When to shoot?

S

Splitear_Leland

New member
I'm sure this question has been asked before, but I am curious what the overall feeling is on this forum. When do you think it is okay to use deadly force. I am at a crossroads where I am trying to decide what I would do in self defense situation. If someone pulled a gun on you and told you to give them your wallet, would you pull. If you caught a burglar in you house and he was trying to escape, would you shoot. Those are the scenarios I have been thinking about recently, and right now my answer would be no, I would not shoot. I don't think that anything that I own is worth another man's life. However, if my or family's life were at stake, I would say yes, I would fire, but I think that I would regret it for the rest of my life. What are your thoughts?
 
When someone has the means to kill me, and shows the intent to do so, all is fair.

If someone already has a gun on me and demands my wallet, I'm not going to try to quick-draw on him. Besides, there's nothing valuable in my wallet anyway; joke's on him.

Also, here in Florida, if someone breaks into your home (or occupied vehicle), they are at your mercy. That being said, I would give a robber an opportunity to leave, if I can safely determine he is unarmed. If he doesn't immediately seize that opportunity, I'm not waiting to see what else he'll try. But I'll avoid killing someone over a broken door or window if that's all the harm that has been done.

Make sure you brush up on your state laws.
 
If I feel that my life, my families life's, or people around me lives are in danger.
If they turn to run, where are they going? Maybe to get backup, friends or gun, so I will shoot in back if they have started the sequences for me to feel justified in pulling my weapon.


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If some one has a gun pointed at me, he can have my wallet. He can pay the $1.50 in over due books at the library and he can have my old Blockbuster card, I never keep money in it anyway. My important stuff is in a different pocket, not in the wallet,.
 
Shooting someone in the back can easily take you across that fine line between self-defense and second-degree murder. In most states you're allowed to use the amount of force necessary to eliminate a threat. Once your attacker begins to flee, he is no longer a direct threat to you, and using deadly force at that point may be hard to justify.
 
I feel that the use of deadly is the most important decision a person will ever make in their entire life, and the outcome of that decision is final!
There are no "do overs" and you can not recall a bullet!
 
In any US jurisdiction, the standard for the use of deadly force, that is force which a reasonable person understands can cause death and/or serious physical injury, is this:

The aggressor must have, or the victim must reasonably perceive the attacker to have, the MEANS/ABILITY to cause death and/or serious physical injury.

The aggressor must have the OPPORTUNITY to utilize the previously mentioned MEANS/ABILITY to cause death and/or serious physical injury, and

The aggressor must demonstrate the INTENT to utilize the previously mentioned MEANS/ABILITY to cause death and/or physical injury.

These three things are the standard. Once past that, the time to shoot really depends on the individual situation. One should also understand that we shoot to stop a threat, that is the purpose. Not to kill, although the death of the aggressor can be a result, and we need to be able to accept that possibility, we shoot to stop the threat.
 
When do you think it is okay to use deadly force.
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Take a class and get your answers there. The gun is and should be the last resort, when all other tactics fail and you will be harmed if you do not, then I would draw. First is get away from the threat, retreat to a safe place. Use the cell phone.

the permit doesnt make me a cop.

Have a friend hold a squirt gun on you make sure you have one too concealed of course, then try to out draw him as he holds you up. You will lose every time, we do this just to show how fast the gun can be used on you.
 
here's a simpler response, deadly force is justified when there is an UNavoidable threat that will cause death or grave bodily harm to you or other innocent people. I say unavoidable because if you can avoid it but use deadly force then it probably won't be justified. In a self-defense situation, it is only when the aggressor uses or attempts to use deadly force that you have the right to respond with deadly force. I think thats correct.
 
Speaking on a individual assessment.

The simplest answer is...When your in immediate fear of your life... Make sure your testimony can prove you were in fear of your life.

Always refer to your states Use Of Deadly Force Laws.
 
When the zombies death breath is on your face.... The zombies have you backed into a corner or other suitable place with no possible retreat, they have the intent and means to feast on you immediately and are acting to do so.

At that point I pull the holy water squirt gun and ............ spray!
 
I agree with markj. I am a little surprised that someone who had taken a CC course from a competent instructor would have such a question.
However, it is better to ask than to wonder-too long.:)

Regards,
Jerry
 
I got to say over a wallett I would not draw.....its just a wallett. However if I feel it will be my wallett and my life he's going to shoot me any way than im going for my gun if I get shot than it will not be without the effort to protect myself. In my home however its another matter if some one has broken into my home im not waiting to see if there armed im going to fire unless their running out the door. I have a wife and a three year old grandson to protect I will not gamble with their safty. All that being said I hope I never find the need to use deadly force and wish the same for all of you out there
 
Posted by Splitear_Leland: If someone pulled a gun on you and told you to give them your wallet, would you pull.
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NO!

Not because I would not be justified, but because I think it would be extremely foolish.

Bill Jordan might have been able to do it, but I cannot, and Mas Ayoob would not recommend it.

If you caught a burglar in you house and he was trying to escape, would you shoot.
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NO!

Even in "castle doctrine" states such as Florida and Texas, the legal presumption that the fact of an unlawful entry into an occupied domicile provides the lawful occupant with reason to believe that he is in imminent danger is rebuttable; forensic evidence indicating that the intruder had been trying to escape would be damning.

Someone who would answer "yes" might be providing very damaging discoverable evidence relevant to state of mind, should he or she ever become involved in an ambiguous shooting.
 
GUNSITE said:
The simplest answer is...When your in immediate fear of your life... Make sure your testimony can prove you were in fear of your life.
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There's a key word missing here: you must be reasonably in fear of your life: in other words, any reasonable person, in the same situation, would be in fear of his/her life.

Just because you're a scaredy-cat doesn't mean you're justified in pulling the trigger...
 
You can google and read about "ability, opportunity and jeopardy". Its a old training tool but it does help understand some basic elements of self defense.
 
I agree with markj. I am a little surprised that someone who had taken a CC course from a competent instructor would have such a question.
However, it is better to ask than to wonder-too long.
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I'm an NRA certified handgun instructor and I was instructed to NOT go into the legalities of when to shoot and justifications. I was instructed to instead suggest students review use of deadly force rules personally.

Perhaps this instructor is following NRA teaching as instructed LOL.
 
State Laws Vary....

You can google and read about "ability, opportunity and jeopardy". Its a old training tool but it does help understand some basic elements of self defense.
__________________
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In Nebraska, we don't have Castle doctrine (yet!), so we have to satisfy A,O, J andP .... there must be;

Ability (of the aggressor to cause death of great bodily harm)

Opportunity (of same)

Jeapordy (you or a dependant are in jeapordy of above)

Preclusion (You are precluded from doing anything else- inability to retreat, etc.

I'm an NRA certified handgun instructor and I was instructed to NOT go into the legalities of when to shoot and justifications. I was instructed to instead suggest students review use of deadly force rules personally.
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Our Concealed Handgun Permit instructors must cover this in the curriculum....... probably why the NRA Basic Pistol Course does not qualify as sufficient training.....

Interestingly enough, though, there are a couple of exceptions to AOJP here: You are not required to retreat from your home or place of business .......... and deadly force is justified in preventing rape (of yourself or a third party).
 
Taking a class is an excellent idea. And here are some additional, excellent resources:

[1] This thread started by Marty Hayes, member here and president of the Armed Citizen's Legal Defense Network.

[2] This website provides an excellent overview of use of force law.

[3] And this website maintained by Kathy Jackson, an instructor at the Firearms Academy of Seattle and a moderator here (going by the screen name pax).
 
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