What's the best caliber for HD?
- Thread starter mssurrey
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Firepower!, Wikipedia, while often fun and interesting, isn't always accurate. This is because nearly anyone can create an account, log on, and make changes to their entries. I assure you that there is no such cartridge as .357 Remington Magnum as Remington was not the first company to make ammunition nor firearms in this caliber. I suspect that whoever entered .357 Remington Magnum into that article had it mixed up with either .357 Remington Maximum or .44 Remington Magnum.
Webleymkv said:
Actually you do not need an account to edit the content of the articles, but if you want your changes to stay you have to provide a logical, factual explanation of why you made the changes that you did.
For example when I deleted .357 'Remington' Magnum from the synonyms entries, I explained that there was no such thing.
Depends. I've always thought the problem was .357 has the potential for being a great caliber, with one, small change:
.375".
Seems all the custom hand cannon guys end up with the .375, in one form or another, with about 300 grain bullets. From hunting Gary Reeder's hunting experience, that combination will do in just about anything on the planet.
I know guys that shot plates with it, but, it never caught on, really. Combination of flat shooting, relatively little recoil, and, a ton of killing power. I suspect it would be enough, and, a handy caliber...
.375".
Seems all the custom hand cannon guys end up with the .375, in one form or another, with about 300 grain bullets. From hunting Gary Reeder's hunting experience, that combination will do in just about anything on the planet.
I know guys that shot plates with it, but, it never caught on, really. Combination of flat shooting, relatively little recoil, and, a ton of killing power. I suspect it would be enough, and, a handy caliber...
As you have noticed, there are endless opinions when it comes to the "best" home defense...... First, it's what you are comfortable with, and will be able to practice with and shoot well. That said, if considering that "home defense' might well occur in the middle of the night, muzzle flash and sound may well be significant elements to consider. My personal preferences: I love the 9mm in a semi-auto for its ease of accurate shooting and great repeat shot placement... However, for my "home defense", I keep a S&W K-frame revolver loaded with Speer Gold Dot 38 special hollow points. I only have to pull the trigger (never a fear of jams), and I can fire 6 rounds nearly as quick as a semi-auto. The arguments against larger calibers for hd are primarily that of muzzle blast and sound....Hard to deliver a good follow shot when you are both deaf and blind.....That's my opinion....Good luck in your quest for what's right for you.
....Good luck in your quest for what's right for you.Yankee Traveler
New member
.45 acp for me.
9mm for the wife (soon).
Combination Hagan Das coffee and chocolate for the frappe...
9mm for the wife (soon).
Combination Hagan Das coffee and chocolate for the frappe...
I think a lot of folks have missed the boat entirely here.
The question was one of an excellent home defense weapon. This poses some challenges, such as a weapon that can be used rapidly in close quarters and one what reduces the risk of wall penetration.
FIrst, nothing I know of that will stop a human being with any reliability will not pass through the wall of a residential building. Thus we are left with limiting any damage done after wall penetration.
The 12/20 gauge shotguns are certainly viable as defensive arms but are clumsy, especially if you need your off hand for a phone, flashlight or to urge children towards safety.
With the exception of small bore magnums, the use of a magnum round inside the home can only be justified if you live in a rural setting with no children.
The same can be said for the higher velocity autoloader rounds like the 9mm, 10mm, .357 Sig et all.
That narrows the field to some well-worn and "unexciting" calibers. .38 Special, .44 Special, .45 ACP, .45 Colt. We might even include the .380 ACP as the "floor" but I would be hesitant to call it even adequate to the task.
And before someone mentions it, I don't consider frangible ammo of any type or specialty ammo like Glaser and similar shot-load designs to be reliable for defense.
Apartment dwellers need to be cautious about which direction is "safe" to fire towards. In some cases, almost no direction can be considered safe (just that some may be less risky than others).
I live alone in a townhome. That means no common "living area" walls. Neighboring homes are within 3-5m of open space. So I use a .38 Special with +P ammo or a .45ACP revolver loaded with 255gr LSWC at 750 fps.
Let us also remember that the goal is to prevent any harm to the family members. It does us no good to "double tap" an intruder only to find that a miss has killed a child or house guest. Our goal is to stop or deter the intruder, not kill him. If the intruder dies as a result of his injuries, even if it's a case of I'm alive and he's dead and that's the way it should be. that is a byproduct of self-defense, not the ultimate goal
The question was one of an excellent home defense weapon. This poses some challenges, such as a weapon that can be used rapidly in close quarters and one what reduces the risk of wall penetration.
