What's so great about Redding dies?

[Hammerhead]

I use a mix for most calibers.

Most sizing dies are Lee because that's what I started with.

Most expanders are Lyman M dies.

Most Seating dies are Redding Pro's.
After watching my Lee 9mm seating die stem tilt sideways a little each time it started to seat a bullet, I switched to Redding pro seating dies. Not because of the micrometer head, that's a convenience, the best part is the precision ground seating stems with the deep recesses that just do a better job of seating bullets straight. That allows for less flare/expansion before seating and improves bullet tension. Instant accuracy improvement over the Lee die.

My crimp dies are Redding profile and taper crimp.

 

[marchboom]

Been loading since the early 70's and just now got a Co-Ax press. Wish I would have gotten it much sooner. Die change out takes a few seconds.

I would get regular dies for handgun calibers as you usually will not be playing around with seating depths. Once you find the correct OAL that's it. You're done. With rifle rounds, however, you will probably be playing with different OALs when you change bullets. Accuracy changes are much more pronounced with a rifle and OAL changes will show that. That's when you need a micrometer head. Makes OAL changes a lot easier. All my rifle seating dies have a micrometer head. Much easier to make .001" changes.

I have all different brands of dies . Really like the Forster and Redding dies, especially Forster. Great machining and finish on both brands. For rifle cases get the sliding sleeve dies. Works better to control runout.

If you plan to get a Dillon press in the future then get the Dillon dies now and be done with it. They are made for a progressive press but will work great in a single stage press.

I understand that money is sometimes tight but never buy cheap. You're just going to buy the better stuff later on in life. Why buy it twice? Remember, only rich people can afford to buy cheap stuff. Good reloading equipment should last your lifetime and then some with proper care. When the cost difference between a cheap die and a "top shelf" die is amortized over your lifetime it only amounts to pennies per month. Life is too short to try to produce high quality ammo with mediocre equipment.

And don't forget to get the short ball handle for the Co-Ax press. Much more convenient.

Good luck.

 

[BigJimP]

Nothing special about Redding Dies.... buy Dillon...

 

[tangolima]

I have only one Redding die set. It is 41 colt, which I rarely use, so it doesn't really count as experience. I suppose it is very well made.

Lee is good value. But Hornady is even better, especially considering their free bullet rebate. I started migrating from Lee to Hornady a few years ago.

-TL

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

 

[Sequins]

Thanks for all the opinions everyone- I know it's hard to come to a gun forum with a "what's the best XYZ" type question and so I appreciate all the thoughts and commentary I'm being exposed to. I think I'm coming down on the Redding dies being worth it, but the last thing giving me pause are the comments regarding "buy Dillon if you're going to get a Dillon machine later".

I do indeed plan to get an RL550C or XL650 at some point in my life, hopefully sooner than later, so should I just be getting Dillon end-of-story? I was reading about the Redding competition pro die sets and they advertise that they are designed for use in a progressive machine but I've never used any die in any machine, much less compared dies in a progressive. Will I regret getting the Redding competition pro dies if I decide to get a Dillon machine later?

I want to reload really high quality magnum pistol rounds and I'm trying to purchase as if the cost doesn't matter and performance is everything, so if the Redding competition pro dies will work in my future Dillon machine I think that's the way I'm going to go.

 

[LeverGunFan]

"...Redding die are pretty much the same as RCBS dies. Not so very long ago, they were the same company. I'm guessing Vista Outdoors didn't want Redding as well as RCBS...

Out of curiosity, when were they the same company? I've purchased Redding (and RCBS) products since the 1980s and I can't recall them ever being the same company.

 

[Reloadron]

Which dies have the best "value"?
Redding Dies
Redding Micrometer Dies
Hornady Dies
Lee Dies
RCBS Dies

I think if you are going to include higher end dies like the Redding Micrometer flavor you should also include the same types of higher end dies from other manufacturers as well but here nor there.

While I really don't think any of the dies mentioned have any bad dies I really don't see a best bang for the buck either. My personal dies consist of a mix of RCBS, Lee, Hornady and a few other manufacturers tossed in. Different dies from different manufacturers offer different features so frequently people buy dies based on the features they like or want. While for example many curse the aluminum Lee Die locking rings with the O ring others praise them for that locking ring. I personally like the Hornady locking rings so actually buy Hornady Locking Rings for use on all of my dies. That just being an example of features.

Over time and years you will likely develop a liking for one manufacturer's dies over another which you will feel fits your personal taste and budget.

