When is the firearms industry supposed to get back to normal again?

ME AGAIN:

Maybe no business between us, then. Normally when one buys a gun in a brick-and-mortar store, he can examine it with a flashlight and magnifier and then decide whether to buy it at that point. It might have swirl marks but still be acceptable to the buyer. The prospective buyer may use the marks as a bargaining chip too. The big problem with traditional brick-and-mortar stores these days is limited selection. My own hometown dealer can't even special order me what I want because his distributors are supposedly out of stock.

I know if I order a new camera or TV set online from amazon or Walmart, I can easily return it if its broken upon inspection at receipt of shipment. I understand buyers who buy guns online entail certain economic risks. I understand firearms dealers often don't have liberal return polices and consumers may get screwed. Thanks for your reply. You, and perhaps many other dealers online, are too scared to back up the customer satisfaction of your merchandise shipped to FLLs of customers.
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The guy was honest with you. The two of you obviously don't see eye-to-eye, time for you to find another online seller.

Be happy that the guy was willing to be straight with you even at the cost of losing a customer and move on.
 
He was also selling the Smith 686 at $50 higher

than another dealer at Gunbroker so I bought from his cheaper competitor instead. I made sure both guns I purchased had the Davidson Lifetime seal on them. I'm now confident I wouldn't likely be stuck with a new gun received scratched up. Both guns were purchased with my VISA for my protection though I got hit 3% for credit card use. My credit card will back me in case one or both of those online dealers tries to get cute.

https://www.davidsonsinc.com/PublicPages/Guaranteed.aspx


I bought my new Smith 642 Airweight online last year and had no issues upon inspection.

Under no circumstances would I ever buy a USED firearm over the Internet.
 
He was also selling the Smith 686 at $50 higher than another dealer at Gunbroker...
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All the more reason to move on and be happy about doing so.

My guess is that you are both much happier for how it turned out. I figure when he saw "...examine it with a flashlight and magnifier..." he took a deep breath at his narrow escape! :D
 
AlongCameJones said:
NORMAL means you go on line and Google "new Mossberg 500 for sale" and get a front page full of gun dealers. In that case, NORMAL means "out of stock" is the exception and not the rule for America's number one shotgun.

Anyway, I just ordered my new Mossberg 500 12 ga. field/security combo and my new Smith 686 Plus 3" barrel both at Gunbroker.com to be FFL-transfered at my local gun shop over the next week or so.

The new Mossy two-barrel combo I paid $91 over manufacturer list price. The new Smith 686 PLUS 3" I actually paid $50 under mfr. list.

I have an older Remington 870 police pump and it sucks. It's a pain to load and unload due to the carrier that gets in the way. I just got rid of a Benelli Super Nova last year for the same reason. I had a new Mossy 500 police pump I bought back in the '90's that sadly got stolen. I love their ease of stuffing shells into the tube and they don't seem to kick as much as my 870. The Maverick 88 is cheaper and made in Mexico. I hear quality is not the same as the American-made 500/590 series. It's also easy to pry unfired shells out of the tube with a Mossy without firing or cycling the action. The shell carrier stays up in a Mossy, out of the way of the generous wide loading port. I will get rid of that 870 when I get my Mossy.

Both of these gun models have been largely out of stock since last summer even at Gunbroker.com. If one of these guns was listed on rare occasions, it would be priced a couple hundred dollars higher than gun maker retail list price. There are quite a number of those listed in stock again at Gunbroker. Either gun factories are in full production again or gun sales are starting to slow down.

The COVID spell seems like that it's on its way to lifting. Walmarts in my area are now designated mask-free again for shoppers. Some people still wear them but not all. I only put my mask over my face when I'm close to people in the store. I keep it handy around my neck. Some places like hospitals and clinics still require...
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Normal is relative and ever changing. That was normal. It's not anymore. The point is you can only deal with things as they are right now. You cannot change the past, only shape the future by making wise choices in the present.
 
