I guess, for me, it would really depend on the gun, I have been fortunate enough to have only had 2 guns so far that have fallen into this category, only one of which was a handgun, both of which were sold off to get rid of them. For me to stop trusting a handgun, or any gun for that matter I have to have consistent issues or a complete catastrophic failure of some sort (thankfully I have never experienced the latter) my first…. I will call it an uncharacteristic lemon of a Ruger10/22, a target model. The gun was VERY accurate but it did not cycle reliable and would not extract casings properly. I did a LOT of work polishing and making sure everything was working properly and it kept malfunctioning consistently with every type of ammo from federal bulk to CCI mini mags no less than 1 malfunction, either a miss-feed or a spend casing extracted but still in the action. After working on it no less than 4 times over the course of 6 months I sold it. My 2nd bad gun was a Kel-Tec PF9. The gun seemed fine at first, I fed it WWB (which it did not like) during the 200rnd break in period during which I experienced numerous malfunctions. I then switched to the bulk Remington HP ammo which was cheap and what I was going to carry for the tie being… which it fed 50rnds of flawlessly, so I figured the malfunctions were a combination of ammo it didn’t like and the break in period. After having he gun a little better than 6 months and having shot it several more times I had had some sort of malfunction, failure to extract, failure to feed, stovepipes 1-3 times in 50-100rnds each time I had shot. I contacted Kel-Tek who sent me a new extractor and spring kit which I replaced. I shot it 2 more times and was still having issues and did not feel comfortable carrying the gun. I contacted Kel-Tec who stated that I could send it to them for repair but at that point I had lost all confidence in the gun and sold it. That is what causes me to lose trust with a gun.
When do you stop trusting one of your handguns?
- Thread starter 12GaugeShuggoth
- Start date
When they start having problems that aren't like, "Oh, the extractor pin broke!", or something like that. My worst out of the box gun, period, was my brand new Colt Commander. It was my first new auto, and there was zero quality control. Neither the slide or the frame were finished well at all. Once in a great while, it would actually shoot a full magazine, but usually, it would shoot two, stovepipe, shoot two more, and stovepipe again. It had to be held in a death grip, and I had a hell of a grip back then, to even have a chance at more than two rounds. An average sized friend couldn't hold it hard enough to make it work at all. Back to Colt it went, where it got scratched up and than a local gunsmith had a look at it, and his conclusion was "pitiful". After all kinds of stuff being done to it, I gave up. My next auto was a great one, a used Beretta 92. I trusted that one totally until the day I had to sell it.
Trust
Though I'm no gunsmith, I believe Firearms are pretty simple machines. Compared to engines, lathes, sewing machines, lawn mowers, etc.etc.etc. Any failure to function with factory ammo that's in spec. should be EXTREMELY rare. Like once out of multiple thousands of rounds IF THAT. Personally, if it jams I do not keep it around. Also I do not believe in "break in" periods either. If the pistol is made right it wants to run from the get go and will. Some large percentage of jams are not the pistols fault. They are magazine related, or operator error. Some of the contest, where pistols are shot until they fail, many of the malfunctions indicate it's not the pistol. It's improper mag insertion etc. ie operator error in the end. Currently I have several pistols and none have jammed. Some are fired much more than others though. The Glock's and H&K's have many thousands of rounds more than my 1911's. Just my experience and yours may be different.
Though I'm no gunsmith, I believe Firearms are pretty simple machines. Compared to engines, lathes, sewing machines, lawn mowers, etc.etc.etc. Any failure to function with factory ammo that's in spec. should be EXTREMELY rare. Like once out of multiple thousands of rounds IF THAT. Personally, if it jams I do not keep it around. Also I do not believe in "break in" periods either. If the pistol is made right it wants to run from the get go and will. Some large percentage of jams are not the pistols fault. They are magazine related, or operator error. Some of the contest, where pistols are shot until they fail, many of the malfunctions indicate it's not the pistol. It's improper mag insertion etc. ie operator error in the end. Currently I have several pistols and none have jammed. Some are fired much more than others though. The Glock's and H&K's have many thousands of rounds more than my 1911's. Just my experience and yours may be different.
Am I oversimplifying this or is the answer as obvious as what immediately came to mind? Inexplicable malfunctions that cannot be immediately addressed absent breaking down the gun=loss of trust in that I no longer will depend on that gun to protect life. This does not, however, mean that I no longer will use the gun as it's a temporary condition of which I just need to first repair said problem prior to restoration of trust. That is why one should ALWAYS have a BUG on hand in the event an extractor, spring, hammer etc. needs to be replaced (or your gun gets 'temporarily' confiscated after a SD incident).
