what's the coolest historical firearms related thing you've done
- Thread starter tahoe2
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Fishing_Cabin
New member
The only thing really interesting I have done in reference to historical firearms was to go hunt down some local information and slightly distant family contacts...
I am distantly related to the Allen Family of Carroll County Va. Being that I am related, and somewhat "known" to the families in the lower part of that county, I tried to search down some of the firearms that were used in, or around the incident in hillsville. Nothing definitive, as most people are still to this day pretty quiet about what they may have, and are skiddish of people wanting to buy something cheap and make money. Beyond a couple of firearms that had family history passing it down, I could find nothing concrete beyond that connecting the firearms to the incident though.
The issue that I run in to with this particular incident is that there are tons of different views that do not agree with each other, or the facts.
I've collected a bit of resources to go back and search through, and have started on a little writing of the incident, though I doubt I would make it public. Its more of a fun thing I do in my spare time.
For those of you that have never heard of the Hillsville Court house shooting incident, here are a couple of links.
http://www.blueridgeinstitute.org/ballads/allensnews.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_Allen
I am distantly related to the Allen Family of Carroll County Va. Being that I am related, and somewhat "known" to the families in the lower part of that county, I tried to search down some of the firearms that were used in, or around the incident in hillsville. Nothing definitive, as most people are still to this day pretty quiet about what they may have, and are skiddish of people wanting to buy something cheap and make money. Beyond a couple of firearms that had family history passing it down, I could find nothing concrete beyond that connecting the firearms to the incident though.
The issue that I run in to with this particular incident is that there are tons of different views that do not agree with each other, or the facts.
I've collected a bit of resources to go back and search through, and have started on a little writing of the incident, though I doubt I would make it public. Its more of a fun thing I do in my spare time.
For those of you that have never heard of the Hillsville Court house shooting incident, here are a couple of links.
http://www.blueridgeinstitute.org/ballads/allensnews.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_Allen
TheNatureBoy
New member
I work about 5 minutes from the Yorktown Battlefields and have driven through them many times over the past 23 years. The one I've visited the most is the site on Surrender Road. It was on that site that General Cornwallis surrendered to General Washington. The information board tells you how the armies were positioned and the order in which the surrender took place. Super neat 
There are also many, many artifacts and markers related to the Civil War in this area as well. Fort Monroe is right down the street from my house. I could go on, and on. This area is loaded with military/firearms related history.
There are also many, many artifacts and markers related to the Civil War in this area as well. Fort Monroe is right down the street from my house. I could go on, and on. This area is loaded with military/firearms related history.
kilimanjaro
New member
The Little Big Horn is a special place for western history, at least to me. In the 1980's, a grass fire burned off most of the ground cover, allowing for a sustained archaeological investigation, the first ever. The results, published in a very well written text, reveal that what we thought we knew about the battle is largely modern conjecture by both whites and Indians, from the large numbers of Indian repeaters, to the disposition of Custer's force.
Say, Mr. Fishing Cabin, my father is from Carroll County, Virginia, and we have a name that is unusual but common around there, as well as in the Blacksburg area. I have heard of the shootout at the courthouse but my father never mentioned it. But then he was born in 1914 after all of that happened. I have read one account that the first person to fire a shot had my lasat name but judging from the Wikipedia article, no one is really sure what happened.
Purchased an old Colt M1911 at an Auction on July 4th. The amazing thing is I am alive to tell about it. About a hundred of us were standing outdoors in a thunder storm. We were ankle deep in water and lightning was flashing all around the auction crowd.
The auctioneer kept barking, and we fools kept bidding.
The auctioneer kept barking, and we fools kept bidding.
Maximus856
New member
Heres some pictures from the Smithsonians 'America at War.' Was very humbling.
Sorry for the not so good quality, its from a phone and through glass.
A Gatling gun. Its pretty similar to the recreation that I got to fire.
And an M1 Garand from the Kent State shootings, still with the FBI evidence tag on it.
And a little o/t picture.. Turned out pretty cool for being from a phone. Hope the Mods don't mind.
Sorry for the not so good quality, its from a phone and through glass.
A Gatling gun. Its pretty similar to the recreation that I got to fire.
And an M1 Garand from the Kent State shootings, still with the FBI evidence tag on it.
