What's The Point Behind This Stance?

S

Single Six

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No, I don't mean that rhetorically. For the past few years I've noticed photos in many of the gun mags of people using this odd stance that I just don't understand. Since I don't know how to post pics, I'll describe it: The shooter is either drawing, or has already drawn, his sidearm. His other arm is held out in front of him parallel to the ground, elbow bent, with the hand flat against the side of his head. I also see knife guys like Michael Janich using this same positioning. Can someone please explain the purpose of this peculiar-looking stance to me, and also: How many of you guys use it yourselves?
 
Elbow out forward, arm bent, hand against head sounds like a blocking position for an incoming punch. Without knowing the context of the stance the OP saw, I'd guess it might have been from a discussion of drawing while fending off an attack.

I've read some instructors' advice about keeping the support hand against the stomach, during the draw, to keep it out of the path of the muzzle until the gun is pushed forward by the strong hand, but I haven't read about the pose described by the OP.

I have used that position to pass a fist by my face, though.
 
The position you described is classic defense posturing to fend off the hostile from making a grab for the gun.

If one is going to shoot with one hand, the other hand is placed upon the chest to keep it out of the way so the shooter does not inadvertently shoot himself in the non-shooting hand.
 
Maybe something like the guy facing us in the photo below?

self-defense-and-the-law.jpg
 
Actually, in all of the pics I've seen of people using this pose, nowhere in the the article {or the caption} was an explanation of it offered. In The Country: No can do; like I said, I've seen this in magazines, not on the computer, and even if I could find it on the web, I'm a barely-functional illiterate when it comes to computers. The posting pics thing is beyond me. :o Mleake and 45Gunner: I think you both just answered my question. Thanks!
 
Mudinyeri: Yes, very similar, except the non-shooting hand was higher up, very close to or even touching the side of the shooter's head.
 
The picture Mudinyeri posted looks like it should be an "after" shot; the guy with the pipe is holding it right-handed, so in his current position he would probably have just swung and missed.

The shooter's arm would probably be broken if he'd actually blocked in that position. Not to mention, his arm is below his head, so he'd have probably been hit in the head, too.

To deflect that pipe, one would want to meet it with the arm up but retreating, rotating inward at contact, all while bending the knees and ducking the body; this would pass the pipe safely over the head while taking minimal impact to the arm. (A parry, rather than a block, and yes it works.... if you practice a whole lot.)

Note: body movement is critical. If the deflection itself doesn't work, but your head is several inches or a foot lower, the pipe might miss anyway. NEVER count on a block or parry to work, on its own.
 
"What's The Point Behind This Stance?"

It is a default position intended for protecting the head from incoming blows.
 
Since we are all taught to use 2-hands (which in this picture would be a bad idea), the weak hand held high and out-of-the-way is probably a technique taught when being forced by the picture's circumstance to use only one hand. In other words the shooter is conditioned when holding the pistol back against his body and out of club-reach to keep the supporting hand from attempting to grab the gun. Keeping that arm against the chest serves the same purpose.

I'd also comment that there are too many firearms "experts" out there trying to make a name for themselves by inventing new ways to position their hands and naming their new techniques after themselves. I can think of a couple experts who have carried this principle to an extreme (e.g. the Ayoob Method, the Taylor Method, etc).

I am greatly amused when I see Larry Vickers and his minions on the History Channel's Tactical Arms drawing their handguns, indexing them against their chests, then going into a firing position, firing, then re-indexing, and holstering. Too much hoopla for such a simple action. :rolleyes:
 
Kevin: That indexing-on-the-chest thing is something else I've noticed, and I completely agree..it does seem superfluous {my big vocabulary word for the day}.
 
Yes, the indexing would be superfluous because it’s better to rotate your body clockwise or counter-clockwise, dependent upon your handedness, in the azimuth whilst you surreptitiously acquire manual possession of your defensive device and elevate it into the correct operational position.

Then blow him the hell away.

This is known as the Clay Technique. :mad:
 
The guy with the pipe should already have a couple bullets in him. He's about two steps too close.

I appreciate the importance of protecting your head. But taking a big step backwards could achieve the same goal.

A note to people swinging pipes. people tend to underestimate distances. don't try to hit with the end of the pipe. hit about a third of the way from the end. Or use a gun:D
 
I appreciate the importance of protecting your head. But taking a big step backwards could achieve the same goal.
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Stepping backward was always a no no unless you were absolutely sure of your footing. Stepping on something or tripping on something in a fight situation is the first sign that you are in deep doo doo. Raising your hand and arm might get it broke or cut but you keep your balance and can continue to fight with the other hand whether it's club, blade or gun....or spray can of your favorite deodorant, mace, spray, etc.

Shuffle to the side if you must, turn and run if you can, dance a jig if it will help but try not to step backwards.
 
re: The Chest Indexing Thingie

The guy with the pipe should already have a couple bullets in him. He's about two steps too close.
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Exactly. I "believe" that the idea behind the index maneuver I mentioned earlier is meant to be a conditioned response whenever you pull your weapon. Am guessing it was designed to overcome someone who has gotten too close and would grab your weapon if you drew and extended it in the classic Weaver/Isosceles stance.

Important Rule to Remember: Don't let the bad guy get that close in the first place.
 
Backing Up May or May Not Be a Good Tactic

Stepping backward was always a no no unless you were absolutely sure of your footing. Stepping on something or tripping on something in a fight situation is the first sign that you are in deep doo doo.
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Yes.

Real world example: I went to a unfamiliar house on a call and upon walking up to it, met a BIG Rottweiler who was standing on its hind legs leaning on a bush, just like a person would lean on a fence. We were both surprised to see each other. I stopped moving forward. The dog barked once, dropped back to the ground, and started towards me. I started backing up and bumped into a garage wall, losing my balance and falling onto my backside. The dog continued towards me barking. I had nowhere to go. I yelled for my partner who was out-of-sight that I needed help, while drawing my weapon with my strong hand and my OC w/ my weak hand. The dog stopped just short of me and continued to bark.

My partner rounded the corner of the house followed by the homeowner. I yelled to the homeowner to get her dog under control or I would kill it. She said it wouldn't hurt me (yeah, right) but made no move to take control of it. I then sprayed it with the OC, and it ran away whimpering like a schoolgirl.
 
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Kevin: I see we're both in the LE biz. :) My agency has never taught us to back up, although maybe they should. I can see where, in some situations, it could be advisable. However, I also agree that it should be done only if you're sure of what's behind you, particularly where footing is concerned. On a side note: Not to hijack my own thread here, but I once had an on-duty occasion to hit a pit bull with OC. It didn't phase him in the least! It occurred to me later that if that dog had been actually biting me or a third party, shooting it might not have been feasible for the danger of bullets hitting the dog's victim. That was the moment I decided to upgrade my options, and bought myself a 6" Cold Steel Voyager. Always have a second or even third option! :cool: Regards, and Stay Safe.
 
In my simple minded view, I presumed it was being used to protect the hand from being shot in a very close, point shoot situation.
 
The gun is being fired from what is called the retention position. It is an intermediate position in the commonly taught 4 or 5 count draw stroke. It is used for engaging a very close in target. I've practiced this drill in classes I've had with Louis Awerbuck and, most recently at Gunsite when I took the 350, Intermediate Handgun, class.

To get an idea how the technique looks in action, see this clip from the movie, Collateral.

Yes, I know it's just a movie. But Tom Cruise trained extensively with a former member of the SAS.
 
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