What's wrong with inexpensive SXS shotguns?
- Thread starter Eskimo
- Start date
OkieCruffler
New member
I've been swinging the same fence post for 26 years, sure hope I can hit a moving target one of these days.
At one time, both CZ (Ceska Zbrojovka) and Brno (Zbrojovka Brno) made SxS guns of high quality. CZ eventually switched to O/Us exclusively, and then more or less stopped making their own shotguns entirely. CZ outsources virtually all of their shotguns from Turkey these days.
This model may actually be Czech-made, but I can't tell. I suspect that it is just a semi-custom Turkish model.
http://cz-usa.com/products/view/comp-ringneck/
CZ bought out Brno a few years ago, and Brno continues to make very high quality O/U shotguns under the BRNO RIFLES label. They are priced accordingly.
http://cz-usa.com/products/view/brno-8012-12ga-ou/
corvairkid64
New member
Being an admitted newbie to shotguns and on a limited budget, I'll have to stick with my fencepost for a while. Taking it to an indoor target range this morning and then to a trap/skeet range this afternoon. I haven't had the opportunity to try the higher end guns that many of you recommend, so I don't have a frame of reference to compare against my "B".
I think I've caught the bug to buy another gun in my future though and I do have a soft spot for side-by-sides. Any recommendations for a good quality one?
Approx. cost?
I think I've caught the bug to buy another gun in my future though and I do have a soft spot for side-by-sides. Any recommendations for a good quality one?
Approx. cost?
oneounceload
Moderator
One of the better budget-conscious SxS's would be the "Uggie", or Ugartechea from Spain. Nicely built.
http://www.doubleshotguns.com/ is the importer, but they are sold by several folks.
With a base model starting about $1500, you should be able to find a nice used one for less.
corvairkid64
New member
Thanks oneounceload.
The Ugartecheas are nice looking guns and the price range for the box locks is reasonable.
Could be a possible step-up from my "B".
How are they for over-all quality, durability, parts availability?
The Ugartecheas are nice looking guns and the price range for the box locks is reasonable.
Could be a possible step-up from my "B".
How are they for over-all quality, durability, parts availability?
oneounceload
Moderator
Their base model doesn't have the finish done as nicely as their higher-end guns, but that is the same for any maker. Boxlocks also tend to be a lot less than sidelocks - some will laud the sidelock, others curse it. The boxlock is just as reputable, IMO, as the sidelock and I feel, a little stronger. AyA has their base model called the 4/53 - sold through many with Cabela's being the bigger importer/seller. I would rank the Uggie on par with the AyA - and that gun is $3500. LGS sells them, there are many good folks who can fix them.
If you go to shotgunworld.com and scroll ALL the way down to the "I love my XXX" section, there's one for the Spanish guns. You'll find a lot of info from folks who own them and have had repairs done, etc. Ask away, they'll be glad to help, give advice and opinions, and compare/contrast with the others.
If you go to shotgunworld.com and scroll ALL the way down to the "I love my XXX" section, there's one for the Spanish guns. You'll find a lot of info from folks who own them and have had repairs done, etc. Ask away, they'll be glad to help, give advice and opinions, and compare/contrast with the others.
corvairkid64
New member
Thanks oneounceload!
You've been very helpful!
By the way.... shot over 150 rounds today... my shoulder hurts, but I'm a happy 61 yr. old man!
You've been very helpful!
By the way.... shot over 150 rounds today... my shoulder hurts, but I'm a happy 61 yr. old man!
I would definitely heed the advice given here to buy high if you intend to hit accurately with both barrels at distance.
On the other hand, I love my inexpensive little Stoeger Coach Gun. I bought it for cowboy action shooting and have seen a heck of a lot of shooters do exceptionally well with these - at relatively close range! Of course, the application is fairly large targets at fairly close range. Both barrels of mine hit well regulated - at close distances. I haven't even bothered with any distant targets.
For home defense or closer in work, I think you can be quite well served with a double that doesn't cost big bucks.
For distance and moving targets, go with a single or part with the money for a really good double.
On the other hand, I love my inexpensive little Stoeger Coach Gun. I bought it for cowboy action shooting and have seen a heck of a lot of shooters do exceptionally well with these - at relatively close range! Of course, the application is fairly large targets at fairly close range. Both barrels of mine hit well regulated - at close distances. I haven't even bothered with any distant targets.
For home defense or closer in work, I think you can be quite well served with a double that doesn't cost big bucks.
For distance and moving targets, go with a single or part with the money for a really good double.
SXS
Great thread. Lots of good info. Used is good.
All of my SXSs were bought used, except for an inexpensive IZH-43 that was my first (got a good review from American Rifleman as a starter SG). The others are all older guns and come up to my shoulder like they were fitted for me - two Ithaca Flues, a Le Fever, and a Parker VH. I treat them carefully - nothing heavier than target loads (which have proven just fine for pheasant and grouse). Some folk, depending on their intended use might find that approach too limiting. I have been taking the Parker to the Trap range since my recent discovery of that sport. Shot a 20/25 the other day on my fourth trip to the range - not remarkable but my best so far. One of the "never-miss-Ljutic" shooters said to me "you're doing ok with that gun". The point being that the old, used guns work just fine and are worth thinking about. None of them cost more me than $400.
Pete
Great thread. Lots of good info. Used is good.