Livid Horse Armory with the more expensive

Model 686 just emailed me this morning to say he sold that gun. I replied that was just as well because I got a better deal from his Gunbroker competitor anyway on the same model. He said enjoy my new gun.

I bought a new Colt King Cobra 3" last year but it stunk. Lousy double-action pull trigger and bright chrome-like stainless finish that gets hazy real easy. The Colt trigger can get jammed if let off too fast and not fully. Colt's "customer service" these days is also impossible to get a hold of over the telephone. Buyer's remorse. Got rid of the damm thing shortly after and lost $175.

Stay away from new COLT firearms like the plague! Don't get hooked by any rampant pony.

I now know better. For modern d/a revolvers, it's Smith & Wesson, period. I don't like the looks of Rugers. Taurus and Charter Arms are cheap and look cheap too.

My two Smith wheel guns have a practical satin white-metal finish that won't haze or show minor scratches easily.

The all-steel 686 Plus has a satin stainless finish while the Airweight 642 has a matte silver finish: stainless barrel and cylinder, alloy frame

Practical gun finishes that seem more wear resistant, minor-scratch-concealing and rust-resistant than others.

Smith wheel guns have nice crisp triggers with super balk-resistant let-off. You can fire them fast and furious and intuitively in d/a mode without jamming the action up unlike Colt triggers that can balk if pushed too hard or not operated deliberately and carefully. You have to conscientiously let a Colt trigger off completely to ensure the action is reset for the next shot.
 
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You have to conscientiously let a Colt trigger off completely to ensure the action is reset for the next shot.
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Ok, and this is a problem for you, how???

Colt DA revolvers were law enforcement standard for well over a century, and PPC guns and other competition revolvers have been made on Colt DA revolvers, I don't think there is any kind of "design defect" in the Colt DA system. It is what it is, and seems to work at least tolerably well for the rest of the world.

It is better than S&W? I don't think so. Is it as good? Opinions vary. Both types WILL screw up if not operated properly. According to people I've spoken with, who have actual rapid fire DA experience with both, "short stroking" the trigger return will cause malfunctions, in both S&W and Colt DA revolvers. S&Ws may "skip" a chamber or sometimes even "roll back" one. Colt's have a reputation for the trigger jamming back (tying up the gun) in the same circumstances.

The solution is simple, operate the gun in the manner the designers intended.
 
Smith revolvers have a stronger

trigger return spring than Colt's. That tends to push the fire's finger all the way forward practically and automatically to reset. A Smith's trigger seems much more intuitive than Colt's even for a greenhorn of handguns.
 
The more positive trigger return is supposedly part of why Jerry Miculek chose to focus on the S&W revolvers. Of course, there's no free lunch--the stronger trigger return spring means heavier trigger pulls, if only slightly.

That's typical of design choices--you get something, you give something up. Which is why arguments about which is "best" really should be arguments about which is "best for". If you optimize for one thing in a design, you usually have to give up some level of performance in other areas.
 
Any one actually check out the actual rise in crime rates in America? Some places as high s 54%. Why? No one wants to admit it, but the truth is there. Police departments across the Country are losing Police. And it is going to get worse not better. Not until we find a leader that say's NO MORE! Good Americans are buying guns because they can see what is happening. They realize that they may be the only ones to protect their family, homes, business's. Record breaking gun sales are not stopping. And we are in a mess.
At present I have a large stock of 9mm as I saw this crap coming years ago. Now I see a dip in Buckshot. And I have been stocking up as much as I can afford, because I know it will spike up in the future. When will it end? The bottom line is the fact that we are in a mess NOW and have to deal with it. Make a plan, buy what you can afford. Be ready.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/w...-to-admit-that-riots-fueled-record-gun-sales/
 
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American citizens face double danger.

Gun sales in this country were a record high last year. People are now smart enough to realize their smartphone won't save them in a threat emergency situation. Many liberals bought guns for the first time too.

