What's wrong with MAC-10?
- Thread starter RickB
- Start date
I disagree here. None of them, including the MAC type guns, work "spray and pray", they all need to be deliberately aimed at what you want to shoot if you want to make good hits. The MAC's do have a better shot at "possibly" making a lucky hit with a sweep due to their higher rate of fire, but your still going to have large gaps between rounds as the gun is swung, and an empty gun(or very close to it) by the end of the sweep. If you dont pick your target and shoot for COM, your in for iffy results at best and are relying more on luck than anything else.
If I had to pick between the MAC and MP5, I wouldnt hesitate to take the MP5. Its just a lot more versatile gun with a wider range of uses. Choosing between the MAC and Uzi would be a harder choice.
They used to. I used to work for a guy who at one time was a SWAT Team commander many years ago and they used suppressed MAC 10's when they wanted to.
I like the MAC but think for LE there are simply better choices. The MP5 with its closed bolt design, good sights and sight radius, ergonominc controls, controllability, & reliability makes a strong case and has earned its share of sales.
There are accessories for the MAC to address just about every criticism, but these are going to add cost.
As far as I know new full auto MAC's are not being made. Transferrable MAC's go for around $3K. No LE agency would pay $3K for a 30 year old MAC when they can pay less than $1K for a new HK or something else new.
Now if some company made a new full auto MAC with good sights, lower rate of fire for better control, more ergonomic placement of controls, modular design, more accurate (perhaps closed bolt) and added a few innovations they might have a chance at some LE agency sales. It seems the subgun is being phased out in favor of short 5.56's, so I wouldn't be making big investments in a new subgun company just trying to start up.
Well, If it needs all that, it doesn't seem to be such a good design afterall....
I'm not an expert with any of them, but have done more than just fired them to be familiar with the three discussed here. MP5 first, then UZI, then MAC10 would be my choice, in that order. But there are a few I would put in between the MP5 and the MAC, given a choice.
CobrayCommando
Moderator
I think someone should make an all metal, very heavy SMG, of MAC size, with a quality side folding stock (or one like the MP5 has), ROF of 1200 RPM, accurate and reliable, closed bolt, with good sights and a couple off picatinny rails.
There are modifications out there that turn a MAC into that, for about 2000 dollars or so, plus the cost of the gun.
Personally I don't see a problem with the rate of fire. Use bursts at long range, and full auto when its best (room distance).
IMO if someone made a new gun like that (heavy, suppressor, full auto, high ROF and in 9mm and .45), and built with the quality of an MP5, I think SWAT teams and such would start using it. They've used MACs and American 180s before, I think they just stopped because those companies had a rocky time staying in business, and then the MP5 came along.
There are modifications out there that turn a MAC into that, for about 2000 dollars or so, plus the cost of the gun.
Personally I don't see a problem with the rate of fire. Use bursts at long range, and full auto when its best (room distance).
IMO if someone made a new gun like that (heavy, suppressor, full auto, high ROF and in 9mm and .45), and built with the quality of an MP5, I think SWAT teams and such would start using it. They've used MACs and American 180s before, I think they just stopped because those companies had a rocky time staying in business, and then the MP5 came along.
I think Ruger makes a mac 10 clone with slower rof and closed bolt operation.
Check world.guns.ru
Check world.guns.ru
FDzerzhinsky
Inactive
*tosses in two cents*
I don't like the MAC simply because of it's look and the hype it gets. It simply looks too much like a "thug gun," but I could simply be succumbing to Hollywood stereotypes. Also, it just doesn't look as good as the other SMGs out there, and presentation is a good part of what people buy -- well, at least what I would buy.
Anyways, that's my two cents. Take it or leave it.
I don't like the MAC simply because of it's look and the hype it gets. It simply looks too much like a "thug gun," but I could simply be succumbing to Hollywood stereotypes. Also, it just doesn't look as good as the other SMGs out there, and presentation is a good part of what people buy -- well, at least what I would buy.
Anyways, that's my two cents. Take it or leave it.