All of my SXSs were bought used, except for an inexpensive IZH-43 that was my first (got a good review from American Rifleman as a starter SG). The others are all older guns and come up to my shoulder like they were fitted for me - two Ithaca Flues, a Le Fever, and a Parker VH. I treat them carefully - nothing heavier than target loads (which have proven just fine for pheasant and grouse). Some folk, depending on their intended use might find that approach too limiting. I have been taking the Parker to the Trap range since my recent discovery of that sport. Shot a 20/25 the other day on my fourth trip to the range - not remarkable but my best so far. One of the "never-miss-Ljutic" shooters said to me "you're doing ok with that gun". The point being that the old, used guns work just fine and are worth thinking about. None of them cost more me than $400.
Pete
Hawg Haggen: I have an old double made around 1905,
very tight and solid and it hits what I point it at. I plan on taking it after birds this fall. It is a Crescent-US made sidelock with 30" barrels M&F, and it is just fine with 2 3/4" game loads. Needed some cleaning up, but is looking pretty good right now.
mark
very tight and solid and it hits what I point it at. I plan on taking it after birds this fall. It is a Crescent-US made sidelock with 30" barrels M&F, and it is just fine with 2 3/4" game loads. Needed some cleaning up, but is looking pretty good right now.
mark
oneounceload
Moderator
Was it originally chambered for 2-3/4 or 2-1/2? Many folks may not realize that an unfired 2-3/4 WILL fit in a gun chambered for 2-1/2 as the shell length is measured on a fired hull. The issue becomes pressure, and many guns built around the turn of the last century just aren't strong enough for a dose of over-pressure. If your gun was originally built for 2-3/4, I would still not feed it the current uber-powered loads, but go with your basic 1200fps loadings like those found in most target loads
more
Just yesterday I took the Baikal IZH-43 (to which I referred in post #32) to the trap range. I was shooting with a bunch of other duffers and that inexpensive SXS did as well in my inexpert hands as any of the guns that the other guys were shooting; I missed only one on stations 2-3-4. Station 5 was another matter entirely but that wasn't the gun's fault. Now....will that gun last at the volume that some of these fellows shoot? I suspect not but, for now, it works.
Pete
Just yesterday I took the Baikal IZH-43 (to which I referred in post #32) to the trap range. I was shooting with a bunch of other duffers and that inexpensive SXS did as well in my inexpert hands as any of the guns that the other guys were shooting; I missed only one on stations 2-3-4. Station 5 was another matter entirely but that wasn't the gun's fault. Now....will that gun last at the volume that some of these fellows shoot? I suspect not but, for now, it works.
Pete
oneounceload
Moderator
No, it won't - but then again, it wasn't built for that task. There are reasons competition-grade, game-specific guns cost what they do - they are built to shoot targets numbering in the hundreds of thousands. Even the best of the best game guns from Purdey et al, are not built for that usage - many of them are sent in yearly after the "shooting season" for a minor tune-up. If it works for you, then enjoy it and have fun. If you ever decide that a particular game is for you, you'll appreciate the difference. Until that time - have at it!
Mike Irwin
Staff
"A Beretta or Fausti would not have fatigued that quickly and would probably not have broken, yet."
In the late 1980s a friend brought his new Citori to the range, all proud of himself that he was able to afford a new gun.
He fired his first two shots.
Reloaded.
Closed the breech.
Bottom barrel fired.
Did it several more times.
His $1,000 or so shotgun, had taken exactly two shots for the trigger mechanism to fail badly.
In the late 1980s a friend brought his new Citori to the range, all proud of himself that he was able to afford a new gun.
He fired his first two shots.
Reloaded.
Closed the breech.
Bottom barrel fired.
Did it several more times.
His $1,000 or so shotgun, had taken exactly two shots for the trigger mechanism to fail badly.
oneounceload said:
I've owned a CZ Bobwhite 20g for about a year now. While it may not be a high end gun, it has held up well enough and my scores at trap/skeet/wobble are up a bit from the 12g 870 I was using before. I only have 250rnds through it so far, but no problems yet.
Chris
Not to be overly simplistic -- but Browning makes about 25 models of their Citori lineup of guns -- that range in price today from about $ 1,750 - to around $4,000 ....and in a wide variety of specs for field shooting, Skeet, Trap and Sporting Clays. The barrel connection on all the models are identical, I think ?, and the barrels, firing pins, springs, ejectors, etc look like they are all made to similar specs .... adj combs, quality of wood, etc are part of the difference... But when someone says "Citori" ...I always wonder which gun they're talking about ?
I also would never say Browning doesn't have an issue once in a while ...or Beretta ...etc / but hands down, I think you will find a Browning or a Beretta will give you a much better long term shotgun than anything made from Stoeger, CZ, etc ....and I think that is seen in the used gun market today on both the Browning and Beretta O/U's.
What none of us can measure on these cheaper O/U's is the quality of the steel in the receivers, barrels, springs, etc ....but for my vote, until these less expensive guns can prove they will last ( where 95% of the guns they make ) will perform with no issues for at least 50,000 shells ... I won't trust them / and I will continue to buy and shoot my Browning O/U's.
I also would never say Browning doesn't have an issue once in a while ...or Beretta ...etc / but hands down, I think you will find a Browning or a Beretta will give you a much better long term shotgun than anything made from Stoeger, CZ, etc ....and I think that is seen in the used gun market today on both the Browning and Beretta O/U's.
What none of us can measure on these cheaper O/U's is the quality of the steel in the receivers, barrels, springs, etc ....but for my vote, until these less expensive guns can prove they will last ( where 95% of the guns they make ) will perform with no issues for at least 50,000 shells ... I won't trust them / and I will continue to buy and shoot my Browning O/U's.