What's behind the riots in France?

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Dave R

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Sorry to ask a remedial current events question....

I see the riots in France on CNN, and I read about them in the paper, but I have not been able to find a cause behind the riots. Is that because its some politically incorrect thing that the news media can't mention?

Why are folks rioting?
 
We cannot discuss why, because it's not politically correct and the topic will get locked.

I find it amazing considering that:

-we're fight a war on *BEEP* terror
-*BEEP* terrorist groups have infiltrated all over North America
-France has been fighting 2 weeks against *BEEP* mobs, right now as I type this
-*BEEP* terrorists have attacked and killed thousands of US citizens
-*BEEP* terrorists bombs Madrid and London
-Hundreds more examples can be listed

yet as soon as someone says "*BEEP*" or "*BEEP*", the topic is locked. Serious, immediate, and pressing issues and events cannot be discussed at all.

Frankly, I think political correctness has been taken too far. The only topics allowed, it seems, are the endless Bush/republican bashing and defense thereof.
 
I agree Rebar, all those Bush/Clinton bash/defence threads should be locked, too.

Then, maybe someone will create their own forum, "thepoliticsline.com" and the rest of us can carry on discussing zombie hitmen in malls and whether they'd have Glocks, XDs, or 1911s and if an SKS is a suitable defence gun against 'em without fear of stepping into another pissing match about someone's pet politics.
 
i agree with you rebar. "controversial yet true" subjects don't seem allowed anywhere. if that is the case then forums that include general, political etc. type areas should just delete them and stick to what the board is really about.
for me, as soon as the term PC was coined it had already gone to far. :barf:

i am not even talking about this forum, just forums in general.


as far as france, who knows? i figure their problems are my entertainment. lot of our men died for those .......:mad:
 
'political correctness' is a DIRTY, DIRTY, FILTHY word.....so watch yer language around me..I have more class than that...there are only two kinds of words..true or false...
 
This is funny.

But not helpful. I'm gonna get an "F" in current events if someone doesn't explain this....
 
A smaller feels disrespected because they are not accepted by the larger group unless they conform to the larger groups ways

The larger group feels disrespected because the smaller group won't conform to their ways.

Sooner or later someones gonna start throwing something

Insert the names of the applicable group to explain just about every war in history
 
..some claim it's economics, some claim it's defiance of authority, some think it's simple hatred of others....I think it's at least some of all three..I also think it is sheer idiocy as it does no good but accomplishes much evil....how do you better yourself in life by trying to destroy others who are not trying to destroy you in the first place....and I think that the religion of Islam is also behind it as it has the looks of being a pre-determined plan....I think France has lost her love of nationality...and sold out for almost anything else...there have been many vocal people who warned of this thing happening, but those who had the power to prevent it did nothing or refused to believe it in the first place....thats enough for now I think.
 
not sure if this is true, but.....

i think i read that two guys running from the cops were killed in an electric fence or something like that. cops weren't even directly responsible. but certain types don't need a legit reason to riot. we have seen it in our own country.
 
..I know what happened!!!!....:eek: ..the two little creeps who were supposedly being chased(for no reason of course) didn't learn to speak or read French...such as...'DANGER HIGH VOLTAGE-KEEP OUT'.......and ZAAPPPP!!!!!
 
Here's one theory:

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/11/07/D8DNR5GG6.html

"Before it was a gang warfare between different projects. Sarkozy's given us a common target _ the government," said Karim.

"If they fire Sarkozy, we'll head straight to the police station and pop champagne with them," said Bidou, 22, his baseball cap cocked to the side.

Before the riots, police rarely came by, and generally patrolled in cars with windows rolled up, the youths said. They have nicknames _ like "Lucky Luke" and "Cortex" _ for some officers they know.

They complained that police manhandle them during identity card checks, even claiming that some officers plant hashish on them as a pretext for arrests, and that they regularly fire off rubber pellets during sweeps.

"You wear these clothes, with this color skin and you're automatically a target for police," said Ahmed, 18, pointing to his mates in Izod polo shirts, Nike sneakers and San Antonio Spurs T-shirts.

Lots of unemployed, French born youths. That's a bad recipe no matter where you are. I hope these rioters come to their senses and that no one else gets hurt in this affair. It's a shame that even though every urban culture has experienced riots for thousands of years now, we apparently haven't figured out how to prevent them from happening in the first place.