And a little o/t picture.. Turned out pretty cool for being from a phone. Hope the Mods don't mind.
BPowderkeg
Moderator
Custer's National Monument; Museum & Cemetary, in BigHorn, Montana
went there in 1959AD with two friends, before a Deer hunt near Buffalo Wyoming, just for the hell of it we threw out about 30 fired 30-30 brass in several areas, i often wonder if anyone ever found them and kept them as souvenirs of the battle, thinking they were true battlefield artifacts.
went there in 1959AD with two friends, before a Deer hunt near Buffalo Wyoming, just for the hell of it we threw out about 30 fired 30-30 brass in several areas, i often wonder if anyone ever found them and kept them as souvenirs of the battle, thinking they were true battlefield artifacts.
Capt. Charlie
Moderator Emeritus
In 1971, I was a Gunner's Mate on a destroyer. Part of my job was to maintain the ship's small arms locker, which housed a number of 1911's.
There were the usual assortment of makes, International Harvester, Colt, etc., and one that stood out from all the others. It was tight, well made and accurate, so I kept that one back for myself
.
At the time, I had no idea what we actually had. If you haven't already guessed, it was a Singer
. Last I heard, they're worth in the neighborhood of $25,000 today.
There were the usual assortment of makes, International Harvester, Colt, etc., and one that stood out from all the others. It was tight, well made and accurate, so I kept that one back for myself
.At the time, I had no idea what we actually had. If you haven't already guessed, it was a Singer
. Last I heard, they're worth in the neighborhood of $25,000 today.MoscowMike
New member
Three sobering things, the first two directly firearm related. On a trip to Vienna, Austria I was able to visit the Heeresgeschichtliches Museum, a fantastic military museum.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heeresgeschichtliches_Museum
There I saw the uniform the Archduke Francis Ferdinand was wearing when he was assasinated, and the pistol he was shot with. Lots of blood flowed from that incident. They also have one of the few Napoleonic Regimental Eagles ever captured, with a musket ball sized hole hole through one wing. If that bird could talk.
Another year I in Normandy was able to visit Mt Ormel, where the Polish 1st Armoured division plugged the gap the German were using to escape from the Falaise pocket. Attacked on all sides by desperate German forces, they took heavy casualties and were unable to maintain their hold on the roads, but clung to the ridge, which they called The Mace.
Standing on the ridge you can see where their artillery observers were able to call in corps artillery on the German concentrations. They have a beautiful view to the west, and were able to inflict terrible punishment. According to the museum exhibits, they were also able to listen to news of the Warsaw uprising, as the Polish Home Army was hammered into submission while the Soviet armies waited across the Vistula. Must have made for some interesting thoughts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill_262
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heeresgeschichtliches_Museum
There I saw the uniform the Archduke Francis Ferdinand was wearing when he was assasinated, and the pistol he was shot with. Lots of blood flowed from that incident. They also have one of the few Napoleonic Regimental Eagles ever captured, with a musket ball sized hole hole through one wing. If that bird could talk.
Another year I in Normandy was able to visit Mt Ormel, where the Polish 1st Armoured division plugged the gap the German were using to escape from the Falaise pocket. Attacked on all sides by desperate German forces, they took heavy casualties and were unable to maintain their hold on the roads, but clung to the ridge, which they called The Mace.
Standing on the ridge you can see where their artillery observers were able to call in corps artillery on the German concentrations. They have a beautiful view to the west, and were able to inflict terrible punishment. According to the museum exhibits, they were also able to listen to news of the Warsaw uprising, as the Polish Home Army was hammered into submission while the Soviet armies waited across the Vistula. Must have made for some interesting thoughts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill_262
I just remembered this. I realize most of you may think anything over .50 caliber is unnecessary but in the event any artillerymen may be readers, two or three years ago (the years fly by) I visited what I think is the last remaining disappearing gun emplacement in the United States.
Battery Chamberlain on the Pacific coast near the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco has a working 6-inch rifle on a disappearing mount. The battery was actually manned all through WWII, although it had different guns at the time. It is a two gun battery but there's only one gun there now. It's only a hundred yards from water's edge. It inself is not particularly historic but as far as I know, it's the best example of seacoast armament from that period of around 1900. The Presideo of San Francisco is just up the hill behind it.
