What's a good rifle to take on an international sail?
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WalterGAII
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You can get mag extensions for the 870. In my opinion, they are superior to Mossbergs.
Having read all the above posts, I think I'll just stay at home.
Having read all the above posts, I think I'll just stay at home.
Sorry Joseph - I don't have experience w/ the 870. What I can tell you, though, I that the Benelli M3 S90 is one sweet gun as shotguns go - wish I could get it in stainless though...
Keifer - several people raised that issue w/ me too. I don't see it as a problem. Piracy typically occurs in good weather (otherwise boardings are too difficult), and in gentle rolls you are much less likely to fall overboard. I, like many offshore sailors, ALWAYS use my harness offshore - but I will admit that in this situation I would probably unhook it.
Take care and best of luck - Mckysdad
[This message has been edited by mckysdad (edited March 22, 2000).]
Keifer - several people raised that issue w/ me too. I don't see it as a problem. Piracy typically occurs in good weather (otherwise boardings are too difficult), and in gentle rolls you are much less likely to fall overboard. I, like many offshore sailors, ALWAYS use my harness offshore - but I will admit that in this situation I would probably unhook it.
Take care and best of luck - Mckysdad
[This message has been edited by mckysdad (edited March 22, 2000).]
No sailor I, but going into a foreign country with guns can be hazardous to your continued health and freedom. If you can't learn the laws in advance, you could be in for trouble.
Some of the folks seem to be thinking about U.S. Navy ships, which are in another category, or about countries where we have SOFAs.
If you are a plain citizen, you are subject to the laws of the country you are in or attempting to enter. The U.S. cannot (and usually will not) do any more than see that you get counsel. The Marines will not storm ashore to rescue you; the U.S. will not wave its nuclear big stick to get you out of prison. And smuggling arms is, as one poster noted, a capital offense in some countries.
Our press might stick up for you on drugs, but on a weapons charge, they will lead the pack to have you shot.
Jim
Some of the folks seem to be thinking about U.S. Navy ships, which are in another category, or about countries where we have SOFAs.
If you are a plain citizen, you are subject to the laws of the country you are in or attempting to enter. The U.S. cannot (and usually will not) do any more than see that you get counsel. The Marines will not storm ashore to rescue you; the U.S. will not wave its nuclear big stick to get you out of prison. And smuggling arms is, as one poster noted, a capital offense in some countries.
Our press might stick up for you on drugs, but on a weapons charge, they will lead the pack to have you shot.
Jim
I took early retirement in 1987, and my wife and I took off from Seattle on our sailboat. We have just recently returned, 2 boats and 13 years later. We've logged about 75,000 miles, ranging from Alaska to Mexico, to Australia, New Zealand, Indonesia and Singapore. We've spent the last 6 years in the Caribbean and Central America. This past year we sailed through the Panama Canal and up to Seattle nonstop (5,330 miles).
You have to think carefully about the situations when you might use a gun. In my opinion, most of the above scenarios belong in some action flick. They are not realistic. You are not likely to run into drug smugglers or people at sea who want to kill you and steal your boat.
Your main security concerns, in order, will be:
1. someone who wants to steal your dinghy.
2. someone who wants to steal something off your boat.
3. someone who wants to render you or your wife bodily harm, rape, pillage, robbery, mayhem, etc.
The first is extremely likely to occur in any country, and the best defense is to haul your dinghy up on the boat every night AND to get a BIG chain to lock it when you take it ashore.
The second is hard to guard against when you aren't on the boat...but being circumspect on where you anchor will prevent or minimize this.
The third is the stickler. You are legally required to declare any firearms when you clear into a foreign country. In most cases you will be asked to surrender them. You can then pick them up when you leave the country. So they are not going to be on the boat when you need them...if you declare them.
In the beginning I elected to carry a S&W Chief's Special. I never declared it. I kept it well hidden, and it was small enough that I could slip it into the pocket of my shorts. Only twice did I ever bring it out, and fortunately I never needed to use it.
This, however, made me extremely nervous everytime we went through immigration/customs. Because if it had been found, the authorities could have confiscated my boat and thrown me in jail.