Maybe I am not a good candidate to answer the question meaning that I have never had that proverbial 'lemon' like gun whereby I totally lost trust (so perhaps that is what the OP was getting at and I have just been lucky by not being able to personally relate...?).
-Cheers
Maybe I am not a good candidate to answer the question meaning that I have never had that proverbial 'lemon' like gun whereby I totally lost trust (so perhaps that is what the OP was getting at and I have just been lucky by not being able to personally relate...?).
-Cheers
I guess I have been very fortunate to not have ever had a total lemon in my hands. Given break in periods and some TLC, I've worked the kinks out of any guns that had the problems. I've had some issues, but I think they were poor mag insertion or I just wasn't holding the gun tight enough. Never had an issue with a long gun. Those go bang for me every time.
TheNocturnus
New member
When do I stop trusting one of my guns?
When my wife spends more time with it than me.
When my wife spends more time with it than me.
Depends.
They're just machines.
"Trusting" them is not much different than "trusting" any other machine.
Whenever I encounter a stoppage or malfunction I try to determine the cause. If it seems it's related to the gun itself, then I try to determine whatever correction or repair might be required. If the "problem" is resolved, then we're back in business just like before.
The difficult part of this sort of question is that stoppages and malfunctions can be caused by more issues than just a "gun problem", and it's the diagnosis process that can become fuzzy for some folks.
Once a firearm leaves the manufacturer they have no control over some important influences and conditions that can potentially lend themselves to operating and functioning "problems". These influences are typically considered to include:
Shooter (shooting technique, manipulation & operation)
Maintenance (practices, frequency and nature)
Ammunition (quality - presuming the correct caliber, of course)
Environmental conditions (in which the gun is used)
It's not uncommon for some folks to mistake a shooter or ammo problem to be a "gun problem". (More "problems" that have been brought to me as an armorer for different firearms have actually been shooter-induced, in one way or another.)
Maintenance can become a problem, too, as some folks may think or feel their methods and practices are "best", but they may not be compatible with what the manufacturer thinks is appropriate and proper (to be charitable).
Now, as an armorer I've had my fair share of instances that required correction or repair to both agency & personally-owned firearms. Many times it's been caused by user/owner neglect, abuse or outright improper maintenance. Every once in a while a worn, broken or defective part might occur. Being able to recognize the difference is important to being able to resolve the "problem".
More often than not the "problem" already diagnosed by a user/owner has reflected their expectations, or some inherent personal bias, and more often than not the actual problem was something else. (Symptoms may not necessarily be the same thing as the actual underlying problem, either.)
Once I get a gun back up operating and functioning normally, my "trust" in it is "restored", much as with any other machinery.
If the problem is one which exceeds my training & experience as an armorer, I'll either seek out the help of a more experienced armorer, or else I'll have it resolved by the manufacturer. Naturally, if it's not a firearm for which I've been trained to support as an armorer, I'll also seek help. I learned as a young man that trying to "fix it" myself can often add to the original problem.
Ever see the price list where it costs more if you tried to fix it first? 
I can think of a very few instances where I owned one or two examples of a gun company's products for which I was less than satisfied regarding function. I learned my lesson in what it means to buy quality ... and in one of those instances I realized that if the company couldn't make it work after 2-3 trips back for repair, I simply didn't want to own it.
They're just machines.
"Trusting" them is not much different than "trusting" any other machine.
Whenever I encounter a stoppage or malfunction I try to determine the cause. If it seems it's related to the gun itself, then I try to determine whatever correction or repair might be required. If the "problem" is resolved, then we're back in business just like before.
The difficult part of this sort of question is that stoppages and malfunctions can be caused by more issues than just a "gun problem", and it's the diagnosis process that can become fuzzy for some folks.
Once a firearm leaves the manufacturer they have no control over some important influences and conditions that can potentially lend themselves to operating and functioning "problems". These influences are typically considered to include:
Shooter (shooting technique, manipulation & operation)
Maintenance (practices, frequency and nature)
Ammunition (quality - presuming the correct caliber, of course)
Environmental conditions (in which the gun is used)
It's not uncommon for some folks to mistake a shooter or ammo problem to be a "gun problem". (More "problems" that have been brought to me as an armorer for different firearms have actually been shooter-induced, in one way or another.)
Maintenance can become a problem, too, as some folks may think or feel their methods and practices are "best", but they may not be compatible with what the manufacturer thinks is appropriate and proper (to be charitable).
