What's your guess for the future of the .308/7.62x51nato?

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What event did I see the .308 make the smallest groups at?

No "event" at all. Just testing for accuracy. 'Twasn't a formal, sanctioned match by any organization whatsoever. And my comparisons was made against all calibers used for benchrest competition beyond 300 yards.

Read the NRA high power rules and you'll see what constitutes a "service rifle" by those standards to be eligible to use in that category.

Everyone does not have to shoot in competition to see how accurate their stuff is. None of their stuff knows where it's being shot anyway (I don't think neither rifles nor ammo has a memory-based, brain-controlled nervous system, do they?). And benchrest gear is not the only super-accurate hardware suite on this planet in spite of what most folks think.
 
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Ah, so the .308 is the only round shot at 6am in canyons and the rounds that win competitions and set records arn't? Or maybe the .308's carriage turns into a pumpkin after 8am?

And I realise benchrest isn't the only game in town, mr bart. I also realise that in many long range shoots that don't restrict you to military cartridges the .308 isn't even seen. You'd think if the .308 was as accurate as you suggest someone would use it. Or set records with it. Or win matches with it maybe...
 
Semi-- The 308 is still used in F class very much. One of the guys I shoot with just won the 1000 yard Grand Masters Match this year with a custom built 308.
There are close to a dozen people I shoot with that still use the 308. In fact one guy in here shoots F Class with a Savage Axis in 308 and holds is own with it.
Yes it is definetly out classed from the get go,but is still being used.
On windy day's I still take my 308 and 175 smk's to the matches. The 6BR is nice,but 107 gn to 175 gn helps on those days
 
Semi- I used to shoot FTR. Then I had to admitt to my self that I can't shot off a Bi pod if my life depended on it:D. Switch to F Class. Im 52 and have a little bit of a wobble when I try FTR. That laying on the belly really help with that. I have a few that are trying to talk me into Bench Rest,but for now F Class is very fun and one humbling experience for me. I hold my own very well,but have so much to learn about doping the wind.

Ther's a lot of good people in here ( knowledge wise ). I can put a lot of faith in what Bart say's. The saying that still floats around a lot is--The 308 is inherently a very accurate rifle. More so than others in it class ( 30-30,30-06, 300 ) I believe this to be true. In all my matches and shooting time. I never see any one shooting any of those calibers in matches. Not that they are not as good,but you just don't see it. All the matches I go to, It is run by 308's,6.5,6MM,ect ect. Never a 30-06,243,25-06.300's. So I have to go with the 308 as the best in that category. I still stay with what I said earlier. The 308 is the best all around set up,but is the best at no one thing,just good at all of them. I think if just one rifle was to be purchased for hunting,matches,paper punching,varmint, ect,ect, The 308 would be the one to go with. But that's just MHO and I am old:D and out dated.Vintage 60 series model.
 
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I agree the .308 is good at everything, but not best at anything. (I said as much earlier) I own a .308, I reload for it. It's a great all-round cartridge and thats it's strong suit. But my point was it's not the best at any one thing. As far as military rounds, it is obsolete. The only thing keeping it around is cost and the military's tenacious grip on what's familiar.

Barts points about the .308 shooting the smallest groups and being the choice for service rifles is about moot. If you had a race between fiats and yugos and fiats won, you still couldn't go around saying fiats were the fastest cars in the world. If I happened to see a saturn ion racing a dodge viper down a mountain road and the ion was in front, I couldn't really say that saturn ions are faster than dodge vipers. Not that anyone would believe me anyway. Even if I raced cars myself. Especially if a viper held the world record at driving down that mountain.
 
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Keep in mind that being phased out by a military does not mean it is phased out by shooters.

The 30-06 is not used by our military, but it’s still the most popular big game round sold in America.
The 45-70 is still popular enough to have several gun companies making rifles for it.
The 45 Colt is quite popular in revolvers despite being phased out almost 100 years ago by our army.

In Europe today both the 8X57 and the 7.62X54R are popular for sportsmen.
In Australia New Zealand and Canada the 303 British has a very strong following.

Heck, I still earn most of my living making flintlocks, and I know 6 men in Wyoming, Montana and Nevada that make a full time living making old fashioned bows and wood arrows.
 
Generally, hunting rifles don't wear out. Given how many hunting rifles are chambered in .308, the cartridge will be around pretty much forever, looks like to me.

All in all, looks like to me that competition target shooting and military use are pretty much irrelevant to ongoing use by a much larger group of shooters.
 
I think y'all may have forgotten the question...


What's your guess for the future of the .308/7.62x51nato?
Just curious and I know any answers will be purely speculation but nonetheless, how much longer do you believe that the 7.62x51 Nato will be a standard issue service cartridge? Do you think it will last longer than the 5.56?
*
Its not standard issue. It lasted what, 14 years as standard issue? The 5.56 has gone over 45 years....