I eventually decided it was not worth the hastle and quit carrying it. We just decided to avoid areas where there were potential problems (like Venezuela 2-3 years ago when their economy was in the cellar).
By the way, in all this sailing we lost 2 items. In San Blas, Mexico, someone stole one of our oars (he left us the other one so we could scull back to our boat).
In Fiji a kid took the American flag off our backstay. I took that as a back-handed kind of compliment, since Fijians seemed to love America.
Cheers,
Ten Man
You have to think carefully about the situations when you might use a gun. In my opinion, most of the above scenarios belong in some action flick. They are not realistic. You are not likely to run into drug smugglers or people at sea who want to kill you and steal your boat.
Your main security concerns, in order, will be:
1. someone who wants to steal your dinghy.
2. someone who wants to steal something off your boat.
3. someone who wants to render you or your wife bodily harm, rape, pillage, robbery, mayhem, etc.
The first is extremely likely to occur in any country, and the best defense is to haul your dinghy up on the boat every night AND to get a BIG chain to lock it when you take it ashore.
The second is hard to guard against when you aren't on the boat...but being circumspect on where you anchor will prevent or minimize this.
The third is the stickler. You are legally required to declare any firearms when you clear into a foreign country. In most cases you will be asked to surrender them. You can then pick them up when you leave the country. So they are not going to be on the boat when you need them...if you declare them.
In the beginning I elected to carry a S&W Chief's Special. I never declared it. I kept it well hidden, and it was small enough that I could slip it into the pocket of my shorts. Only twice did I ever bring it out, and fortunately I never needed to use it.
This, however, made me extremely nervous everytime we went through immigration/customs. Because if it had been found, the authorities could have confiscated my boat and thrown me in jail.
I eventually decided it was not worth the hastle and quit carrying it. We just decided to avoid areas where there were potential problems (like Venezuela 2-3 years ago when their economy was in the cellar).
By the way, in all this sailing we lost 2 items. In San Blas, Mexico, someone stole one of our oars (he left us the other one so we could scull back to our boat).
In Fiji a kid took the American flag off our backstay. I took that as a back-handed kind of compliment, since Fijians seemed to love America.
Cheers,
Ten Man
Not to belabor the point, but reverse the situation. What would happen if a private boat from, say, Liberia, were to sail into Baltimore harbor mounting a .50 cal as Gale recommends? And the owner says some guy on the internet told him it was OK. Wanna bet the USCG or Customs would provide the owner room and board for a while?
Jim
Jim
I went down to the gun shop yesterday to look over their wares.
The Benelli is an absolutely sweet shotgun! But that is its problem. It is very expensive and very desirable. I'd hate to loose it over the side!
The 870 Marine looks like the one I'll go with. Not too expensive, weatherized, and potent.
I also took my first look at the Mini-14, and I was duly impressed. Synthetic stock, stainless steel, and easier to handle for smaller crewmembers if the need arise.
Although the .223 doesn't have the range of the .308, my thinking is I'll be shooting from a moving platform and knocking off a round at 500-1000 yards is going to simply be a warning shot no matter how hard I try to hit anything.
And it's cheap!
Still do like the M1A, but I can buy a 870 and a Mini-14 and have money left over for what I'd pay for the Springfield.
By the way, the Mexican consulate will issue permits for these weapons when traveling by boat into Mexican waters, so that gives me a great deal of comfort.
Ten Man: Thanks for your great comments. Most helpful.
The Benelli is an absolutely sweet shotgun! But that is its problem. It is very expensive and very desirable. I'd hate to loose it over the side!
The 870 Marine looks like the one I'll go with. Not too expensive, weatherized, and potent.
I also took my first look at the Mini-14, and I was duly impressed. Synthetic stock, stainless steel, and easier to handle for smaller crewmembers if the need arise.
Although the .223 doesn't have the range of the .308, my thinking is I'll be shooting from a moving platform and knocking off a round at 500-1000 yards is going to simply be a warning shot no matter how hard I try to hit anything.
And it's cheap!
Still do like the M1A, but I can buy a 870 and a Mini-14 and have money left over for what I'd pay for the Springfield.
