What's the real deal with carrying in a post office

D

Dust_Devil

New member
I have read conflicting articles and interpretations of the law regarding carrying a weapon inside a post office where some say it is straight up illegal in any fashion as it is a federal office and some say as long as you can legally carry then it is okay. I noticed in some police stations, you can declare your weapon at the front desk to be held by the police while you are doing your business inside the police station, so does this mean that any federal building that where it is illegal to have firearms must have a method of temporarily holding your weapon so you can go about your business inside the building?

Anyone ever went into a post office while carring concealed? Did you go in knowing of the laws and weren't about to run back to your vehicle or go back home because you had a firearm or have you just went into a post office at the spare of the moment and never even thought of the firearm under your shirt was illegal inside the post office you were in?
 
I know where I am (south Louisiana) there was abit of back and forth over if it was legal or not to carry in the post office. I never carried in there just to err on the side of caution. Then last week I noticed a sign in a not so obvious place that stated it was illegal to carry a firearm into the post office.

I'm not sure how that jives with state law because it doesn't list the post office as a place off limits to carry. It's just another reason I try to avoid the post office like the plague.
 
Weeellllllll..... I've wondered about this myself. There seems to be a couple of opinions on that.

The LAW, In US Code (USC) Title 18, Section 930, says:

"(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both."

Subsection (d):
"(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes."

The question is, does a State issued concealed weapons permit consititute "other lawful purposes."

Now, the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) says, in Part 232.1, paragraph (L):
"Weapons and explosives. No person while on postal property may
carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either
openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for
official purposes."

"Official", rather than "lawful" purposes. Then again, further down Part 232.1 in paragraph (P) (2) we have:
"Whoever shall be found guilty of violating the rules and
regulations in this section while on property under the charge and
control of the Postal Service is subject to fine of not more than $50 or
imprisonment of not more than 30 days, or both. Nothing contained in
these rules and regulations shall be construed to abrogate any other
Federal laws or regulations of any State and local laws and regulations
applicable to any area in which the property is situated."

The CFR is a compilation or regulations based on the the USC, which is the law. Laws are enacted by Congress, regulations are written by various federal departments to implement the laws. BOTH are legally enforceable. When there is a difference, law trumps regulation.

To the best of my knowledge, this has not been settled by a court, which is the only way to get an "official" determination.

I don't particularly want to be the test case so I lock mine in the truck.
 
This is one of those "eternal questions" that seem to come up from time to time, kinda like weeds in the lawn.
I don't carry anymore. When I did though, I carried anyplace there wasn't a metal detector and the P.O. hasn't installed them yet. If your concealed weapon is truly concealed and there is no other way to detect it-- who's to know? Is there a guard in the lobby looking for guns? If not, who cares? We can worry ourselves into an early grave over all the dire things that might happen: Asteroids crashing into the middle of the dinner table, etc., but if it isn't likely to happen why be more paranoid than you already are?
We spend entirely too much of our lives worrying about the reaction Big Brother might have if we do something he doesn't like. If any of us has half the guts of a sea cucumber we'd do whatever we damned well want that wasn't really hurting anybody else. Instead, we're just a different breed of sheep-- ones with horns, though we try to hide 'em. We're getting good at hiding them too-- we just stick our heads up our a$$e$.
 
+1 Oldphart

As I understand it, State law in Colorado prohibits the carrying of a concealed weapon into any State or Federal building where, among other things, there is a metal detection or door security. Where there isn't such security, I carry just like anyplace else. But I also carry other places I'm not supposed to as well....

I figure that the only way anyone will learn is if I'm forced to draw to combat a deadly assault, in which case I would be glad to have the firearm.

If you want to be in strict absolutly not breaking the law compliance, then leave your gun outside the post office, restaurants that serve alcohol, off school property (ever drive onto a college or school parking lot in the possession of a gun?), etc.

Gun free zones are really just zones for criminals to operate without fear of robbing a gun-toting citizen and I won't be one of those sheep!
 
I had to take off to pick up my daughter at school. I added the last couple lines to my last post after I got back.
But on that same issue: I rolled up in the parking lot at the school and realized I had a rifle in the trunk. No one else realized it, cause it was out of sight. Had Ginny Burdick (our local version of Sarah Brady) been there and forced some sort of search of my vehicle, I'd have been in trouble. On the other hand, if a terrorist of any sort had chosen that time and place to make his stand I'd have a chance of being a great hero. Both of those scenarios are somewhere near the outside limits of possibility though, so I wasn't terribly worried about either one.
I've seen comments on this board and others that make fun of the 'sheeple' who are more concerned with their homes, boats, jobs, etc., than their freedom. Yet when it comes to carrying in a Post Office some of us dutifully place our protection in the trunk of the car and join the flock. What's really intersting is that those who poke fun at the 'sheeple' are, in many cases, the same ones who voluntarily disarm themselves with a heartfelt "Baaaa" and hide their horns lest anyone think harshly of them.
Patrick Henry would throw up!
 
I had to take off to pick up my daughter at school. I added the last couple lines to my last post after I got back.
But on that same issue: I rolled up in the parking lot at the school and realized I had a rifle in the trunk. No one else realized it, cause it was out of sight. Had Ginny Burdick (our local version of Sarah Brady) been there and forced some sort of search of my vehicle, I'd have been in trouble. On the other hand, if a terrorist of any sort had chosen that time and place to make his stand I'd have a chance of being a great hero. Both of those scenarios are somewhere near the outside limits of possibility though, so I wasn't terribly worried about either one.
I've seen comments on this board and others that make fun of the 'sheeple' who are more concerned with their homes, boats, jobs, etc., than their freedom. Yet when it comes to carrying in a Post Office some of us dutifully place our protection in the trunk of the car and join the flock. What's really intersting is that those who poke fun at the 'sheeple' are, in many cases, the same ones who voluntarily disarm themselves with a heartfelt "Baaaa" and hide their horns lest anyone think harshly of them.
Patrick Henry would throw up!
Click to expand...