FIrst, nothing I know of that will stop a human being with any reliability will not pass through the wall of a residential building. Thus we are left with limiting any damage done after wall penetration.
The 12/20 gauge shotguns are certainly viable as defensive arms but are clumsy, especially if you need your off hand for a phone, flashlight or to urge children towards safety.
With the exception of small bore magnums, the use of a magnum round inside the home can only be justified if you live in a rural setting with no children.
The same can be said for the higher velocity autoloader rounds like the 9mm, 10mm, .357 Sig et all.
That narrows the field to some well-worn and "unexciting" calibers. .38 Special, .44 Special, .45 ACP, .45 Colt. We might even include the .380 ACP as the "floor" but I would be hesitant to call it even adequate to the task.
And before someone mentions it, I don't consider frangible ammo of any type or specialty ammo like Glaser and similar shot-load designs to be reliable for defense.
Apartment dwellers need to be cautious about which direction is "safe" to fire towards. In some cases, almost no direction can be considered safe (just that some may be less risky than others).
I live alone in a townhome. That means no common "living area" walls. Neighboring homes are within 3-5m of open space. So I use a .38 Special with +P ammo or a .45ACP revolver loaded with 255gr LSWC at 750 fps.
Let us also remember that the goal is to prevent any harm to the family members. It does us no good to "double tap" an intruder only to find that a miss has killed a child or house guest. Our goal is to stop or deter the intruder, not kill him. If the intruder dies as a result of his injuries, even if it's a case of I'm alive and he's dead and that's the way it should be. that is a byproduct of self-defense, not the ultimate goal
BillCA said:
I'm loath to tell anyone what handgun to use for self defense, I'm a firm believer in the what is 'best' for an individual is the one they are most familiar with and shoot the best.
However, for those with limited experience and/or don't have the time, or inclination to practice very often, a good revolver may very well be the best choice. It might in fact be one of the best choices for anyone.
Think about it, you wake up in the middle of the night and are confronted with the fear and stress of an intruder. A trusty revolver in one of the calibers BillCA suggested would be hard to beat. Simplicity, reliability and good power.
Genepix said:
Thats another great point in the revolvers favor, I personally feel that semi autos are more reliable than they have ever been, but no matter what anyone says they are still more likely to malfunction than a revolver.
Again if you are well practiced with your Glock, 1911, or whatever, I'm not telling anyone what to use for HD, I'm only saying that a revolver has a lot of points in its favor.
One more time: It's not caliber, it's what you load, or use in that caliber. You can buy ammo with Speer gold dots that are .429", going nearly 1600 fps, and still get only 12" OF PENETRATION.
While there is not a magic bullet, there is a tremendous amount of room over common SD offerings to achieve more penetration, and, more energy.
http://www.brassfetcher.com/180grHorn44mag.html
Combine that with a variety of back stops, and situations, and you have to tailor the combination to your situation.
Also, in the quest for rubber bullet solutions, we forget that if you need to use a firearm, the quicker it stops the threat, the fewer shots you are going to have to fire...
While there is not a magic bullet, there is a tremendous amount of room over common SD offerings to achieve more penetration, and, more energy.
http://www.brassfetcher.com/180grHorn44mag.html
Combine that with a variety of back stops, and situations, and you have to tailor the combination to your situation.
Also, in the quest for rubber bullet solutions, we forget that if you need to use a firearm, the quicker it stops the threat, the fewer shots you are going to have to fire...
Tommy Vercetti
New member
Mohammed Ali said that to Howard Cosell first
even1293 said it pretty well when it comes to your hearing and cartridge selection... Despite my long post about blowing my ears out with larger calibers, when the fight starts, thats the last thing you'll be thinking about. But still, I think 9mm has the best of all worlds (For me) as a HD cartridge. Aside from a Shotgun.
And I dont know what you guys are talking about when you say that 9mm are louder than .45 acp...!!!
Maybe if your shooting some hot 9mm's vs low pressure .45's ?
And I dont know what you guys are talking about when you say that 9mm are louder than .45 acp...!!!
Maybe if your shooting some hot 9mm's vs low pressure .45's ?I wasn't even going to answer this post, but my gosh. Let's get real here. It is wonderful to be able to have your favorite Elephant Poofer by the bead, but consider the penetration you are going to have. Would you want a stray bullet passing through a wall (or a riccochet) and killing one of your kids? How about the neighbors? Yes, there is an excellent chance of a stray bullet going that far and entering their home, even after penetrating your outside wall.
