Where do we stand in the current fight?

K

Kimio

New member
I've been a bit out of the loop due to life events going on. Given the issues with the latest mass shootings (some worse than others) the push for gun control appears to be even more desperate than ever.

How fairs the climate back state side? It's always been an uphill battle, or so it seems, but from what I've been reading, it appears the anti's have not gained a whole lot of ground (yet).
 
We've got a motivated lame duck President with the power of executive orders. Not the end of the world, but not an ideal position. IMHO it's time to present solutions to prevent mass shootings instead of falling back on the same old arguments.

First acknowledge that this is happening way too often, then express sympathy, and then start distributing the many statistics that support gun rights. And perhaps point out that many of our opponents don't trust the police. And finally emphasize the role of mental health issues. But all delivered in a non-confrontational message. Bottom line, let's be the ones with solutions while acknowledging the problem.
 
Its an uphill battle - because "something" just has to be done.

The anti gun sound bites are good, the uninformed and Sheeple will jump on the bandwagon. Quite frankly many people just don't care if their 2nd Amendemnt rights are infringed. Just look at the "Fuds", those shooters and hunters here in the USA that think AR15 and military looking guns are not needed.

Most people don't care, or forget why the Second Amendment is there. And when or if they do it will be too late.

The one thing I do know is that those of us who cherish Freedom and the Constitution need to keep fighting the good fight for our Second Amendment - and ALL other rights.

If we loose gun ownership rights I say let it be fighting all the way using every legal, ethical, and moral way of doing so.

Regards,

Rob
 
Maybe we stop dehumanizing people with terms like "sheeple" and "anti" and start recognizing that none of us want to live in a country where mass shootings are just a part of life.
 
I can't accurately answer your question...but the other side does have a lot of ammunition (so to speak) to work toward more gun control.

I did want to say that what really bothers me (other than the obvious sadness) about these shootings is that no one I know of (including, I think, the NRA) is addressing (what I think is) the real problem here.

I think if there were no guns - you would still be seeing these tragedies happening (whether it be by knife, hatchet, bow & arrow or whatever).
In my opinion it is the state of our society in general that is causing this mental illness and phenomenal violence.

I'm old enough to say that in my lifetime I have seen our society become increasing cold, indifferent, greedy, and sterile...the amount of people who are currently disenfranchised is staggering...with greedy corporations taking nearly ALL our jobs to China (and supplying us with sub-standard products in return)...politicians and CEO's getting away with murder (figuratively and literally)...a medical care system (particularly mental health) that's off limits to those that aren't well off or on welfare (and for those that can access it - works hand in hand with drug companies to keep you "sick" and spending - rather than fit and healthy)...social media sites that have no substance or value...a free press that has lost all integrity and feeds you a steady diet of tabloid style nonsense - covered over at the end with some cute little sugar coating (you will never see another Walter Cronkite or Edward R. Murrow - only Bambi in her glitter make-up - or Todd with the blow dried hair - informing you of practically nothing of use)...two generations now that have been raised without any respect for or awareness of anything of value - spending their time playing with little plastic phones and violent video games...so-called entertainment that glorifies war, criminals, gangsters, and violence..and a fairly distinct general aura that you are not just a number - but are basically of no worth at all (unless, maybe you have a gigantic bank account) - with all that and more - you can certainly expect some very horrible things to happen...and it's actually quite amazing that we're not fighting another civil war here (is that why all the cheap ammo has disappeared?) - but we've been pretty well divided and manipulated by the powers that be for that to come about.

I think the slogan is true that "guns don't kill people, people do" and there is a steadily increasing number of heavily disturbed people out there with no one and nothing available to help them.
So...maybe someone should start pondering a few of those issues before we blame it all on Smith and Wesson (they've been around since 1852 - these shootings have only been occurring since about 1999).

Anyway - that's the way I see it - you can take it with a grain of salt - but I wouldn't expect this violence to end any time soon (even with registered guns).
 
...more desperate than ever.
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desperate is a good descriptor IMO.
I think a lot will hinge on whether this last shooting is firmly linked to "foreign terrorism" or not. It certainly seems to be headed that direction, but no one in power seems ready to commit. If it is linked I don't think gun control advocates will get much yardage out of it. Probably the opposite.

A dozen pipe bombs with remote detonators scares me considerably more than a couple of rifles.
 
The latest shooting has several exotic elements that are exotic because they haven't been connected yet; husband and wife team, a possible terrorism connection, and a workplace conflict. But despite the pipe bombs they killed people with guns. No one is going to use this as an excuse to restrict your plumbing rights.
 
Mainah - I get your point about calling people names. And I agree its not generally conducive to winning people over.

However I think "Sheeple" is an appropriate term, and not as derogatory as what some folks use who do not support 2nd Amendment rights.

As to the "Anti" part - I do not see a problem with that in any way. I am "Pro" Gun. A term which in our language has come to mean a person who supports private gun ownership (2nd Amendment) rights.

So I am not sure how one would describe those who do not support gun ownership (2nd Amendment) rights. Other than call them Anti Gun - maybe Anti Constitutionalists ?!

The bottom line is to me. There is NO acceptable compromise in my opinion with the anti whatever crowd.

How does one compromise with a Cannibal - agree that they only eat one of your legs when they want two ?!

After NFA '34 and GCA '68 there are more than enough laws currently in place. And arguable much of those should be abolished. We do not need any more firearms laws.

Rob
 
The climate stateside changed this week with the San Bernardino terror attack. The left, politicians and media combined, are screaming for gun control laws, from ammunition background checks, bans on 'assault rifles', on the one end of the equation to confiscation and repeal of the 2nd Amendment on the other.