San Francisco is ringed with fortifications but that's the only obvious one and the only one with a gun. New ones were built during WWII there and in serval other places, including Long Island.
On a completely different note, there is the National Headquarters of the Society of the Cincinnati in Washington, D.C., near DuPont Circle. The Society is composed of decendents of officers of the Continental Army. I am not a member but I was fortunate to be invited to a couple of social events there many years ago. They have a large collection of Revolutionary War memorabilia such as flags but I didn't spend any time looking at it.
We are surrounded by history. Watch where you step.
Battery Chamberlain on the Pacific coast near the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco has a working 6-inch rifle on a disappearing mount. The battery was actually manned all through WWII, although it had different guns at the time. It is a two gun battery but there's only one gun there now. It's only a hundred yards from water's edge. It inself is not particularly historic but as far as I know, it's the best example of seacoast armament from that period of around 1900. The Presideo of San Francisco is just up the hill behind it.
San Francisco is ringed with fortifications but that's the only obvious one and the only one with a gun. New ones were built during WWII there and in serval other places, including Long Island.
On a completely different note, there is the National Headquarters of the Society of the Cincinnati in Washington, D.C., near DuPont Circle. The Society is composed of decendents of officers of the Continental Army. I am not a member but I was fortunate to be invited to a couple of social events there many years ago. They have a large collection of Revolutionary War memorabilia such as flags but I didn't spend any time looking at it.
We are surrounded by history. Watch where you step.
BPowderkeg
Moderator
does this count ? i was in the Mountain Man segment of the mini-series "Centennial", filmed by a lake near Estes Park Colorado, Bob Conrad used my flint lock Hawken rifle to shoot the tin cup off his half breed son's head i asked him to sign my rifle and he refused, Bob was drunk the entire filming, he was a smug a-whole, Barbara Carrera was a total B-itch, the only one who was decent to talk with was Richard Chamberlain, we were on set for 6 days for a five minute segment in the film.
Master Blaster 2
Moderator
I was stationed at Rock Island Arsenal after the Vietnam War. The indeed do have an outstanding arms museum. About every firearm made is displayed. They have a lot more in vaults too not displayed due to room.
Discribe well on this blog with pictures:
"The museum has a display case that runs floor-to-ceiling along two walls, and is filled with firearms from flintlocks to, seemingly, the 1970′s or so (not a whole lot in evidence of truly modern firearms). Included are the standards – M-16s, M-1 Garands, AK-47s and so on – as well as some rare and sometimes bizarre one-offs, including several versions of the “SPIW,” numerous versions of the M-79 grenade launcher (including versions with magazines or clips with multiple rounds), and a range of one-offs and experimentals."
http://up-ship.com/blog/?m=200810&paged=2
http://riamwr.com/museum.htm
One more reALLY NICE arms display is the TEXAS RANGER MUSEUM ion Waco TX. Have stoped there several times.
http://www.texasranger.org/
Discribe well on this blog with pictures:
"The museum has a display case that runs floor-to-ceiling along two walls, and is filled with firearms from flintlocks to, seemingly, the 1970′s or so (not a whole lot in evidence of truly modern firearms). Included are the standards – M-16s, M-1 Garands, AK-47s and so on – as well as some rare and sometimes bizarre one-offs, including several versions of the “SPIW,” numerous versions of the M-79 grenade launcher (including versions with magazines or clips with multiple rounds), and a range of one-offs and experimentals."
http://up-ship.com/blog/?m=200810&paged=2
http://riamwr.com/museum.htm
One more reALLY NICE arms display is the TEXAS RANGER MUSEUM ion Waco TX. Have stoped there several times.
http://www.texasranger.org/
Two really neat places come to mind:
One was Ft. De Soto at the entrance to Tampa Bay.
The coastal defense fort still stands (or did in the 70s), and a huge gun (at least 12"), made at Watervliet (I think) was still in an emplacement. If you used a little imagination, you could almost hear the deafening roar of that old 1890s breechloader as it sent a projectile and recoiled on its carriage at the same time.
