What's so unique about "Scout" Rifles?

D

DougB

New member
I enjoyed the tongue-in-cheek comments about the "Lemming Scout", but that brings up a serious question I've had for awhile...

I guess I wasn't paying much attention when this idea first got propogated, but what is so special about the "scout rifles" that Cooper and others seem to think are so great? I'm not being critical. I'd really like to know.

From what I gather, they are usually in .308 Win. That's versatile and widely available, but doesn't seem particularly great in any other respect. I always think of it as "almost as good as a 30-06, but shorter so it works better semi-auto and lever actions."

I guess the forward mounted scope gives easier access to the action, but I'm not sure what real advantage it gives. It does look odd to me, but that's just personal preference.

Other than that, they just seem like a somewhat shorter, lighter, medium caliber bolt action rifle. I know the Styer has a detachable magazine, and built in bi-pod, but it's awfully expensive. Am I missing something that makes these "scout rifles" such a revolutionary idea?
 
The Scout is the culmination of a group of experienced rifle shooters who sat down and critically looked at each and every aspect of riflecraft and hashed out the best features.
It isn't just a short action with with an EER scope. Even things like the type of sling were debated at length.
Theres nothing "new" in the Scout, its the best features of a lot of rifles brought together in one product.


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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
The Scout Rifle and the Scout Rifle concept are exercises in "rifle synergy".

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

You can have SOME components of a Scout rifle such as a forward scope, short action, three points sling, effective caliber, short barrel and LOP, but if you don't have them ALL working in conjunction with each other, the point is missed and the concept crumbles...

[This message has been edited by DeBee (edited October 31, 1999).]
 
I took the Gunsite #270 General Rifle class back in 92 taught by the Col. himself along with Bill Jeans and Harry Harries.
I used a Ruger 308 with a 2.5x8 Luepold. At the time the "Scout" concept seemed weird to me.
By day 3, I was convinced, those that were shooting scout style rifles were doing better than those of us with coventional rifles. Mind you this was tactical use of the rifle, no benchrest shooting there.
Running....firing at moving targets, shooting from standing,sitting,squatting and prone positions. Targets were engaged as close as 5yds out to 400yds. In 5 days I fired over 1200 live rounds, and dry fired 10 times that amount.
At the end of the course and the dreaded marksmanship qualification( a pretty darn tough, high pressure test) the scout rifle shooting students, by in large, had better scores.
 
As I recall, the good Cunnel gave a long list of criteria for the Scout. The forward scope and light weight were only two of them.

One reason for the scope location was that the reciever could be cut so it would accept stripper clips of ammo, a la most military bolt actions and some autos.

The purpose was to provide an excellent all round rifle that would serve for tactical foot ops, and equally well for recreation and hunting. I'm not so sure that premise is valid, but I do trust the Colonel's judgement.

I do think that that particular combination would make an excellent all round hunting rifle.

Any of the factors dealt with properly in a more usual style rifle would enhance the capabilities of the weapon. The Scout has them all.
 
i personally think the "scout" concept is overrated. i am a hunter first and a target shooter second and can see no real benifit to the "scout" concept for my hunting and shooting practices. i do like the caliber choice though :) a conventional configuration is a more reasonable and cheapeer (cept the savage scout) than any other "scout" configuration.
i personally do not like the steyr scout at all. granted it is not supposed to be a tactical countersniper rifle and the crosshairs cover appox 4mins, it has poor accuracy for a gun of its price. my money would be spent on a robar sq carbine.
just my $.02
let the flamming begin :)

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.308 WIN: The ONLY cartridge you will EVER need!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>it has poor accuracy for a gun of its price.[/quote]
Cartman-
I'll argue the point. The Scout has been proven to be an absolute tackdriver....far more accurate than it needs to be or the conventional reticle will allow. Mine was a subminute shooter with the thinner reticle installed. Rob's was a subminute shooter out of the box.

There are many complaints that might be lodged against the Steyr Scout. Inherent lack of accuracy is not one of them.
Rich
 
I have to agree with Rich. The accuracy of the Steyr Scout Rifle is not lacking. Then again it may be the man behind the gun.
 
i have never personally shot one. i am only going on what i have read.
pardom me for my ignorance :)
i still think it is overrated :)
 
Cartman,

I think the Scout is the best thing since sliced bread, however I don't intend to buy one because the price outweighs the benefits to me and the uses I'd put the rifle to.

If I were a rural cop who was allowed to choose the rifle I carried in my squad car, or lived along the border in an area frequented by drug smugglers, I'd be writing a check as I speak.

As a hunter, I've already tried some of the concepts and found them sound. I mounted a Leupold Scout Scope on my Ruger #1 and found it to be simply a terrific way to go. Snap shoot a deer at ten yards or plunk a caribou at 400 - its works great.



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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
Hi doug,

The best thing about Scouts is that they are an "everything" rifle, within the limits of the cartridge.

I have tested a lot of the specific features and finally decided to get one. (Rem 600 set up by Jim Brockman) The test results are that the rifle is incapable of performing certain tasks well, but all tasks acceptably.

Specifics - (this may be solved on the Steyr) the 2 & 3/4 Leupold SS is not bright enough for last minute deer or lepard. The scope power is not enough for "Beanfield" deer. The cartridge is not flat enough for varmits or <300 yard shots. ON the plus side - it will work for those tasks without going to a totally different system. Not optimum, but close enough. The rest of the story is that it is superb for stalking, portability, real world hits at reasonable ranges and, in .308, has enough smack that anything under 400 lbs or so is in trouble.