Look for California to pass strict gun laws next fall, there are ballot initiatives on the docket that will make magazines larger than 10 rounds illegal to possess in California, with no grandfather clause. Get rid of them or else kind of legislation. Another is a background check on ammo buyers, presumably there are people who can't own a firearm out there buying ammo, or straw purchasers of ammo for others, that kind of thing. Look for a big state bureaucracy to be required for that one.

Nationally, don't expect much change. State by state, expect lots of changes.

We like to crow about open carry laws, new concealed carry laws, etc., and these are victories, but the reality is less than 10% of the adult population carries a pistol. If it reaches a full 10% that would be a major increase. If the people who were licensed carried every day, that would also be a major change. Juxtapose that with the 100% of the adult population who are angry and concerned about terror shootings and you'll see where the impetus for new laws can happen.
 
Just look at the "Fuds", those shooters and hunters here in the USA that think AR15 and military looking guns are not needed.
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And look at the other side that thinks ARs and other "black guns" are the be-all and end-all of the firearms world. This image does not sit well with many mainstream Americans, whether they are pro or anti, mainly because human nature is to judge books by their cover.

Quite frankly, when I saw pics of those morons walking through the grocery store with their ARs strapped on, I was quite angry. All this does is make the general public more antagonistic towards gun owners. It's the same with logos of skulls or other references to death and destruction on some gun parts or T-shirts or what have you. The function remains the same as any other firearm/part/apparel, but it's the IMAGE. Nobody seems to get that. It upsets Mr. and Mrs. Average American.

Once you have established this type of general notion, be it right or wrong, you have alienated the general population against you, and even the Fudds, as you call them, start thinking negatively about these types of items.

The Second Amendment guarantees your RIGHT to keep and bear arms; It even gives you the right to be an offensive, juvenile anal sphincter that walks around armed and creates negative images among the public. To me, this whole attitude of "because I can" is irresponsible and hostile. With rights come responsibility. I certainly don't begrudge anyone the ownership of whatever type of gun they choose, but, for God's sake people, use a little common sense in that ownership, and be aware of how you present yourself.
 
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There's a roll mark out there with a skull with a bullet hole in it... Frontal and back of the skull on both sides of the receiver... I think it's a real hole.

I saw that and thought it was idiotic.

The S&W M&P line is in the current incident and the media is highlighting the brand as meant for Military and Police use.

So I see where you're coming from, gyvel
 
rickyrick said:
The S&W M&P line is in the current incident and the media is highlighting the brand as meant for Military and Police use.
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Obviously, we need to correct the media that "M&P" actually means "Mom & Pop."
 
We really need to keep guns away from mentally ill people. If not we will wind up with unreasonable gun legislation.
 
Well, since Obama took office, many regulations have been relaxed regarding firearms. You can now carry a firearm in some National Parks, providing you meet the state laws. And Obama signed the bill that will allow the sale of Government owned antique pistols. At the state level, it's easier than it's ever been to get a concealed carry permit, even in the conservative states.

What more do you want?
 
We are at war. For the first time since 1812, America has been invaded by a foreign power. These foreign soldiers are recruiting, planning, and conducting unconventional warfare and guerrilla operations against our people and infrastructure. Our government is in abject denial that a threat even exists. Whether we can win this war is unknown.
 
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the push for gun control appears to be even more desperate than ever.
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I don't see it. From whom? The Obama Administration? Nothing new there. There's no push in by the House or Senate majorities.

In any event, the San Bernardino killings was a clear act of terror. Terrorist attacks don't make good examples for the gun-banners to use for disarming and over-regulating law abiding American citizens. To the contrary, it brings new people to the understanding that only armed individuals can protect themselves against mass slaughters by Jihadists.
 
The biggest mass attack in the US was with a bomb in the 1920s (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster). Guns have no bearing on these attacks. Its like people forget the boston marathon bombing or the knife attack in japan (or china?) a few years back. You can make a bomb with household items and directions you can find on the internet.

Guns are not the problem. Bring up factual information about this stuff. Most gun control advocates are not informed. Some of the main things these people do not know:

Most gun attacks happen in gun free zones

California has the strictest gun control in the nation

50% of research shows gun control works. 50% shows it doesnt. The research is inconclusive so for each study they show you it works you can show them one it doesnt. ie when they bring up australia or whatever.

There are mass shootings that have been stopped by ccw holders. They are not publicized but can be found with a 3 second google search. They are well documented. Here is one example that shows 10 instances - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...civilians-with-guns-ever-stop-mass-shootings/

Guns are carried every day buy tons of people. When you are at the grocery store, walmart, etc there are people walking around with guns - every time you go there and nothing bad ever happened. Most advocates do not realize this. They think making a school a gun zone means that people will be allowed to carry there but dont normally carry every where else.

you have a greater chance of dying falling down (among like 20 other things) then being involved in a shooting ever.

gun control is a bandaid solution to a cancer - the main problem is that our country is going downhill. jobs are being sent overseas. we are destroying other countries, etc. gun control doesnt solve any of this.

the best thing a gov can do to control its people is to take away its weapons.

AR15 and AK47 can and are used for hunting. In fact, they are what new rifles look like. Just as mobile technology has changed so has gun technology. AR is a technology just like any other. More deaths are caused by the iPhone (texting while driving) then mass shootings. http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/cell-phones-more-dangerous-than-guns/
 
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Mom and Pop
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Well, you're right, it doesn't.
But it does lead to the image that the AR15 is not meant for "civilians"
Some media people have said that it was a police issued weapon since it's an "M&P" model.
To me there's only military and civilian. Police are civilians in my book.
 
What do you mean we've been invaded by a foreign power? Which country? Don't you know that behind every blade of grass is a young, expertly trained rifleman?
 
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