A very profound observation, and one I agree with wholeheartedly. Our society has been encouraged to discard any sort of aggressive behavior. Aggressive is bad, they say. Regardless of who is the object of the aggression, be it criminals, terrorists, or other thugs, we are taught to turn tail and run, and to feel ashamed of any will toward self-sufficiency we may have.

For my part, I open carry often. Once or twice, I must admit, even I have left it in the car--most recently on a trip to a grocery store. My reason: I wasn't sure if the people there would like it. Now, after reading your post, it brought this to light, and made me realize just how far I strayed, even if only once or twice, from my preaching in my practice.

No more. From now on, I will do what ought to be done, rather than what self-doubting cowards--spurred by a public opinion that is in turn created by the media--advise.
 
http://www.usps.com/cpim/ftp/posters/pos7clr.pdf

Weapons and Explosives
No person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.

defining official purposes would be the key.......

http://www.usps.com/cpim/ftp/posters/pos158/welcome.htm

this seems to be good stuff

http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/rtc-usps.html

The author has a simple four question test..........cant cut and paste from there so youll have to click and read :eek:

d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to?
(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

However stuff changes over time.......or the laws in your state change sometimes.....so remember to check state laws !
 
In the state of south dakota at least the only limitations on carry (on a state level) are no carry in a county court house (and thus the sherrifs office) no carry on the premisis of a school or in a facility that generates more than 50% of its income from the sale of alcahol. Plus ive checked and there is no sign in our PO stating no carry

SW
 
Eghad, no point in checking state laws, the Post Office is a federal facility. The USC and CFR I listed earlier is the applicable law.

Oldphart, I "join the sheeple" because I leave my pistol in the truck when I go into the post office? Sheesh. I choose to go armed as an insurance policy. In all likelihood, I will never need it. In my calculation, the 10 or 15 minutes without a gun on me is less of a risk than someone noticing I have one in the post office and losing my permit, my gun, some money, and perhaps my freedom. Yes, I know, concealed means concealed. And illegal means illegal. Or in this particular case, legally gray anyway.:rolleyes: Same as I tell my kids, you can break any rule or law you like but that does have consequences and don't be surprised if you have to pay them. If the game is worth the candle to you, that's your decision.

Schools are a different matter. In Michigan anyway, the parking lot doesn't count. Ditto for most of the prohibited carry places.
 
You know our country and thus

'our government' has become this big monster that is mainly concerned with protecting itself. since we know the real reason for the 2nd Ammendment is so that 'the people' if need be can rise up and overthrow the government... how in the world can one of the questions on an FFL form be about if you are a member of a group that supports the violant overthrow of the government? That question in itself seems unconstitutional?

don't get me wrong... I'm a good american and even strive at times to be a 'sheeple' but this just seems as dumb as the post office/ federal building laws.. the law only serves to allow LEO to charge you with one more crime if you decide to go postal.

Oh and has been probably already said, the real deal is if they catch you...you and your lawyer will be having to explain to a judge in a day or two about how you were there 'lawfully'.
 
Eghad, no point in checking state laws, the Post Office is a federal facility. The USC and CFR I listed earlier is the applicable law.
Click to expand...

from the rulebook as you say

Subsection (a) shall not apply to

(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

I realize that sometimes exceptions are a "defense" to the law and do not preclude arrest nor prosecution.

No. 3 clearly states the lawful carrying of firearms. If you have a CCW and your state has no prohibition against carrying in a postal facility that is a lawful purpose to me. You have a CCL to provide for your lawful defense and the lawfuld defense of others. The state has placed confidence in you to lawfully carry your weapon on your person.

I can carry a rifle into the post office to mail it for repairs so we know that is a lawful purpose

I am not in the Post Office to commit a crime.
I am engaged in a lawful purpose with a permit issued by a governmental unit.

I am not so sure its not the law that is the problem but the phsychology and pettiness of bureacrats in the USPS.
 
Eghad, I agree with you. My point is, to the best of my knowledge, NO states have prohibitions specific to post offices because they are federal, not state, entities. Obviously, generic state and local laws apply to the post office.

And I agree with you the carrying with a permit consititutes "other lawful purpose". My point is, from everything I have seen, the USPS does NOT consider this to be the case. As far as I know, this hasn't been settled in court and, as I said, I don't care to be the test case. YMMV
 
Somewhere on TFL or THR is a member who says he's a federal prosecutor. I will see if I can get him to look at this thread.
 
Sheesh!

For some odd reason my wife always announces her intention to go to the bathroom.

Don't ask, don't tell. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
I have seen this debate many times, and have read all the relevent information.

My conclusion is that it is open to interpretation, so there is a risk if you do it. It has not been decided by case law, and you might find yourself being the test case if you aren't careful.


All the logical arguments in the world aren't going stop a DA with too much time on his hands. And since there is no precedant, he might not be "wrong".
 
The instructor in my CHL class, Texas, was one of the legislators that got CHL legalized in my state. He told me that you CAN carry in a Post Office. He also mentioned that signs that say, "firearms are not permitted"-old sign, have been replaced with a sign that says, "unlicensed carrying of firearms not permitted" and that the old sign doesn't keep you from legally carrying in a post office. In addition, if you see a sign saying you can't carry and it is letters stuck to glass that that sign holds no legal grounds.
 
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