I would suggest a .38 S&W or the 9mm. They will still penetrate inside walls, but are less likely to go through an outside wall. Keep in mind that a wall in your home has 2x4's 16" apart and the void in between is just 1" of sheetrock. A shot gun would be even better, but not with buckshot. How tough do you think these burglers are?
I would suggest a .38 S&W or the 9mm. They will still penetrate inside walls, but are less likely to go through an outside wall. Keep in mind that a wall in your home has 2x4's 16" apart and the void in between is just 1" of sheetrock. A shot gun would be even better, but not with buckshot. How tough do you think these burglers are?
I halfway agree with those who've said whatever you feel most comfortable with; and that it's better to have anything than nothing. However there are a couple of unusual things about home defense that you should give some consideration. First of all, let's forget the home defense terminology. That's not what we mean anyway and we don't want to give any potential juror who may sit in judgement of your actions the totally false idea that you are defending personal property with deadly force; there should be no question but that you are defending life and limb. So let's call it what it darn well better be, and that's a defense of your life and/or your family's life in your home. Now let's assume that any reasonable person (like a juror) would also see your actions as a defense of life and limb. Now that we've set the scene, let's say that in defense of your life, you get off a shot in your home. ve you thought about the fact that it will probably be in a pitch black room in which aiming isn't an option? You will probably have to shoot at what you can hear or feel or sense, because you probably can't see your assailant - at least not very clearly. If your adversary is armed he will probably be shooting at you too if he can. So you want to hit him with shot #1, and you want that hit to stop him. At the very least you want him moving away from you, not toward you, if he can still move at all. You have to be aware though that you may not get off the first shot, or you may miss in the dark if you do, and you may be hit yourself before you can rack a shell into a shotgun or rack a slide on a semi- automatic pistol. All it would take is a broken arm. Your spouse may not be able to handle those guns either. Those are the two big reasons why I prefer to depend on a revolver for defending my life and my familys life in our home. I can shoot it with either hand and so can she. No slides to rack. very little risk of jamming, and it goes bang when the triggers pulled. I personally believe that I have a better chance of putting an assailant down for the count with a 255 grain LSWC 45 Auto Rim than with anything else that both my wife and I can handle.
OrlandoRecon
Inactive
It is almost guaranteed that if any of us here played the part of a burglar/home invader, and heard the rack of a 12 gauge shotgun, we would probably not want any more of that and exit the residence immediately.
Come on fellas, you creep into someones home and you hear that RACK, the only thing to do is leave.... or get blasted to bits.
Burglars don't want confrontations with home owners, (especially shotgun wielding homeowners) they just want empty homes and to take your stuff.
And if someone was entering to assault my wife I would want the last thing for him/them to ever hear to be the RACK of our 870.
Come on fellas, you creep into someones home and you hear that RACK, the only thing to do is leave.... or get blasted to bits.
Burglars don't want confrontations with home owners, (especially shotgun wielding homeowners) they just want empty homes and to take your stuff.
And if someone was entering to assault my wife I would want the last thing for him/them to ever hear to be the RACK of our 870.
skydiver3346
New member
Best personal defense round?
No doubt it would be the .12 GA shotgun with 00 or 000 buckshot.
But with regards to using either a 9mm or .45, I would personally go with the .45 acp round. I hear about folks saying they kick, too much recoil, etc.
But I don't think so myself and I shoot a lot of rounds down range. In fact, the .45acp is a lot of fun to shoot. It is a very accurate after some practice. It will definitely get the job done if you do your part. Also, will give you confidence as a self defense weapon for you and your family. Especially if you use what I use, (.45+P hollow point round). Bad to the bone! I shoot a Wilson Combat CQB and a Colt Gov't model 1911. Both are excellent pistols but certainly not your cheapest price. But remember, you get what you pay for in the long run.
No doubt it would be the .12 GA shotgun with 00 or 000 buckshot.
But with regards to using either a 9mm or .45, I would personally go with the .45 acp round. I hear about folks saying they kick, too much recoil, etc.
But I don't think so myself and I shoot a lot of rounds down range. In fact, the .45acp is a lot of fun to shoot. It is a very accurate after some practice. It will definitely get the job done if you do your part. Also, will give you confidence as a self defense weapon for you and your family. Especially if you use what I use, (.45+P hollow point round). Bad to the bone! I shoot a Wilson Combat CQB and a Colt Gov't model 1911. Both are excellent pistols but certainly not your cheapest price. But remember, you get what you pay for in the long run.