Just My Take....
Ron

 

[HiBC]

If you are going to go progressive,Brother has figured out how to use a Ponsess-Warren seater die to advantage on his Dillon 1050.
You load the bullet into the die through a port cut in the side of the die.

 

[BigJimP]

Yes, all standard sized dies will work on a dillon 550 or 650....but the Dillon dies have some desireable features...for ease of cleaning without screwing up the settings, etc.

Don't overthink this though...if you haven't even reloaded a single cartridge yet...pick your press first. FWIW, I think the Dillon 650, with a case feeder and a powder check, is the best press out there ( with a close 2nd going to Hornaday LNL ).

Dillon 550 has some shortcomings in my view...no auto indexing and no room for a powder check.

 

[Sequins]

BigJim, I'm going to be using a Forster Co-Ax single stage press to start and then once I've used that for a while I hope to discover whether I should get a 550 or a 650 through the experience I will have gained. The 650 and the 550 both seem to be great with strengths and weaknesses and I'm sure I'll wind up with one or the other. I'm sure I'll always be glad I have a single stage and the Forster is a pretty clear winner as the "best" single stage press, especially for the calibers I want to load (nothing unusual that won't fit the jaws of the Forster), so I'm holding off on the Dillon until I load with the Forster for a couple months. I love the idea of the floating die and shellplate allowing for perfect alignment and though many don't seem to care I will be loading my pistol ammunition to the finest quality I am able.

That's why I'm so torn up on dies. If I ultimately get into a progressive reloading machine which seems quite likely I want great dies for that purpose, but in the mean time I want great dies for my Forster. Unlike the presses where there is nearly unanimous agreement that Forster is the best single stage and Dillon is where to look for a progressive there is just no consensus on the dies... The best thing people seem to say about the Hornady dies are that they come with free bullets which while a nice bonus doesn't really speak to the quality of the die itself, and in the grand scheme of things a few hundreds bullets is peanuts compared to better quality when I'm 20 years down the road and have loaded hundreds of thousands of rounds. I didn't even include Lyman dies because they've gotten generally bad reviews. The best thing about the Lee dies is that they are cheap and work as advertised and I'll probably get Lee if I don't get Redding, since my question boils down to "does spending more money on pistol dies improve the quality of the pistol ammo". If it does then RCBS and Redding seem like the obvious winners, and I can afford the Redding dies so I'd choose those over the RCBS, but if money doesn't buy performance then I'll just get the cheap and effective Lee dies.

Further complicating things for me is that most people only care about precision in their rifle rounds. Reloadron hinted at this when he called me out for not including the Forster or RCBS rifle micrometer dies in my comparison, but those dies are only for rifles and I can't find a micrometer pistol die besides Redding. That's partially why I made this thread, does no one make precision pistol dies besides Redding because there is low demand or because there's no discernible difference between a "regular" pistol die and a more precise die? If the more expensive die really is better I'm happy to pay the money and I generally believe "you get what you pay for" with tools, but a gold plated hammer isn't any better than any other hammer...

PS: I don't mean to disparage any of the brands or their followers, I have no doubt I could load better than factory with any brand and very good match winning quality ammunition with most of the brands. I want to load the BEST, though. In that pursuit I'm approaching all the brands with a very critical eye.

 

[HiBC]

Don't take this as "Expert last word" Its just another opinion.

I'm not "the bench rest guy" who carefully evaluates to the thousandth how far off the lands the bullet is.More often I load magazine length.
Some folks are that meticulous,and I do not doubt they find improvement.
The micrometer head might be useful for having a repeatable setting for multiple bullets.
I do have some micrometer adjustable dies.I can't say I use the feature to great advantage myself.However,its a package deal. That's how I get the floating sleeve seater.The bullet is not just corked in the top of the brass.It is aligned by a precision sleeve.It can result in straighter,more concentric ammo.
I AM a sleeve advocate more than I am a micrometer advocate.

I don't think folks get obsessive about how many thousandths off the lands they are with handgun ammo. They use calipers and load to functional length.
Generally,magazine length or crimp length.I don't really need a micrometer seating stem to set a crimp.
However! It certainly IS possible to load problematic handgun ammo if your bullets tip a bit. You can see it through the brass,it sometimes won't chamber and it does spoil accuracy. So,once again,its not the micrometer that I find advantage in the competition seater,but the floating sleeve.
I understand Lyman dies have an appearance/finish issue.I think its because they use a less expensive steel and case harden it. Some of those steels are tough to get a pretty tool finish in. But Lyman has an "M" die for the "bell" stage.Instead of a flared bell,it steps up a cylindrical diameter to start your bullet in.

