Whats this win m12 worth

i like them all including the model 37 ithaca and they all have plues and minuses. if you shop around you can buy a win 12,rem 870 or a ithaca in good condition for around 300.00 that will last a life time of hunting. for all the guns i have mentioned i have gotten for 300.00 or less. here are two ithaca,s i have and use,a 16ga solid rib and a later 12ga with vent rib. eastbank.
 

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You either need the seller to knock those prices down by about half or you need a new seller/dealer. Even in over-priced Massachusetts those prices are very, very, very optimistic.
 
Those Ithaca's look nice. There is a pawn shop selling an Ithaca that looks like the bottom one in your pictures. The pawn shop only wants $180 for it, and I think I can get them down to $150, but I have stayed away from it because there is rust and debris inside the receiver. I am willing to buy older used shotguns, but I don't want a project.
 
if he will let you take the barrel off and spray gum out into the action and work the action several times and then spray again,you will be surpized what junk and debris comes out. if there is no major rust left in the action i would look at it closley, it could be a real good deal at that price. eastbank.
 
There are too many good used guns out there ....

I would recommend you pass on anything that had rust in it - especially if you intend to keep this gun a long time - like you seem to be indicating.

View attachment 61804

Here is a photo of my two pump guns ( both bought in the late 1970's ) - the top one is the 12ga / bottom one the 20ga - both Browning BPS Hunter models, 28" barrels. I couldn't tell you how many birds and clays they have each taken ....and they've both been thru 2 boys, learning to shoot, and several grandkids now ....with conservatively 25,000 shells each thru them...

If they were for sale (and they're not) they would be spotless inside and out ...not full of debris -- let alone rust ... / there are some cosmetic nicks on the stocks ( but not many ) ...considering all the use they've gotten over 30+ years ( and from 75 - 78? or so, the 12ga BPS was the only shotgun I had / so it did everything ) ...
 
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Cool, I should not sleep on the BPS. I don't know if I mentioned this earlier or not but my friend found a BPS upland at at pawnshop, and he described the gun as almost flawless looking (95%). I called them today they have it at $320. Over the phone they offered $300. It has a 28 inch barrel and a screw in full choke. I think I'll drive over there today and take a look at it, and take some pictures. I'd like to know the year too.

BigJim do you know the actual differences between the Hunter and the upland. I can tell the stock shape is different. Is that all? Is one heavier etc.?
 
The BPS Hunter model from Browning site

http://www.browning.com/products/ca...d=012&type_id=211&content=bps-hunter-firearms

The BPS Upland

http://www.browning.com/products/ca...pe_id=216&content=bps-upland-special-firearms

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the primary difference is the length of barrel on the Upland model / the current catalog lists them in 12ga at 22" ( which is very short - it makes the gun real "whippy" ). The length of pull on the Hunter model is 14 1/4" and the upland is 14" - both are pretty short ( I like mine at about 14 1/2") - but drop at Heel and drop at Comb are the same on both --- and weight on upland is a few ounces less. They list new for about the same price $ 599 but I think the average street price new is around $ 525.

"Fit" is the big thing on a shotgun / so it hits where you look. You may find over time / that you need less drop at comb and/or heel - but either can have comb pads or different recoil pads put on them to "fit" you.

I also like a little more weight in my typical "field gun" ... in a 12ga up around 8 1/2 lbs is better for me / so the weight helps me smooth out my swing on follow thru. If I go shorter than a 28" barrel / I tend to steer the gun with my forward hand / and it gets too whippy --- where I "swat" at targets or birds vs shoot smoothly and follow thru smoothly. Remember - pulling the trigger on a shotgun is the start of the shot ( not the end ) -- you have to follow thru / or you will be behind every thing ...

The longer barrel gives a longer sight plane too ...which is a plus. The argument for the "upland" is in a brushy area .... guys want a lightning quick gun for grouse, etc ....but frankly, I'm just as quick with a 28" as I would be with a 26" or 24" ....and I can shoot them way better / and they're more versatile ( for me ) .... What works best for you / don't know ....

The resale on the Hunter model, in 28" --- will be way better than the Upland model ---because a lot more shooters will adapt to it better than the shorter 22" barrel ( for birds, clays, etc )... I've even gone to a 30" barrel on my semi-auto / and 30" barrels on my Over Unders which I bird hunt with a lot as well. A Browning Citori XS Skeet model, in 12, 20, 28ga - all with 30" barrels and a parallel adj comb are my primary guns for bird hunting, Skeet and Sporting Clays. For Trap I go - even heavier and longer - Browning XT Citori, 32" barrels, and a gun at around 10 lbs ....

remember - models change over the years too / or someone might have ordered that used Upland model with a different barrel ....but the basic BPS has been the same action for a long time.

There are 2 choke systems / the older guns ( prior to about 1990 ) had the "Invector chokes" - they screw in but they are about 1" in overall length. Since around 1990 - Browning went to the Invector Plus - where the screw in chokes are about 3" long. They are Not Interchangeable ...
The Invecotor Plus system - seems to be a little better ....but my older Brownings - a couple of old Citori Lightning's - and the 2 pump guns -- are both the older Invector style and they pattern just fine. The last several guns I've bought ( XT's, BT-100, XS Skeet models, etc ) were all Invector Plus systems ....and I typically use the Browning Midas grade extended chokes for all those guns...).

good luck.
 
