What’s the smallest handgun that is still effective at 100m?

B

Bartholomew Roberts

Moderator
I’ve shot my Glock 26 out to 100m before and one of the things I like about it is that it is a subcompact pistol that shoots like a full-size pistol. Lately, I could say the same thing about the S&W Shield and SIG P365.

But it has me wondering, how small can you go before your pistol is basically a near-contact weapon? It seems these days a lot of the smaller pistols are made with 15yds as “long distance.”

ETA: And by “effective”, I mean able to deliver A or B zone hits on an IPSC silhouette with enough energy to penetrate 12” of ballistics gel at 100m.
 
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I would suggest that the real question is how many shooters can reliably and repeatedly deliver A or B zone hits at 100 yards, with any handgun.
 
Is that such a difficult task? An IPSC silhouette is 19” x 40” or thereabouts? Hold at the IPSC “shoulder” with a 4” barrel and you’ll drop them right in the thoracic cavity at 100m.

FWIW, you can hit stationary targets at 300yds with shotgun slugs. ;)
 
The A/B zone is only 6" wide. There aren't many handguns that can reliably hit that at 100 yards even if fired from a Ransom Rest. Put a human behind the trigger and the odds are worse.
 
"Effective" is one of those terms that is often misunderstood, and sometimes meaningless.

If a bullet has any effect, it's effective. Maybe not as effective as you'd like. So what is meant when you ask about effectiveness? What does it mean to you?

I have several 22 handguns. I can keep all my shots on an 8-1/2 X 11 inch piece of paper at 100 yards with them if I have a bit of time. Say 2-3 seconds per shot.
I can keep a soda can in danger with all my shots at 100 yards too, but I hit maybe 1/4 of them on that can, the rest missing by short distances.

If I shot a bad-guy with a 22 LR at 100 yards would it have an effect?

Would that effect be that he charged me?

Or would he run?

Or hide?

Or would he surrender?

Any of the above is "an effect".

So it falls back to the fact that in a fight it's 98% the man and 2% what he is using. Same with the enemy. And we can't know all the possibilities.

What if he was just as good a marksman as you are?

Or what if he has a rifle?

Or what if he can get in a car and try to run over you?

Or phone call 3 friends?

We want pat answers. There are none if we are honest.

I have killed about 35 head of game with handguns in my life ranging from small buck deer to bull buffalo. Every one of them but one was killed with 1 shot each, and the one that is the exception was killed with 2 shots. The closest one was killed with a 45ACP at about 7 yards and the farthest one was an antelope I killed at about 135 yards with a 357 magnum. My smallest "big game" killed with a handgun was a 3 point mule deer shot with a 44 mag,(which ran about 20 yards after the hit) and the largest game animal I ever killed was a buffalo at about 35 yards with the same 44 mag. (Which dropped dead at the shot) In addition to these animals I have killed a fair number of domestic horses, cattle and sheep and a few goats with various handguns.
I have killed big game with 357 mags, 44 mags, 44 specials, 45ACPs and 45 Colts, 45 cal Ruger Old Army cap and ball, and a 454 Casull.

But not every animal I have killed fell at the shot. Were those that ran a bit shot with an "Ineffective" gun?

With all respect given, please understand what I am saying here.

Maybe the question needs to be asked in some different way. Because it can't be answered in a definitive way the way it's posted here.
 
This guy could have done it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tied-t1fFsk

I've never tried 100 yards with a handgun. Very little work beyond 25 yards until recently but in the last couple of months have been shooting out to 50 yards wtih my carry guns. Glocks mostly. I've done better than expected at 50 but for now at 100 I just hope I could make someone keep their heads down and hopefully go away.

For what ever reason I didn't shoot my G26 well, nor the G43 I used to have. The G19 and larger guns shoot great for me. Maybe it was just those individual guns, but I shoot my Ruger LC9s MUCH better than the G26 or G43. Even at 25-50 yards.
 
The A/B zone is only 6" wide. There aren't many handguns that can reliably hit that at 100 yards even if fired from a Ransom Rest. Put a human behind the trigger and the odds are worse.
Click to expand...

At 100m, I’m not looking for 100% A or B zone hits, I’m just looking at probability to deliver.
 
I’d say a nice 1911 in .38 super. Nice tuned trigger, 5 inch sight radius, and the extra energy the .38 super gives you at that distance compared to 9mm. I’d also throw in a vote for a revolver, maybe in .41 mag like a Blackhawk or something. I know your question is how small a package I’d go for that kind of distance shooting, but I’d want the longest barrel/sights possible but not cumbersome.
 
Bartholomew Roberts said:
Is that such a difficult task? An IPSC silhouette is 19” x 40” or thereabouts? Hold at the IPSC “shoulder” with a 4” barrel and you’ll drop them right in the thoracic cavity at 100m.
Click to expand...
What are you shooting? I shoot 1911s in .45 ACP. For standard-power 230-grain .45 ACP, the bullet drop at 100 yards is 19.31 inches. To hit even the B zone at 199 yards I would have to be aiming at open air above the top of the target.