The cops show up late most of the time and often time there is never enough time to wait for cops to show up or even dial the telephone! Law enforcement can take an hour or more to show up to somebody's home in the boonies.

I don't understand it, the Democrats are cutting funding for law enforcement while trying to push through even more gun control on top of it. What the devil!
 
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Shadow9mm said:
Define "normal". for now, this is normal. normal will change again. the only question is, how long and will it be a better or worse normal.
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That was my first reaction too.

Part of my formative "normal" was the '94 AWB and no concealed carry permits. A good AR, an Armalite or Bushmaster, was $800 to $1100. Of course, I could stop into a Walmart or Kmart and buy 500 round bricks of rimfire for less than $10, and I could get better ammunition for less from distributor catalogues.

Sometime in the early 2000s, rimfire got harder to find. I walked out of a Dick's that wanted $20 for 500 Remington Golden Bullets. By 2010, I was seeing lower prices on ARs and components. Then in 2013 and most of 2014, I couldn't find an AR BCG for less than $175, but by 2016 BCGs were down to $50. Things hummed along until there was a legally enforced economic depression in March of 2020.

So what part of that quarter century is normal?

If AlongCameJones question really is when will we see another buyer's market for common items, I'd guess that it will be not too long after the demand is less strongly driven by current events and manufacturing gets back to prior capacity and there is some capacity expansion. My wild guess is that this will not happen for at least another two years, and it depends on people having a sense of confidence and hope in the future.
 
If AlongCameJones question really is when will we see another buyer's market for common items, I'd guess that it will be not too long after the demand is less strongly driven by current events and manufacturing gets back to prior capacity and there is some capacity expansion. My wild guess is that this will not happen for at least another two years, and it depends on people having a sense of confidence and hope in the future.
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That’s the thing. There’s a lot more to this than just the political party in power, or civil unrest, or coronavirus lockdowns. Obviously it’s a combination of the 3, with some very complex ripple effects in the supply side of the economy that won’t shake out for a long time. The trade deficit with China has kicked into hyper drive. Shipping got thrown way out of sync and still hasn’t sorted out. It’s not uncommon for a dozen or more container ships to have to park outside of west coast ports for days or even weeks because the ports are so crowded. Some ships are doing “turn and burns” going back to China empty because it’s perceived as more profitable than waiting for cargo headed outbound. For crying out loud cap and ball revolvers all but disappeared last year. No I wouldn’t hold my breath on $.20 per round .223 for a very long time, if ever. Even reloaders who stocked up well will feel pain. Most folks simply don’t have a multi year supply of components for every caliber they shoot.

Look at other commodities. Like lumber and building materials. Gardening supplies. Pickup trucks. My daughters 2003 Dodge Ram has appreciated by over 50% since last March. And I am afraid that inflation will make things much worse before they start to get better... a product of government throwing money at people, even the ones that don’t need it. I actually worry less and less about the availability of wants in my shooting hobby and more and more about many other things by the day.
 
When is the firearms industry supposed to get back to normal again?
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Like 1980 normal (when Carter scared the gun owners)? 1994 normal (when Clinton scared the AR guys so bad you couldn't find a semi-auto ANYTHING on the shelves)? 2008 normal (when BO scared everybody so bad you couldn't find powder or primers for 3 months)? 2012 normal (when BO did it again)? 2016 normal (when Hillary screamed she would get all the guns so you couldn't find ammo or primers for 6 months)? Seems to me, having been involved in the firearms market for 40+ years, that "normal" is one panic after another. So yeah, it's back to normal. The new normal. Until the next panic.
 
Scorch: You mentioned that "2008 normal ..BO scared everybody so bad..".

I was chatting with a pretty astute guy in Academy today. Told him what some Astute friends told me weeks Before the 2008 election.