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I kept seeing the words invector or invector plus. glad to know what that means now. Also I'm not convinced this upland really has a 28 inch barrel. The lady on the phone sounded way in over her head, and like she just wanted to get off the phone. I'll know the whole story today when I go look at it. I guess if it really does have a 28inch barrel on it, it may be a nice compromise to the things you like in a hunter and the things good about the upland...?
 
Yes, probably...

Check the stamped marks on the barrel - you want a gun that is chambered in 3". I don't remember if some of the older guns / prior to screw in chokes --were chambered in 2 3/4" or 3" chambers -- but a lot of the older guns are only 2 3/4" chambers.

There are some older fixed choke guns / where a gunsmith fit them for "screw in chokes" as well. So just check what the barrel says - on every shotgun.

Remember the size of a shell is determined after its fired / so the pedals crimped on top are extended. You can fire 2 3/4" or 3" shells in a 3" chamber / but you cannot fire 3" shells in a 2 3/4" chamber...there isn't room for the shell to expand. The problem is / unfired --- a 3" shell will fit into a gun chambered in 2 3/4" because unfired the shell is short enough to go in - but it won't be good if its fired.

The BPS / at least in 12ga to my knowledge is not available in 3 1/2" chambers - which some shooters think is necessary for waterfowl. Personally, a gun chambered in 3" is just fine / but you need to know what the gun is stamped.

All BPS's I've ever seen - are also stamped on the barrel whether they are Invector or Invector Plus .... or older ones may say Full or Modified ... or have some " * " symbols on them ..../ and the length of the barrel is marked on them as well. So all this should be real easy....

"Field" guns are commonly 3" or some in 3 1/2" chambers ( in last 5 yrs or so).
Many "Target grade guns" -- are 2 3/4" ....like the Citoir XS Skeet models ...

You have to match your shells to your gun / and "naming" of commercial shells - the term "Magnum" gets tossed around a lot ... and in 12ga ...magnums come in 3" and many of them come in 3 1/2" ....so you have to know your gun / and your shells ...not just by gague / also chamber length.
Don't mix up "chamber length" on a shell - with velocity -- that is measure in Dram Equivalent - where you will see 3 Dr Eq on a lot of shells / they might still, and often are, 2 3/4" shells .....

just buy a gun chambered in 3" ....whether its a BPS or something else ---and you'll be fine.
 
Well I went to look at the browning and it was so clean, and the guy knocked $20, and threw in a soft case. I just went ahead and bought it. I think owning a newer gun like this one will be a good thing for a beginner like me. It came with a full invector plus choke. Now I can go buy a few more, and really see what I like best.

Here's some pictures:
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Congratulations - looks like you did very well.

Invector Plus chokes come in 'flush' or "extended" - and Browning makes them - and so do the big name choke companies like Briley.
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Briley's Options on chokes...(for Invector Plus)

http://www.briley.com/browninginvectorpluschokes.aspx
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Brownings Options on Invector Plus

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/family.asp?webflag_=003J&catalog_=J&content=Choke-Tubes

I prefer the Midas Grade extended chokes - but the flush ones are fine too.

You would be in pretty good shape if you have a Full, a Modified and an Improved Cyclinder ( which is what it would have come with new).

Make sure and give us a range report / and take it to the pattern board ( with the full choke) and check the point of impact ( shoot at a dot ) and see if its hitting high or low for you - based on the current angle of the stock, etc. Remember as you move up or back on that comb - the muzzle moves up and down ....so getting it to fit right / and then having a consistent mount is a really bid deal to your sucessful shooting.

Have some fun !!
 
Cool, I will report back. Obviously my friend was mistaken this isn't an upland. Is it a hunter?

Again thanks for the advice.
 
It looks to me like its a Hunter model / but I don't remember if my pumps are stamped "Hunter" or not on the barrel or anywhere ...

As far as I know - the receivers on the Upland and the Hunter are the same / so it doesn't really matter. I noted the barrel in the photos says its a 3" and Invector Plus .... so it is, what it is / but I would call it a Hunter model.

Just a Note: if you find the gun is too light for you .... Go to a Golf Store and pick up a package of "lead tape" -- they sell it in packages to add weight to a driver, etc ... and there is room under the forend / to tape about 8oz .... and then take about 8oz and put it inside the stock / remove the recoil pad. Before you add any weight / check the balance point / and put some masking tape on receiver -- to find the balance point, and mark it .... so after you add weight / you can move the weight fore and aft --- so you don't screw up the balance between your hands. I like about 8oz in front and 8oz in back to increase it to about 8 1/2 lbs ...
 
Cool, well it definitely feels heavier than the Ithaca, and Wingmaster I've been looking at, but those are well known to be light guns. After my weekend at the range I'll see how the weight feels. Man... these choke tubes are not cheap.
 
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Choke tubes aren't cheap, but they do last a good while. With TLC and PM, this setup should work for the next hundred years.

The Browning pumps I've handled run maybe 6-10 oz heavier than 870s. Good guns, too.

Enjoy......
 
Is the whole ported choke thing BS? Or is there a difference but the difference is too subtle for a beginner to notice?
 
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