My point,once again,as you learn process,as you learn the "Why" of the expensive dies,buy them for a reason.

I do not regret buying any set of Redding dies I ever bought,even basic 2 die sets.I can tell you in .223,loading 75 gr Hornady match bullets,The RCBS seater will press a ring in the ogive,and the Redding will not. Just a little thing.

I like it that the Forsters have the expander ball higher on the spindle.

But I also have not regretted buying a $30 Lee Challenger die set. I can load that cartridge. It might be for an older "shooter"

And frankly,just because its what the LGS stocked,I have more RCBS than anything else.

I suspect as you go Dillon later,you will set up tool heads for your high volume cartridges. Its efficient.All the dies stay set in a block you load in the press. Get Dillon dies in that moment.Your Co-Ax can have its own set of dies.It has its own efficient way to pop dies in.

If you are going to load volume handgun,lookup the Dillon Square Deal. Its an option for handgun only.

You can buy it set up to run your cartridge.

 

[USSR]

For rifle, without a doubt, the Redding Competition Die Sets. I shot in 1,000 yard F Class competition for 6 years, and almost to a man, everyone on the firing line used these dies. However, since you are talking about handgun rounds, the nod goes to either RCBS or Lyman. RCBS has the hands down best customer support in the industry. I have bought used RCBS equipment that was missing a part, and RCBS sent me the missing part free of charge. Lyman also offers excellent dies, especially when you are using lead bullets as opposed to jacketed bullets.

Don

 

[BBarn]

I would consider the info in posts 31 and 32 above very good advice. Premium dies on a good single stage press will make assembling very good ammunition easier. For high volume using a Dillon, I too would suggest their dies.

I have a couple of single stage presses and a Hornady L-N-L AP progressive press. I've also used a Dillon RL550B a small amount. I find it much easier to make good ammunition on the single stage press. The progressive will churn out the ammo faster, but it's more difficult (if not impossible) to make ammo of the same quality on it. With so much going on at once and less precision in the press itself, it simply not as easy to produce high quality ammo.

I suggest that any “best die” will depend highly on an individual's preferences. I find myself liking different brand dies depending on the particular operation. For bullet seating I generally prefer one brand, yet prefer another brand for crimping.

Which brings up my last point. When loading cartridges with a crimp, I always seat and crimp in separate operations. I even separate those operations when using the progressive. It's certainly possible to combine them and others do so with success, but separating them allows me get to the final results I'm after. However, separating those two steps does require another station on a progressive press (a four station press if combining powder charging and expanding, five stations otherwise). And that doesn't include a station for powder check (if desired).

 

[USSR]

When loading cartridges with a crimp, I always seat and crimp in separate operations.

+1. Especially pistol cartridges. If you're reloading revolver cartridges using lead bullets with a crimp groove and using a light roll crimp, then seating and crimping can be done in one operation.

Don

 

[J.G. Terry]

What makes for lousy dies.

Down in the Skunk Works: Overtime, I have loaded some wildcats and antiques. Those dies are generally RCBS. There are now more available from Lee and Hornady. Most recent dies for an old time caliber came from C&H. Had a problem and called. Dave, the owner, called to help work through the problem. I'll depend CH now as RCBS no longer has this custom die service as in the past. In American somebody would put a micrometer thimble on an egg beater calling it precision. The only really bum dies that came through were Lyman. In that set the sizer had never been finished. Lyman replaced this die quickly. I find my problems with most any die is my fault due to ignorance or setting the die wrong...period.

 

[mikld]

OOPS!

 

[BigJimP]

You should do whatever makes you most comfortable.

I've reloaded for over 50 yrs...some single stages, a few of the early progressives and went with Dillon 650 about 20 yrs ago & Dillon dies. There is a lot to be said about understanding the process of reloading...in great detail ...but in my view, you do not need a single stage press to do that, especially in handgun ammo. If you know you're going to end up with a 550 or 650 down the road, no reason not to go there now.

You can learn to load slowly on a proressive press...and then you'll have it when you want to go higher volume. I agree, I want the best ammo I can produce -- and certainly the safest & most consistent...after all primarily its me - and my grandkids - shooting the ammo I make. I don't want any compromises on my ammo - in components or in my press. That's why the 550 does not meet my standards ( because there is no auto index / no room for a powder check die )/ so the 650 is my press. I don't mean it to sound pompous ...but I can afford to buy whatever press I want...and even if I was to buy a 2nd press for a weekend home, it would be another Dillon 650 with case feeder and powder check die - and Dillon dies.