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ballistic-trajectory-chart.php?t=4d524fc3
 
When I was up in WY last year for a steel dinger shoot, some of the guys grabbed their carry pieces and had a little ad hoc contest on the 100yd pipe, which was about 6"x12" if memory serves. There were more misses than hits, I can tell you. It did ring the bell when they hit, and generically speaking, I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of any of those bullets, but I don't really know how effective they would be for self-defense purposes at that range... which is how I view handguns. Although I didn't compete with them, I was hitting the very same pipe the day previously with my 4" .41 Magnum pretty much 5 for 6... but I had worked up to it. For that matter, I was hitting the 500yd dinger, probably 40"x40", with the same pistol from a sitting position. I even got 2 6 for 6 hits, and that was me holding some serious front sight up.

Someone mentioned shotguns... my brother bought a new Winchester 12ga pump many years ago, it came with a slug barrel, so I bought a box of slugs. We were shooting bowling pins at 100yds, so I though... why not? I chambered up a round, guy next to me said 'there's no WAY on earth you are going to hit that!' which just made me more determined. BOOM! ...first shot... it hit the pin and knocked it about 20' up the backstop, splitting the pin almost completely in two. I don't know who was more surprised, me or him. Point being, I would never have guessed a slug would be that 'effective' at that range... so you never can tell.
 
A long time ago I was at my dad’s range. They had a 300 meter gong.

We were shooting .44 caliber cap and ball revolvers at 25 yards and mine was this rickety old loose Italian thing, but it was shooting well. The old man says “go on, try to hit the gong!”

So, I raise my arm. Think. Raise my arm more, then more, then a little more such that it feels like I am aiming at the clouds on the horizon. BOOM!

Nothing. We bust out laughing. Laugh some more. BONG!

We stare at each other then laugh so hard we are rolling on the ground.

I reckon that was about a 10,000 to one shot but we will never know because once you make a shot like that you make up every excuse under the sun to never try again. It will only spoil your reputation as a dead-eye.

We could never safely attempt stuff like that where I live because without a mountain as a backstop....
 
What's the smallest gun Jerry has popped a balloon with at 100? I saw him do it on his second shot with a glock he was holding upside down, I bet he could do it with an LCP.
 
7.62x25 Tokarev. I have both a Zastava M57 and CZ52. Good truck gun for ferrel hogs.
Here's some data from an online ballistic calculator:

Drag Function: G1
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.129
Bullet Weight: 90 gr
Initial Velocity: 1700 fps
Sight Height : .625 in
Shooting Angle: 0° Wind Speed: 0 mph
Wind Angle: 0°
Zero Range: 10 yd
Chart Range: 100 yd
Maximum Range: 2021 yd
Step Size: 10 yd
International Standard Atmosphere
Altitude: Sea Level (0 ft)
Barometric Pressure: 29.92 Hg
Temperature: 59° F
Relative Humidity: 50%
Speed of Sound: 1116 fps

Range Elevation Elevation Elevation Windage Windage Windage Time Energy Vel[x+y]
(yd) (in) (MOA) (MIL) (in) (MOA) (MIL) (s) (ft.lbf) (ft/s)
0 -0.6 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 578 1700
10 -0.01 0.08 0.02 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.02 542 1647
20 0.47 -2.22 -0.65 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.04 509 1596
30 0.81 -2.56 -0.75 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.06 478 1547
40 1.00 -2.39 -0.70 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.08 449 1499
50 1.05 -1.99 -0.58 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.10 422 1452
60 0.92 -1.46 -0.43 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.12 396 1407
70 0.62 -0.85 -0.25 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.14 372 1364
80 0.13 -0.16 -0.05 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.16 350 1323
90 -0.55 0.58 0.17 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.18 330 1284
100 -1.45 1.38 0.40 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.21 311 1247
 
Jerry has a video where he shoots and hits a balloon on his 2nd or 3rd shot with a S&W Bodyguard .380 at a distance of 214 yds, straight out of the box.

Doubt many of us (any of us?) could possibly do the same. So saying that a Bodyguard is effective at 200+ yds is probably not really accurate.

It is fun to watch though.
 
Wont be many “small” handguns that can penetrate 12” of gel at 100 yds. Would expect it to be magnums only.
 
I shot a bit of IHMSA with a .44 Magnum.
The 100 meter pig was not a bit safe.
A man at the 200 meter ram line had better stay in his foxhole.
 
The 357 Sig in whatever size pistol is probably the best candidate. I have shot my Sig P239 at long range, and it did pretty well. I have a G33, but never tried it at longer ranges.
 
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