When I buy a new gun, is it registered?

MrDontPlay

New member
I'm a little confused about this one. If I go buy and new AK-47 from a dealer and fill out the paper work for the background check, does the government now know that I own an AK-47? I know the FFL keeps records, but do the feds keep a record of what models I have with serial numbers? If it came down to confiscation would they be showing up to my house with an inventory of my safe without going through the FFL to get the info?

Ofcourse I'm only talking about The way they are supposed to be doing it, not the way they're probably doing it behind our backs.

Also, if all the dealers banded together and destroyed the info, could that possibly be a way of stopping some confiscation from happening?
 
It isn't technically a registration, or record of ownership, only a record of sale. It's a semantic difference largely with a new weapon, but since it doesn't follow the weapon or even track it beyond purchase, it wouldn't technically be considered a registry.

Federal Register said:
In cases of allowed transfers, all information in the Audit Log related to the person or the transfer, other than the NTN assigned to the transfer and the date the number was assigned, will be destroyed after not more than six months after the transfer is allowed.

Source
 
registered

i know of one firearm that was traced back to the owner after 10-12 years. sounds like registration to me
 
TDL said:
Some states already maintain registries and more states are likely to.

^^This^^

Now, FFL dealers are REQUIRED to keep the paper copies of the 4473's for 20 years. That can be used to locate a gun purchaser, if needed. BATFE can request those records at any time.
 
tracability

In N.C. it is a piece of paper sitting in a file cabinet owned by the GS that sold you the gun.


It isn't registered in the sense that someone can pull up your name and see what all you have in your gun safe.

But, should a crime be commited, they can take the serial # and trace it back to the last known owner.

This is where it gets difficult when private sales break that chain when trying to solve a crime.
 
In CT, all handgun purchases are registered. Same with NY. In NY, any handgun you own must be listed on your permit to be legal to own. Right now, long guns are exempt but I see that changing soon.

In CT, your FFL has to fill out a form that includes the serial#, make, model, caliber and barrel length of the handgun being transferred. You call an 800# to get an approval# to include on the paperwork. This also applies to FTF sales as well. A copy of this form is mailed to the state and local PD of the buyer and a copy is kept with the buyer and seller. This is definitely registration. Right now long guns are exempt but I also see that changing.

If you move to CT from another state and own handguns then they are not registered but any purchased while a resident there are.
 
Also, if all the dealers banded together and destroyed the info, could that possibly be a way of stopping some confiscation from happening?
It would certainly be a way for them to lose their licenses. Dealers are audited periodically by the ATF, and any found to have no 4473s in their files would lose their licenses in a hurry, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were prosecuted.

So, no, I don't think they'd be too keen to do that.
 
It would certainly be a way for them to lose their licenses. Dealers are audited periodically by the ATF, and any found to have no 4473s in their files would lose their licenses in a hurry, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were prosecuted.

So, no, I don't think they'd be too keen to do that.

What I meant was in an all out full confiscation scenerio, in which they would be losing their jobs anyway.
 
What I meant was in an all out full confiscation scenerio, in which they would be losing their jobs anyway.

You'll find that in the real world very few people are willing to commit a felony and go to jail for multiple years.

You could probably destroy them yourself with less jail time than the FFL would get just by burning down all your local gun shops - are you willing to do that?
 
I think the Feds are not destroying the data like they are supposed to. I was reading a news article where a NE police chief said he'd just check the Fed's database. People figured this out because the gun hadn't been made in awhile and that gun hadn't been transferred. I've been trying to find the article for awhile now.

You could probably destroy them yourself with less jail time than the FFL would get just by burning down all your local gun shops - are you willing to do that?

Hasn't the BATFE has been digitizing those?
 
I found out over 30 years ago that a gun reported stolen has always been included in a national database.

Way back in the late 1970's just out of high school a buddy and I were renting a farmhouse. While we were gone a fellow broke in and trashed the place. The neighbors called the sheriff and they came and arrested the guy (he had passed out on the porch). The deputy knew we both had a few guns and since the vandal had beaten the front door in, the deputy gathered up our guns for safekeeping.