The other was the U.S. Army installation in Columbus, New Mexico. Only the foundations still remain (or did in '89), but, like Ft. De Soto, if you used your imagination, you could almost hear the shouting and yelling resulting from all the confusion that ensued when Villa crossed the border and raided the place. That initial impression of mine was later reinforced when I read accounts of the poorly trained machine gun crews and their troubles with the Benet-Mercie Hotchkiss guns.
One was Ft. De Soto at the entrance to Tampa Bay.
The coastal defense fort still stands (or did in the 70s), and a huge gun (at least 12"), made at Watervliet (I think) was still in an emplacement. If you used a little imagination, you could almost hear the deafening roar of that old 1890s breechloader as it sent a projectile and recoiled on its carriage at the same time.
The other was the U.S. Army installation in Columbus, New Mexico. Only the foundations still remain (or did in '89), but, like Ft. De Soto, if you used your imagination, you could almost hear the shouting and yelling resulting from all the confusion that ensued when Villa crossed the border and raided the place. That initial impression of mine was later reinforced when I read accounts of the poorly trained machine gun crews and their troubles with the Benet-Mercie Hotchkiss guns.
Master Blaster 2
Moderator
thanks gyvel..looked it up Neat history. regretfull the only i will go there in on the web...
http://www.fortdesoto.com/
http://www.fortdesoto.com/
Many of these old forts have good views on Bing. San Franciso harbor is ringed with fortifications, many on the north side of the Golden Gate on the ocean. Some were only built during WWII. If you go, be sure to wear some flowers in your hair.
There are lots of forts along the English coast and along the Thames, if you like forts as much as I do, although my attention span will limit me to about fifteen minutes at most. One of the most famous is Dover Castle and it is surrounded by later fortifications, mostly overgrown. There are places in the Netherlands that have impressive (from the air, in photographs) forts, also now mostly overgrown. There are others along the Baltic in Finland. The Kremlin is worth a glance and so is St. Petersburg. Don't miss Ft. McHenry on your world tour.
There are lots of forts along the English coast and along the Thames, if you like forts as much as I do, although my attention span will limit me to about fifteen minutes at most. One of the most famous is Dover Castle and it is surrounded by later fortifications, mostly overgrown. There are places in the Netherlands that have impressive (from the air, in photographs) forts, also now mostly overgrown. There are others along the Baltic in Finland. The Kremlin is worth a glance and so is St. Petersburg. Don't miss Ft. McHenry on your world tour.
Wow, masterblaster! That photo takes me back about 35 years or so.
I just took a tour through the website and learned a lot of things I didn't know about Ft. De Soto. I can remember studying those guns and poking around the fort back in the 70s. I'm glad to see they have taken an interest in it.
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Fishing_Cabin
New member
BlueTrain said:
Bluetrain,
It is true, that even today, all these years later, no one knows for sure who fired the first shot. There are differing opinions on what lead up to, and happened in the shooting.
I have heard that it may have been 1 of 5 different people that fired the first shot.
1. Dexter Goad, Clerk of Court. - He admitted in a later investigation of firing at Floyd Allen around the moment that all the shots started but said he did not shoot first.
2. Floyd Allen, defendent. - Many feel that when Floyd stood up, and said something like, "Gentlemen, I aint a goin'..." and reached in to his coat for something. Some say he reached for a revolver that he carried to court, others say he reached for a written statement. Who knows. Floyd admitted to returning fire once he was shot and fell upon one of his lawyers, David Bolen I believe, who made a noted comment similar too, "Floyd they are goin' to kill me a' shooting at you."
3. Claude Allen, family member. - Floyd's lawyer, David Bolen, stated in the second trial that he saw Claude fire what he thinks was the first shot. Claude did admit to firing in the court room, but not the first shot.
4. Sheriff Webb, Sheriff, -Webb, which is a long shot, but some hearsay has stated he fired the first shot, or at least pulled his pistol first. Sheriff Webb had not originally planned to be armed, but on the way to court some folks urged him to, and reluctantly he borrowed a Colt semi-automatic pistol. There was a witness I believe though that said afterwards that the Sheriff did not have a firearm around him as a he lay dead.
5. (cant remember his first name) Quesnberry. - Deputy Clerk, He confessed on his deathbed that he was the one, who fired the first shot, and was witnessed by 2 others. Many have discounted this confession, and it has little interest.