It's a good reminder that self defense is up to individuals, and that relying on Nana-Government to defend the community isn't going to work in every case.
 
Heres one anaylsis

Wake up, Europe, you've a war on your hands

November 6, 2005

BY MARK STEYN SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST

Ever since 9/11, I've been gloomily predicting the European powder keg's about to go up. ''By 2010 we'll be watching burning buildings, street riots and assassinations on the news every night,'' I wrote in Canada's Western Standard back in February.

Silly me. The Eurabian civil war appears to have started some years ahead of my optimistic schedule. As Thursday's edition of the Guardian reported in London: ''French youths fired at police and burned over 300 cars last night as towns around Paris experienced their worst night of violence in a week of urban unrest.''

''French youths,'' huh? You mean Pierre and Jacques and Marcel and Alphonse? Granted that most of the "youths" are technically citizens of the French Republic, it doesn't take much time in les banlieus of Paris to discover that the rioters do not think of their primary identity as ''French'': They're young men from North Africa growing ever more estranged from the broader community with each passing year and wedded ever more intensely to an assertive Muslim identity more implacable than anything you're likely to find in the Middle East. After four somnolent years, it turns out finally that there really is an explosive ''Arab street,'' but it's in Clichy-sous-Bois.

The notion that Texas neocon arrogance was responsible for frosting up trans-Atlantic relations was always preposterous, even for someone as complacent and blinkered as John Kerry. If you had millions of seething unassimilated Muslim youths in lawless suburbs ringing every major city, would you be so eager to send your troops into an Arab country fighting alongside the Americans? For half a decade, French Arabs have been carrying on a low-level intifada against synagogues, kosher butchers, Jewish schools, etc. The concern of the political class has been to prevent the spread of these attacks to targets of more, ah, general interest. They seem to have lost that battle. Unlike America's Europhiles, France's Arab street correctly identified Chirac's opposition to the Iraq war for what it was: a sign of weakness.

The French have been here before, of course. Seven-thirty-two. Not 7:32 Paris time, which is when the nightly Citroen-torching begins, but 732 A.D. -- as in one and a third millennia ago. By then, the Muslims had advanced a thousand miles north of Gibraltar to control Spain and southern France up to the banks of the Loire. In October 732, the Moorish general Abd al-Rahman and his Muslim army were not exactly at the gates of Paris, but they were within 200 miles, just south of the great Frankish shrine of St. Martin of Tours. Somewhere on the road between Poitiers and Tours, they met a Frankish force and, unlike other Christian armies in Europe, this one held its ground ''like a wall . . . a firm glacial mass,'' as the Chronicle of Isidore puts it. A week later, Abd al-Rahman was dead, the Muslims were heading south, and the French general, Charles, had earned himself the surname ''Martel'' -- or ''the Hammer.''

Poitiers was the high-water point of the Muslim tide in western Europe. It was an opportunistic raid by the Moors, but if they'd won, they'd have found it hard to resist pushing on to Paris, to the Rhine and beyond. ''Perhaps,'' wrote Edward Gibbon in The Decline And Fall Of The Roman Empire, ''the interpretation of the Koran would now be taught in the schools of Oxford, and her pulpits might demonstrate to a circumcised people the sanctity and truth of the revelation of Mahomet.'' There would be no Christian Europe. The Anglo-Celts who settled North America would have been Muslim. Poitiers, said Gibbon, was ''an encounter which would change the history of the whole world.''

Battles are very straightforward: Side A wins, Side B loses. But the French government is way beyond anything so clarifying. Today, a fearless Muslim advance has penetrated far deeper into Europe than Abd al-Rahman. They're in Brussels, where Belgian police officers are advised not to be seen drinking coffee in public during Ramadan, and in Malmo, where Swedish ambulance drivers will not go without police escort. It's way too late to rerun the Battle of Poitiers. In the no-go suburbs, even before these current riots, 9,000 police cars had been stoned by ''French youths'' since the beginning of the year; some three dozen cars are set alight even on a quiet night. ''There's a civil war under way in Clichy-sous-Bois at the moment,'' said Michel Thooris of the gendarmes' trade union Action Police CFTC. ''We can no longer withstand this situation on our own. My colleagues neither have the equipment nor the practical or theoretical training for street fighting.''