Dillons customer service is 2nd to noone.../ they produce a very high quality product and they stand behind it ( same thing on their presses ).

I understand precision long range rifle shooting is a different beast...but I am not convinced the Dillon 650 will not compete with the best single stage rounds for rifle as well....but rifle is not my thing for the most part / my hobby these days is handguns ...and I reload and shoot about 30,000 rds a year ...most of it 9mm ...but some in .380, .40S&W, .45 acp, .38 spl, .357 mag and .44 mag as well...( and 12ga, 20ga, 28ga and .410 shotshells ). Even though I'm in my late 60's now...with eyesight and hand issues affecting my handgun shooting, I still enjoy competing weekly against my buddies in tactical shooting matches. Reloading is just part of the hobby for me ...and has been for a long time since I learned how to reload beside my grandfather in the 50's.

It just depends on how you want to get to your end result.

 

[Unclenick]

Sequins,

Do I understand correctly that you are only interested in loading for handguns and not for rifles? Keep in mind that a good over-the-course match rifle and ammo, for all but benchrest competition, will be one that can shoot 0.5 moa. A good over-the-course pistol, for all but single-shot long range bench shooting, will be one that can shoot 4 moa, with a 2 moa one being pretty exceptional.

As a result of the above, a statistical reality you have to contend with is that a lot of the precision in the Co-ax press or in micrometer competition seating dies will only make a clear difference at the rifle level of precision. You will find it almost impossible to distinguish any difference on paper between the ammunition the precision equipment makes and that which Lee's most inexpensive press makes. Perhaps if you fire test groups of 1000 shots you can find a tiny difference in the radial standard deviation but it is tough to do. This is because group standard deviations from independent sources of error add as the square root of the sum of the squares of the contributing error sources as measured in isolation. An improvement in random dispersion that takes a 5/8 inch group down to 1/2 inch, will only improve a 4 inch group by 0.018". So, while you will appreciate the feel of the Forster Co-ax and the finish on Redding dies, you should not expect any measurable improvement in results over getting much less expensive gear for pistol cartridges. For revolver cartridges, I have seen the Redding profile crimp die outperform standard dies by keeping magnum loads from backing out in the cylinder, so there a some special cases here where the generalities don't apply.

Micrometer seating adjustments in handgun cartridges are mainly useful if you switch between bullets frequently and want to be able to use recorded setting numbers to make the change. If you set up a die for one cartridge and leave it alone, then finding the depth without a micrometer is a trivial expense of extra time.

As far as the Dillon presses go, they shine with pistol ammunition because of the volume you can produce with them. People shooting handguns fire much larger numbers of rounds than rifle shooters normally do, excepting full auto rifle and machinegun shooters. The Dillon dies have features that help a progressive press keep going without a hiccup. The sizing dies are all minimum spec dies so you never have a bullet fall into a case mouth due to inadequately resizing a thin walled and springy case (as an R-P .45 Auto case can do after several reloadings in standard sizing dies). They have a spring-loaded decapping pin to more reliably knock primers out. They have a wider mouth radius so the slightly greater play in a progressive press's moving shell holder plate (as compared to a conventional shell holder) doesn't cause a case mouth to crush entering die. If you are going progressive, I would recommend this die set to start and adding specialty dies, like the Redding profile crimp die, only as you find need.

If you are going progressive and only want the single-stage press for learning purposes, I'll suggest saving the Co-ax money until you decide to try rifle loading and just get a small aluminum single stage Lee press. You'll like having it around to perform odd-jobs after you have your Dillon. You can assign it jobs like pre-cleaning decapping for brass or for sizing lead bullets with a Lee sizer, and etc. It'll still be useful for those kinds of things after you get a rifle and a Co-ax press.

 

[The Kingfish]

I use Redding die sets for handgun loading and they're very high quality dies. Their decapping pins are an abomination, they break or bend very easily so I use a Lee universal decapping die for that purpose.

I also use an RCBS seating die for round nose bullets because Redding seating stems seem to be designed for flat tip bullets only, causing an indentation on all the round nose bullets I've tried to load. RCBS provides two different seating stems with their seating die, one for round nose and another for flat point bullets. I think that's a pretty nice touch.

So as much as I love my Redding die sets I can't say that they're perfect.

 

[Troy800]

Thats what i have so they have to be the best. I have the compitition seating die and really like them. I have little experience with other dies so cant offer experienced cmparison.