun laws went down in flames.
Record gun sales, a soar in CCW permit applications.
I don't think we are loosing, but I don't think we should let up either.
Its an election year. Its hard to get new gun laws passed during an election year. That tells us politicians are leery of voting for gun laws.
We need to keep reminding them via phone, mail, and e-mails, Gun Owners Vote their convictions.
Also, I want to add, call your senators and congressmen/women and demand they remove suppressors from the FFA, this is a safety concern.
Owning a gun is a right in the US. It is not a privilege. It is not something to "be worked toward". People who have not one bit of firearms experience have (and should always have) the right to own a firearm.
And, any gun smuggled in from Mexico also easily defeats California's stupid laws.
And, any gun smuggled in from Mexico also easily defeats California's stupid laws.
We are not losing but what about the society we live in?
You have fake horrendous violence everywhere BUT it looks real. Just scroll through the movie channels and it's sometimes hard to find a movie that doesn't have graphic gun violence. Add realistic video games, etc. and you would think we live in a blood thirsty society.
When I was a kid we used to watch a movie where a guy got shot and just fell down, you didn't even see a bullet hole,now there is blood everywhere and stark realism.
About a year or two ago Sylvester Stallone comes out for more gun control at about the same time as his new movie "Bullet to the Head" is being released! What the heck does that tell you? People don't want guns but love to watch gun violence!
One last thing "An armed society is a polite society" The terrorists at SB were heavily armed but probably nearly amateurs. An amateur obviously can do a lot of harm with the firepower they had but one must think that a few well placed .45 ACPs from a CCW with some training could have saved some lives and possibly discourage , somewhat, future attacks.
You have fake horrendous violence everywhere BUT it looks real. Just scroll through the movie channels and it's sometimes hard to find a movie that doesn't have graphic gun violence. Add realistic video games, etc. and you would think we live in a blood thirsty society.
When I was a kid we used to watch a movie where a guy got shot and just fell down, you didn't even see a bullet hole,now there is blood everywhere and stark realism.
About a year or two ago Sylvester Stallone comes out for more gun control at about the same time as his new movie "Bullet to the Head" is being released! What the heck does that tell you? People don't want guns but love to watch gun violence!
One last thing "An armed society is a polite society" The terrorists at SB were heavily armed but probably nearly amateurs. An amateur obviously can do a lot of harm with the firepower they had but one must think that a few well placed .45 ACPs from a CCW with some training could have saved some lives and possibly discourage , somewhat, future attacks.
How about all these training outfits just supply all this training to the public. Apparently even some among us think that we cannot have the right to defend ourselves without training.
Who gets this privilege, veterans? I'm a veteran, but that givese no privilege above a citizen.
Police officers? To me, they're citizens as well.
I never found shooting to be too difficult, so is my standard lower. How many shots gives me this privilege? 50, 100... 10k per year?
Who gets this privilege, veterans? I'm a veteran, but that givese no privilege above a citizen.
Police officers? To me, they're citizens as well.
I never found shooting to be too difficult, so is my standard lower. How many shots gives me this privilege? 50, 100... 10k per year?
kilimanjaro
New member
For the record, Adolf Hitler was elected, and the Jews were sent to camps according to the law.
We have an unequivocal right to overthrow a despotic and evil government, regardless of how it comes to power.
I agree we are not at that point. Let's hope it never comes to pass.
We have an unequivocal right to overthrow a despotic and evil government, regardless of how it comes to power.
I agree we are not at that point. Let's hope it never comes to pass.
Hmmmmmm.....
Selected quotes by Jefferson about 'rebellion':
"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them." --Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, 1787. ME 6:373, Papers 12:356
"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all. I like a little rebellion now and then. It is like a storm in the atmosphere." --Thomas Jefferson to Abigail Adams, 1787.
"Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends [i.e., securing inherent and inalienable rights, with powers derived from the consent of the governed], it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness." --Thomas Jefferson: Declaration of Independence, 1776. ME 1:29, Papers 1:315
"We think experience has proved it safer for the mass of individuals composing the society to reserve to themselves personally the exercise of all rightful powers to which they are competent and to delegate those to which they are not competent to deputies named and removable for unfaithful conduct by themselves immediately." --Thomas Jefferson to Pierre Samuel Dupont de Nemours, 1816. ME 14:487