They knew that BO had a planned, highly complex legislative agenda having Nothing to do with guns. What a success! "I want me one of dem ARs before he can Take 'Em!"
Much of the scare back then was done by innuendos and totally vague "feelings" on the Commercial Side, to create enough anxiety among the gullible people :eek: to help sell a huge number of guns and ammo. Ka-Ching, sort of like right now----------

BO's focus, as many observers noticed Before the 2008 election, was on the "Affordable" Healthcare Act, as everybody finally figured out later, when it required 'buying out' a few Senators for it to pass.

Even now, a politician suggests anything about tighter gun legislation and the nervous cattle begin running.
We've seen almost nothing under Biden, not even a Senate discussion on UBC...never mind a discussion on banning pistol grips, muzzle brakes etc.

As a guy on TheHighRoad pointed out, Biden's vague talk raised a fair bit of campaign money for the Party - as it also did for the GOP. People still confuse talk with action....:confused: Just like this week with Putin in Geneva. Not even a threat.
Gun legislation is a far more dangerous risk for the Dems than most of the public seems to realize. Al Gore's lesson persists. "Eh, Dude, who's Gore?"
 
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NORMAL means you go on line and Google "new Mossberg 500 for sale" and get a front page full of gun dealers. In that case, NORMAL means "out of stock" is the exception and not the rule for America's number one shotgun.
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Correct.
 
Ignition Override
Even now, a politician suggests anything about tighter gun legislation and the nervous cattle begin running.
We've seen almost nothing under Biden, not even a Senate discussion on UBC...never mind a discussion on banning pistol grips, muzzle brakes etc.
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No need to pass an new legislation that'll cost anyone votes for either party.

With the administrative state, all you have to do is re-interpret the rules. We've seen this already for 7n6 ammo, green tip (almost), bump stocks and right now the ATF is fiddling with arm braces and "ghost guns". Biden's nominee to head the ATF, David Chipman, is a rabid anti-gunner. Among his goals is to re-categorize semi-auto firearms as machineguns if they can accept hi-cap mags. He hasn't said what he considers "hi-cap".

As to when the industry gets back to "normal", I'm guessing production capacity should be back to normal by this fall. Remington was MIA during all the Wu-flu nonsense, but are back in business now, which was a big missing piece of the ammo production pie, Wu-flu or not. Demand may still exceed production capacity for a couple years, so I would assume at least 2 years before prices come down, and "never" for when we'll see Jan. 2020 prices. Normal and now abnormal inflation has moved the bottom price points. No panic needed to see these trends.
 
Biden's nominee to head the ATF, David Chipman, is a rabid anti-gunner. Among his goals is to re-categorize semi-auto firearms as machineguns if they can accept hi-cap mags.
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How sad for him he has chosen goals that are not legally achievable. :rolleyes:

Unlike a certain stock or brace, the definition of what a machinegun is, is NOT written in ATF regs that the agency can change or "reinterpret".

It is written in Federal LAW and only Congress can change that, not the director appointee of any Federal agency, no matter how much they rilly, rilly want to!
 
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How sad for him he has chosen goals that are not legally achievable.

Unlike a certain stock or brace, the definition of what a machinegun is, is NOT written in ATF regs that the agency can change or "reinterpret".

It is written in Federal LAW and only Congress can change that, not the director appointee of any Federal agency, no matter how much they rilly, rilly want to!
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https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/bump-stocks
"On December 18, 2018, Acting Attorney General Matthew Whitaker announced that the Department of Justice has amended the regulations of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF), clarifying that bump stocks fall within the definition of “machinegun” under federal law, as such devices allow a shooter of a semiautomatic firearm to initiate a continuous firing cycle with a single pull of the trigger."

Nope, won't ever happen again :).
 
As to the original thread title, gun shops here are loaded with guns; it's the lack of ammo (although slowly improving) that is keeping the gun clubs fairly empty. Academy, BASS, have racks and cases full of guns.
 
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