Now, as an armorer I've had my fair share of instances that required correction or repair to both agency & personally-owned firearms. Many times it's been caused by user/owner neglect, abuse or outright improper maintenance. Every once in a while a worn, broken or defective part might occur. Being able to recognize the difference is important to being able to resolve the "problem".
More often than not the "problem" already diagnosed by a user/owner has reflected their expectations, or some inherent personal bias, and more often than not the actual problem was something else. (Symptoms may not necessarily be the same thing as the actual underlying problem, either.)
Once I get a gun back up operating and functioning normally, my "trust" in it is "restored", much as with any other machinery.
If the problem is one which exceeds my training & experience as an armorer, I'll either seek out the help of a more experienced armorer, or else I'll have it resolved by the manufacturer. Naturally, if it's not a firearm for which I've been trained to support as an armorer, I'll also seek help. I learned as a young man that trying to "fix it" myself can often add to the original problem.
Ever see the price list where it costs more if you tried to fix it first? I can think of a very few instances where I owned one or two examples of a gun company's products for which I was less than satisfied regarding function. I learned my lesson in what it means to buy quality ... and in one of those instances I realized that if the company couldn't make it work after 2-3 trips back for repair, I simply didn't want to own it.
jason41987
New member
when i notice something saying "made in china" somewhere on it...
KyJim,
As much as it pains me to say, I agree with you. For example, when I was looking for an absolute entry-level no frills 1911 I decided on the Norinco after extensive research. I concluded then (my opinion hasn't changed) that the Norinco was hands-down the best 1911 in its class (at the time this translated to a sub $425 pistol). I have only shot them at the range when my buddy was with me by borrowing his (roughly a couple of hundred rounds downrange). It's a rock-solid platform that mirrors the 1911 model in every aspect. However, I could not find a new gun so I purchased my second choice 1911A1 matching the aforementioned requirements which is my Regent R100 1911 Turkish made pistol. No complaints as it has actually exceeded my expectations (but honestly I still wish I was able to find that new Norinco 1911).
Needleless to say in this horrid BO economy (not being political but he is the CEO of the Nation) the bottom line is dollars and cents/sense. The Norinco fits the bill and IMO quintessentially at that. I get the political arguments against supporting a dictatorship regime, but the international arms trade has been and will forever be part of our human/nature experience/existence.
It's a shame that all of the (subjectively speaking) quite affordable entry-level 1911's are foreign (mostly Asian in general though Turkey is making a good push in the small-arms arena).Unless I am missing something, there are no American companies making sub-$450 1911's...?
-Cheers
I bought a NIB Kahr PM40. I had every kind of failure in the book with it before I even got close to the 200 round break-in.
The cause was a spring which could be assembled wrong but the error was not apparent until I tried to fire it.
Because it was strictly for SD I wouldn’t carry it nor would I sell it to someone who might depend on it.
I still have it, slightly deformed and in the box except for the barrel which went shooting off into the woods from the anvil and I can’t find it.
Bad ammo is an acceptable excuse. Otherwise once is enough for me if it’s for SD.
.
The cause was a spring which could be assembled wrong but the error was not apparent until I tried to fire it.
Because it was strictly for SD I wouldn’t carry it nor would I sell it to someone who might depend on it.
I still have it, slightly deformed and in the box except for the barrel which went shooting off into the woods from the anvil and I can’t find it.
Bad ammo is an acceptable excuse. Otherwise once is enough for me if it’s for SD.
.
youngunz4life
New member
let me put it this way and with all honesty of course....I don't trust a handgun after I buy it(even if it is new in the box). I had a bad experience one time, so I do believe in breaking a firearm in. As you mentioned...those opinions vary widely...I myself don't think a ton need to go thru but that isn't the nature of my post. I feel that some should go thru before you trust the firearm, and I believe it is a necessity if it is going to be available for home defense by you or your wife, carried as a CCW, etc, etc.
as for when I would stop trusting a firearm. If it doesn't shoot for some odd reason that can't be explained(like a jam in a rifle as an example), I would immediately stop trusting the firearm but that doesn't mean it isn't still worthy. It would be that quick though like that experience I had
as for when I would stop trusting a firearm. If it doesn't shoot for some odd reason that can't be explained(like a jam in a rifle as an example), I would immediately stop trusting the firearm but that doesn't mean it isn't still worthy. It would be that quick though like that experience I had
Sparks1957
New member
1) Before I have fired it enough (a couple hundred rounds at least) to know that it is reliable, and
2) If the gun malfunctions in some way that is clearly not due to operator error or substandard ammo.
2) If the gun malfunctions in some way that is clearly not due to operator error or substandard ammo.