Actually there is not anything wrong with the old mac 10/m11s as they i 
ntroduced a lot of first timers to the wonderful world of full auto ownership,they might not be the best weapon out there but the hold up well and are easy to work on,Military Armament Corp are the better of macs,granted they do not hold the mystic of a belt fed mg34.But then what does?If you have one just enjoy
ntroduced a lot of first timers to the wonderful world of full auto ownership,they might not be the best weapon out there but the hold up well and are easy to work on,Military Armament Corp are the better of macs,granted they do not hold the mystic of a belt fed mg34.But then what does?If you have one just enjoyThere is currently no MG34 upper conversion for the MAC type guns. BRP makes an MG34 upper conversion unit for the M16; the XMG-99 - it runs about $4k.
From what I've heard, either Len Savage or Ernie from SOCOM (and quite possibly both working together since Ernie seems to still be having some legal troubles) are re-starting the RPD upper project for the MAC. Again, as I understand it, the price should be around $4k, but I've also heard prices could be as high as $7k.
From what I've heard, either Len Savage or Ernie from SOCOM (and quite possibly both working together since Ernie seems to still be having some legal troubles) are re-starting the RPD upper project for the MAC. Again, as I understand it, the price should be around $4k, but I've also heard prices could be as high as $7k.
MAC 10 revised!
Hi there SMG buffs,
I have both items mentioned earlier. Here I present my opinion, I won't share the other at present.
Seems to me that if you did all the things the MAC needs to make it better you'd have an entirely different piece. Also, it would cost many bucks.
Going back to my original admittedely cursory experience with MAC 10 (in 9mm), Uzi (full size, folder, 9mm), and the MP5. I repeat that the H&K MP5 is a thoroghbred, the Uzi is a workman's tool, and the MAC 10 is a cheapie along the lines of the WW2 Sten gun. It works. I ain't any where near perfect.
You really can't compare the MAC because it was designed for cheap, mass production and I am sure if Ingram, the designer, sat back and conjured up a perfect SMG it would have been better in every way than the one which was produced.
Thought I'd throw my two centys in to keep the conversation going.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=1704085#
Big Grin
AAW
Hi there SMG buffs,
I have both items mentioned earlier. Here I present my opinion, I won't share the other at present.
Seems to me that if you did all the things the MAC needs to make it better you'd have an entirely different piece. Also, it would cost many bucks.
Going back to my original admittedely cursory experience with MAC 10 (in 9mm), Uzi (full size, folder, 9mm), and the MP5. I repeat that the H&K MP5 is a thoroghbred, the Uzi is a workman's tool, and the MAC 10 is a cheapie along the lines of the WW2 Sten gun. It works. I ain't any where near perfect.
You really can't compare the MAC because it was designed for cheap, mass production and I am sure if Ingram, the designer, sat back and conjured up a perfect SMG it would have been better in every way than the one which was produced.
Thought I'd throw my two centys in to keep the conversation going.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=1704085#
Big Grin
AAW
The MAC type guns can indeed be made competitive with far more expensive guns, and at quite a reasonable cost overall. The results of the national subgun matches at KCR are testament to that - M11 shooters often beat MP5's in the open class. The TASK slow-fire conversion only costs a few hundred bucks, or can be done at home if you've handy with tools. Richard Lage is in the process of developing a slow-fire upper which brings the RoF down to about 600rpm. The crude sights of the M11 can be replaced with an HK type sights. Personally, I've used an almost bone-stock M11 in competition and done better than guys with far more expensive guns (all that was done to mine was a k-grip was added, and the wobbly wire stock was welded to the open position). Practice makes perfect, and while an out of the box M11 is no match for an MP5, some modifications can make it competitive for a shooter who takes the time to practice. All in all, for significantly less than the price of a $14,000 MP5 or a $6500 Uzi, an M11 can be modified to be quite competitive with those weapons.
I have had the chance to shoot around 200 different machinguns over the last 20 years (I have some very nice friends with big collections), including most variations of the MAC. In it's original format, straight from the factory, the MAC is (compared to almost all others) bulky, awkward, blocky, crude, and hard to hit with. It is totally lacking any ergonomics, grace or style.
It is inexpensive, reliable (if well maintained), and, as noted, can be modified into something it is not, a controllable, usefull, subgun.
It's a mostly free country, if you like it, by all means buy and enjoy one.
It is inexpensive, reliable (if well maintained), and, as noted, can be modified into something it is not, a controllable, usefull, subgun.
It's a mostly free country, if you like it, by all means buy and enjoy one.