I don't think the OP intended it to be a civilian use related question. See that missing chunk of knowledge in his question?

As it is, the 7.62 was a military designed cartridge created to emulate the 30-06 in a smaller package. One could easily argue that had their not been a huge surplus of 30-06 from WW1, had the military used the data available instead of clinging to the 30-06 (which is actually a pretty funny story by itself, anyone know what the M1 garand was origionaly chambered in?), and had they not been so bent on aimed shots; they would've used the .280 british or something similiar and the 5.56 and 7.62 never would of been created.

The data available being:
http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/pigboard.html

First done in 1928

And:

whatever study that I can't find the link to of all the recorded skirmishes of WW1 and 2 that basically said aimed shots weren't used and getting shot was basically a random event so he who shoots the most bullets wins the fights.
 
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Its not standard issue.
Click to expand...

7.62NATO IS standard issue.

Anything used by the military is standard issue. They use 7.62NATO in Remington700/M24/AR10/M240's so it is obviously standard issue to the military.

So, yes it will be around for a long time. At least until the US Mil decides to replace it with a different caliber. Who knows when that may be. They are still using 5.56NATO for decades and thats not going anywhere too.
 
Uhhhh....NO. STANDARD issue.


Which means what is basically handed to every soldier. EVERY soldier is not handed M14's, or M240's or M24's. They ARE issued M16 and M4's which are 5.56. 5.56 is STANDARD ISSUE. I would really like to see the standard issued AR-10's....

7.62x51 is SPECIAL issue. It is used for SPECIAL reasons. Like SDM's, snipers, machine guns. In most COMBAT platoons (this exludes all non combat MOS's) there are usually no more that 4 240's, MAYBE 2 M14's, NO AR-10's, NO M24's and between 20 and 50 M4's. There also may be 4 SAW's. The 240's are usually vehicle mounted and I have never seen them carried for an operation that wasn't going to remain static or (in a couple rare occasions) to punish soldiers who left their rifles somewhere. The M249's are carried. The M14's are, again, not carried and only used if needed/static.

In NON COMBAT MOS's you probably won't see that many 7.62 weapons. Or if you do, it's because they're in place of .50's and mk19's. I really can't think of any reason a mechanic, clerk or cook would need an M14....but I have heard of dumber stuff so I wouldn't put it beyond someone's reasoning.
 
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you are arguing semantics here. I hate when people do that. Its like all or nothing type thing. Special Issue vs Standard Issue...


So you're saying because not all soldiers are issued an M24 or AR10, then its not standard issue for all snipers or marksmen. I get what you're saying though. Its beside the point in this case and topic.

If we wanna argue that, then the M9 and M4 are not Standard Issue because not every soldier gets it.
 
Actually bart, I'm arguing standard issues caliber/cartridge, not rifle. The OP's question wasn't about the fate of the M14. M4 and M16's doesn't make a wiff of difference. They BOTH shoot 5.56. So if you have a point to be made I'd love to hear it.

Where is this ar-10 people keep saying?? When did you see an ar-10 issued? EVER?

I'm saying that it is not standard issued for the MILITARY. Or, is sniper now an MOS? I thought it was a speciality. I didn't know we had a sniper MOS. And the marksmen are all their own special MOS too?

Well, let me break it down for you bart, since you missed SPECIAL last time. Snipers are still issued m4's and 16's. They just also get a rifle chambered in a heavier flavor. Like .308, .300 win mag, or big fiffy. But the don't all get the 7.62x51, now do they? Hmmmm?

Now, being a sniper does not change the soldier's MOS. it does not change the soldier's primary rifle. It is special and used on special occasions. Like ramadan. And when the soldier moves he wil again get the 5.56 flavor.

So you could mince words and try to say the m24 is the standard issue....blah blah. But you'd be wrong. Because snipers are issued upgraded m16's, M14's and M82's. AND the M24 could come in .300 win mag or .308 flavors. So, please do tell my what is sniper standard issue and where does sniper sam, standard issue man fit in with everyone else?

And *ding ding ding* wrong yet again bart. Because everyone who gets a pistol, gets an m9. Regardless if you're MP, medic, occifer...you ALL get M9's. But 9mm is not a standard issue cartridge for...anyone. It, yet again, is SPECIAL issue. M4/m16 is still standard issue.
 
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"Soldier" means different things to different people.

Some officers in all USA service branches are not issued nor ever trained with firearms.

And some US Army people were issued AR10's a couple of years ago. Others were issued bolt action rifles chambered for the 7mm Remington Short-Action Ultra-Magnum.

According to a retired US Army colonel neighbor, some soldiers are not issued firearms of any type although they may well have been trained and familiarized with them upon entry into the service.
 
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