What to do? In Paris, while ''youths'' fired on the gendarmerie, burned down a gym and disrupted commuter trains, the French Cabinet split in two, as the ''minister for social cohesion'' (a Cabinet position I hope America never requires) and other colleagues distance themselves from the interior minister, the tough-talking Nicolas Sarkozy who dismissed the rioters as ''scum.'' President Chirac seems to have come down on the side of those who feel the scum's grievances need to be addressed. He called for ''a spirit of dialogue and respect.'' As is the way with the political class, they seem to see the riots as an excellent opportunity to scuttle Sarkozy's presidential ambitions rather than as a call to save the Republic.

A few years back I was criticized for a throwaway observation to the effect that ''I find it easier to be optimistic about the futures of Iraq and Pakistan than, say, Holland or Denmark." But this is why. In defiance of traditional immigration patterns, these young men are less assimilated than their grandparents. French cynics like the prime minister, Dominique de Villepin, have spent the last two years scoffing at the Bush Doctrine: Why, everyone knows Islam and democracy are incompatible. If so, that's less a problem for Iraq or Afghanistan than for France and Belgium.

If Chirac isn't exactly Charles Martel, the rioters aren't doing a bad impression of the Muslim armies of 13 centuries ago: They're seizing their opportunities, testing their foe, probing his weak spots. If burning the 'burbs gets you more ''respect'' from Chirac, they'll burn 'em again, and again. In the current issue of City Journal, Theodore Dalrymple concludes a piece on British suicide bombers with this grim summation of the new Europe: ''The sweet dream of universal cultural compatibility has been replaced by the nightmare of permanent conflict.'' Which sounds an awful lot like a new Dark Ages.


WildgodblesstheusaAlaska
 
...Dont you know that very old saying that every convict in prison is innocent...I would like one example of how anyone bettered himself or his neighborhood or his community or his country by spending his short mortal life committing crimes?..does lack of material wealth automatically mean one must choose to rob, or assault, or traffick drugs or murder or mock authority or have no morals of any kind....?
 
And heres another from Mr Steyn who is my fav columnist and can be viewed at http://www.marksteyn.com/

Early skirmish in the Eurabian civil war
By Mark Steyn
(Filed: 08/11/2005)

According to its Office du Tourisme, the big event in Evreux this past weekend was supposed to be the annual fête de la pomme, du cidre et du fromage at the Place de la Mairie. Instead, in this charmingly smouldering cathedral town in Normandy, a shopping mall, a post office, two schools, upwards of 50 vehicles and, oh yes, the police station were destroyed by - what's the word? - "youths".

Over at the Place de la Mairie, M le Maire himself, Jean-Louis Debré, seemed affronted by the very idea that un soupçon de carnage should be allowed to distract from the cheese-tasting. "A hundred people have smashed everything and strewn desolation," he told reporters. "Well, they don't form part of our universe."

Maybe not, but unfortunately you form part of theirs.

Mr Debré, a close pal of President Chirac's, was a little off on the numbers. There were an estimated 200 "youths" rampaging through Evreux. With baseball bats. They injured, among others, a dozen firemen. "To those responsible for the violence, I want to say: Be serious!" Mr Debré told France Info radio. "If you want to live in a fairer, more fraternal society, this is not how to go about it."

Oh, dear. Who's not "being serious" here? In Normandy, it's not just the cheese that's soft and runny. Granted that France's over-regulated sclerotic economy profoundly obstructs the social mobility of immigrants, even Mr Debris - whoops, sorry - even Mr Debré cannot be so out of touch as to think "seriously" that the rioters are rioting for "a fairer, more fraternal society". But maybe he does. The political class and the media seem to serve as mutual reinforcers of their obsolete illusions. Or as the Washington Post's headline put it: "Rage of French youth is a fight for recognition".

Actually, they're very easy to "recognise": just look out the window, they're the ones torching your Renault 5. I'd wager the "French" "youth" find that headline as hilarious as the Jets in West Side Story half a century ago, when they taunted Officer Krupke with "society's" attempts to "understand" them: we're depraved on account of we're deprived. Perhaps some enterprising Paris impresario will mount a production of West Eid Story with choreographed gangs of North African Muslims sashaying through the Place de la Republique, incinerating as they go.