I put my money where my mouth was - and am convinced that the concept is sound. It's sort of like sex - :-) - great once you try it!

Giz

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Vote Democratic! 1 Billion Chinese can't be wrong......
 
I believe one of the reasons Steyrs are so blamed $$$ is they don't let 'em out unless they'll drive tacks. At least my li'l 243 full stocked carbine would. ;)

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Be mentally deliberate, but muscularly fast. Aim for just above the belt buckle.
Wyatt Earp
 
I've never even seen a Scout except in pictures, but one question I have is how do the iron sights work? With the scope so low, they can't be used as back-up sights or instead of the scope. I assume you have to take the scope off to use them. Is that correct?

I really like the concept of the scout rifle, but there is no way I could afford one right now. I've seen articles where people have built them from Enfields and such. What do y'all think about that? Also, do you think the bipod is a necessity?

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"God grants liberty only to those who love it, and are always ready to guard and defend it." Daniel Webster

Unless the Lord watches over the city, the watchmen stand guard in vain. Psalm 127:1
 
This is timely for me. I've got a Ruger 77II in .308 and I'm trying to decide whether to give the Scout treatment. I am willing to accept that a forward mounted 2x or 2.5x scope could provide faster target acquisition than a scope of the same power mounted over the receiver, but I really hate to give up the long range capability that a 2-7x or 2.5-8x variable can provide.
So my question is: is the trade-off worth it? After all, the scope mount conversion is expensive. With what I would spend converting my Ruger to a Scout Rifle I could build a "Utility Scout" (Surplus Mauser 98 barreled action, Ashley mount, Ramline stock) and keep the Ruger as is. Hmmmm...maybe I've answered my question.
 
OK MY 2¢...

ANYONE familiar with thier weapon would benefit from a class where 1200 live rounds are fired over 4 days.

But really guys it seems to me the "scout concept" is being shoved down our collective throats to get 10 shot bolt action "non assault" rifles into the marketplace and drive the want for them. Geeze 'scout rifle?" anyone ever heard of a 30-30 with a scope?? Maybe I'm just being cynical here, but the average ARMY carries an automatic rifle that holds a lot more bullets and NO one but snipers carry bolt rifles.

As a "concept" for a limited class of shooting sport the idea may be sound but shucking out $2 k for a bolt rifle that DOES NOT shoot any better than a savage model 116 or winchster model 70 seems ludicrous.

Do you recall the REASON the 7.62x39 class cartridge was DEVELOPED was that german ordinace officers realized very little combat with rifles took place past 300 meters, hence a full sized cartridge was NOT necessary. (our 308 was an answer to that). The Germans design was improved by good Seargent Kalishnikov and we got the BEST dirt eating easy to use auto rifle in the world. IF they were a a little more accurate, a little more "polished" they WOULD NOT be as effective. But hey.. if the object is to whack a man sized moving target at 4-400 meters.. the ultimate SCOUT rifle already exists, its a pre-ban chicom AK with a collometer sight.

the "concept" of training a rifleman to use his arm is far more important than the arm carried... then again a gang of conscripts trained in the use of an automatic rifle is a considerable force for anyone to face .. even a lone rifleman with a "scout rifle"

The "concept" of blowing $2k on a rifle that cannot accept a hi-cap mag or OUT-DO ANYTHING the hunting rifles in my safe can do also seems boggling.. you want a steyr?/ Buy a model M in the caliber you like. You want a tack driving sniper rifle?? Glass bed the winchester, savage, or remmington in your closet. You don't HAVE to spend that kind of money to get MOA at 100 yards.

I like the good colonel.. but the 'fast shooting bolt rifle" concept is pretty darn dated UNLESS his plan is to market us something we already HAVE, a rifle we KNOW how to shoot, reguardless of make, caliber, action, etc.

Of course savage, winchester, remmoington and steyr are ALL making "scout" rifles thanks to the Col. Maybe they should cut him a check.

Off my soapbox and back to the cut throat world of advertising...

Dr.Rob

"why spend 10,000 pieces on a murasama blade when 10,000 pieces will buy 10,000 spears??"

[This message has been edited by Dr.Rob (edited November 09, 1999).]
 
heheh I just read the lemming scout thread.... oh man that was funny. Where can i find a 22 lr stripper clip???

lol the guys at varmint hunter magazine would like it... almost as much as the 600/.17 nitro express round and other silliness.

Dr.Rob
 
Guys,

Scout rifles are a great concept, but we are forgetting that although not technically a Scout rifle in name, the Remington Model 7 in either .308 or it hybrid cousin, the 7mm-08 is a fine rifle. Although diminutive in size and often thought of as a "woman's/kid's" rifle, it is extremely accurate and loads of fun to shoot. For a trip in the outback/heavy brush, say in the Pacific northwewst/Alaska or even open area hunting, the Model 7 is a dandy little friend to have.
 
On the same subject, how does Savage's scout rifle compare to the Steyr? Is the Savage worth the $400-$500 I see it for, seeing as I don't have $2000 to drop on a rifle?

Also, how is Springfield's scout configuration of its M1As (the M1A-A1) as far as a rifle goes, out of curiosity?
 
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