Next day we went to the sheriffs office to sign the complaint and collect our guns. The sheriff was a old family friend and was impressed with my 700BDL and 1100 and handed them back to me. My buddy was not so lucky, his military training rifle in .22 caliber was reported stolen from Ft. Hood back in the 50's, it was confiscated.

I expect back then they ran the serial numbers by phone to someplace with an IBM mainframe as computers here were pretty rare.
 
When you fill out the 4473 form and your FFL calls in a NICS background check, no information about the firearm itself is relayed other than if it's a handgun, long gun, or other firearm. The feds have no way of knowing what specific firearm you purchased or what the serial number is without actually contacting the FFL; the only record of the firearm purchased is on the 4473 form and that stays at the FFL.

That said, if your FFL uses the digital version of the 4473 and accesses the FBI NICS via the Internet, all of the information on the form is relayed to the FBI, including make and serial number. They're not supposed to keep this information, but I'd be surprised if they didn't.

Any other records or registration would only happen on a state level. For example, in Washington State there is an additional form required for handgun purchases that goes to local law enforcement and is used to create a registry of handguns.
 
i know of one firearm that was traced back to the owner after 10-12 years. sounds like registration to me

That's not the same thing. Believe me, I lived in Hawaii for 3.5 years so I know what registration looks like.

Let's use your example. "John" goes to his local gunstore and buys a new Glock 10-12 years ago. He fills out the 4473, etc. Takes the gun home and all is well in the world.

But then there is a criminal investigation. Either that gun was stolen and then recovered from a criminal or used in a crime. Or the gun was found at a crime scene involving the original owner. Whatever the situation, there was a crime, the gun was found there, the question is, "Who owns this gun?" Glock is queried about the serial number. They look at their records and say which distributor they sold it to. That distributor is contacted and they say what retail shop they sold it to. Somewhere down the chain, they end up at your local gun store. He was the last person who owned it before you. The investigators request he check his records. He pulls the 4473's and there is your name and address. He hands that off to the LEO's.

Now you might have sold that gun to your neighbor. Or at a gun show. Or in a Classified ad in the newspaper. Or lost it in a boating accident. All we know for sure is that the gun can have its serial number tracked down to the last person who bought it new.

Registration, on the other hand, is what Hawaii has. When the US Army sent me there, I took about 15 of my privately owned guns with me. When they were delivered to my new house, the clock started running. I think it was 10 days then but that was 1986. I had to physically take every single gun I owned down to the Honolulu Police Department HQ. I had to carry every gun right into the front lobby and hand them over to be inspected and their barrels measured. Serial numbers copied down. All my legal information entered. Any new guns I acquired after that had to have the same process. My 1SGT would get really annoyed with me when I would tell him I bought a new gun and now I have to drive all the way downtown to register it. And it has to be done during business hours. He told me to quit buying guns.... I didn't need them anyway!

So in the case of Hawaii, any cop could have put my name into the system and seen a full and complete list of every gun I legally owned. That's what registration looks like. It was an annoying and pointless exercise in futility. Nobody even tried to pretend that it "prevented crime" in any way at all to have the honest citizens lining up with their guns and registering them. But that didn't stop the politicians!

Gregg
 
Excellent summary of the difference Tulsamal.

One of the things that is being discussed by the politicians is the universal background check (UBC) and the federal government maintaining permanent records of those sales. Like Hawaii, it will not likely solve crime and it is not likely to significantly reduce access to firearms by people who can not buy them at a FFL dealer. It will serve as a further encumberance to buying a firearm. That is the whole point from a government perspective and people like Sen. Schumer and Feinstein.

The gun control advocates want to know where each and every firearm is in the US. That is a fact. They claim that this is justified if "one life is saved".
 
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California has a handgun registry already. Starting in 2014, all new long gun purchases (rather it be a rifle, carbine, or shotgun) must be registered with the state.

Needless to say I will not be buying any new firearms after 2013 is over. The one exception to this would be if a Shall Issue CHL law was passed. I wouldn't mind the handgun registry since I would have to have my firearm registered for a CHL anyway.
 
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