In fact, "rage" seems the least of it: it's the "glee" and "contempt" you're struck by. And "rage" in the sense of spontaneous anger is a very slapdash characterisation of what, after two weeks, is looking like a rather shrewd and disciplined campaign. This business of car burning, for example. In Iraq, the "insurgents" quickly got the hang of setting some second-hand Nissan alight at just the right moment so that its plume of smoke could be conveniently filmed from the press hotel balcony in time for NBC's Today show and Good Morning, America. For a while, every time you switched on the television in America, there'd be some doom'n'gloom anchor yakking away in front of a live scene of a blazing Honda Civic - as reassuring in its familiarity as that local station somewhere or other in North America (Thunder Bay, I think) that used to show a roaring fireplace as its test card all night. What the Aussie pundit Tim Blair calls the nightly Paris car-B-Q looks great on television, but without being sufficiently murderous to provoke the state into forcefully putting down the insurgency.

Indeed, it's an almost perfect tactic if your aim is to have the entire French establishment dithering in grievance-addressing mode until you've extracted as much political advantage as you can. Look at it this way: after two weeks, whose prestige has been more enhanced? The rioters? Or Mayor Debré, President Chirac and Prime Minister de Villepin? On every front these past two weeks, the French state has been tested and communicated only weakness.

As to the "French" "youth", a reader in Antibes cautions me against characterising the disaffected as "Islamist". "Look at the pictures of the youths," he advises. "They look like LA gangsters, not beturbaned prophet-monkeys."

Leaving aside what I'm told are more than a few cries of "Allahu Akhbar!" on the streets, my correspondent is correct. But that's the point. The first country formally to embrace "multiculturalism" - to the extent of giving it a cabinet post - was Canada, where it was sold as a form of benign cultural cross-pollination: the best of all worlds. But just as often it gives us the worst of all worlds. More than three years ago, I wrote about the "tournante" or "take your turn" - the gang rape that's become an adolescent rite of passage in the Muslim quarters of French cities - and similar phenomena throughout the West: "Multiculturalism means that the worst attributes of Muslim culture - the subjugation of women - combine with the worst attributes of Western culture - licence and self-gratification. Tattooed, pierced Pakistani skinhead gangs swaggering down the streets of northern England areas are as much a product of multiculturalism as the turban-wearing Sikh Mountie in the vice-regal escort." Islamofascism itself is what it says: a fusion of Islamic identity with old-school European totalitarianism. But, whether in turbans or gangsta threads, just as Communism was in its day, so Islam is today's ideology of choice for the world's disaffected.

Some of us believe this is an early skirmish in the Eurabian civil war. If the insurgents emerge emboldened, what next? In five years' time, there will be even more of them, and even less resolve on the part of the French state. That, in turn, is likely to accelerate the demographic decline. Europe could face a continent-wide version of the "white flight" phenomenon seen in crime-ridden American cities during the 1970s, as Danes and Dutch scram to America, Australia or anywhere else that will have them.

As to where Britain falls in this grim scenario, I noticed a few months ago that Telegraph readers had started closing their gloomier missives to me with the words, "Fortunately I won't live to see it" - a sign-off now so routine in my mailbag I assumed it was the British version of "Have a nice day". But that's a false consolation. As France this past fortnight reminds us, the changes in Europe are happening far faster than most people thought. That's the problem: unless you're planning on croaking imminently, you will live to see it.
 
The riots started in response to the electricution deaths of a few teenage girls who hid from police in a power station. The police deny chasing them.

There are lots of reasons why these riots are happening. In my opinion, a large portion of the youth of Europe are simply brats who revel in destruction. Some use Islam as an excuse, some use poverty as an excuse, and some are just plain anarchists who want to set stuff on fire. The French government's soft response has not helped the situation.

Below are a couple of links to articles that I think offer good perspectives.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110007512

http://jewishworldreview.com/1105/steyn110705.php3
 
That Mark Steyn is a gifted social commentator, man!

And do you have any idea what his stance on American gun ownership is, or gun ownership in general anywhere?

I'd love to know.

-blackmind
 
Revenge for non-existent harms. You want a cell phone? They are $59.99. What? You don't have $59.99? Why not? Unemployed? Get a job. What? noone will hire you? Why? You are too young? How old are you? 14. You do need to be older to work. What? You NEED the cell phone. For what? To chat, e-mail, take pics and text with your friends. OK. I need $59.99 for the cell phone. What? No I will not discount that or give it to you until you pay me or give you anything, there is the door. What? You and your friends will be back this weekend? Fine. $59.99 each. Where do I park my car?
 
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