By the way, the Mexican consulate will issue permits for these weapons when traveling by boat into Mexican waters, so that gives me a great deal of comfort.
Ten Man: Thanks for your great comments. Most helpful.
To Jim Keenen:
I have been lurking on this thread the whole time it has been going, hoping to learn something. I am about as landlocked (Mo.) as a person can get. I am still confused on this issue of arms on ships.
It seems to me that the whole issue is frought with problems. Seizing foriegn ships or sailors on weapons or any other pretexts would surely very quickly degenerate into piracy. Seizing a foriegn ship could easily result in retaliation by a foriegn power. One needs to be careful in dealing with foriegn shipping.
As noited, I am still confused on the entire subject.
I have been lurking on this thread the whole time it has been going, hoping to learn something. I am about as landlocked (Mo.) as a person can get. I am still confused on this issue of arms on ships.
It seems to me that the whole issue is frought with problems. Seizing foriegn ships or sailors on weapons or any other pretexts would surely very quickly degenerate into piracy. Seizing a foriegn ship could easily result in retaliation by a foriegn power. One needs to be careful in dealing with foriegn shipping.
As noited, I am still confused on the entire subject.
Hi, Herodotus,
First I am no sailor - my stomach tends to get nervous around a swimming pool. But here is what I understand and have been told.
Naval and government vessels are covered by international law, treaties, and bi-lateral agreements. But private boats, once in national waters, are subject to the laws of that nation, and a tied up boat is no different legally from a house or apartment. That is why the Coast Guard can board and seize boats carrying drugs once they are in U.S. waters.
Even laws here can get tacky. If I sail from Ft. Lauderdale carrying my Glock legally with a Florida CCW license, and dock in New York, I am in violation of the gun laws in that state and city. And if a customs search finds the gun, I could be in trouble.
All boats entering a harbor, other than those covered by exemptions, are subject to customs searches. Any contraband can be seized and the owner/occupants of the boat arrested. The charge would usually be not carrying without a license, but arms smuggling, a far more serious offense.
It is true that these laws are often spottily enforced, just as customs laws are at many airports, but that does not mean the laws do not exist. Sailing a private boat with a mounted .50 machinegun into any port, U.S. or foreign, is going to get the boat owner at least some hard questioning, and may get him a greeting from a firing squad or a nice polite gentleman with a rope collar in his hand.
The deal is the same as carrying a gun illegally here. If someone feels it necessary, he will do it and take a chance with the law. But foreign prisons are not given four-star hotel ratings, and arms smuggling seldom is punishable by a small fine.
Jim
First I am no sailor - my stomach tends to get nervous around a swimming pool. But here is what I understand and have been told.
Naval and government vessels are covered by international law, treaties, and bi-lateral agreements. But private boats, once in national waters, are subject to the laws of that nation, and a tied up boat is no different legally from a house or apartment. That is why the Coast Guard can board and seize boats carrying drugs once they are in U.S. waters.
Even laws here can get tacky. If I sail from Ft. Lauderdale carrying my Glock legally with a Florida CCW license, and dock in New York, I am in violation of the gun laws in that state and city. And if a customs search finds the gun, I could be in trouble.
All boats entering a harbor, other than those covered by exemptions, are subject to customs searches. Any contraband can be seized and the owner/occupants of the boat arrested. The charge would usually be not carrying without a license, but arms smuggling, a far more serious offense.
It is true that these laws are often spottily enforced, just as customs laws are at many airports, but that does not mean the laws do not exist. Sailing a private boat with a mounted .50 machinegun into any port, U.S. or foreign, is going to get the boat owner at least some hard questioning, and may get him a greeting from a firing squad or a nice polite gentleman with a rope collar in his hand.
The deal is the same as carrying a gun illegally here. If someone feels it necessary, he will do it and take a chance with the law. But foreign prisons are not given four-star hotel ratings, and arms smuggling seldom is punishable by a small fine.
Jim
"By the way, the Mexican consulate will issue permits for these weapons when traveling by boat into Mexican waters, so that gives me a great deal of comfort."
That's the key, prior permission for where you are going. I would imagine the less exotic, the easier to get permission (or to be less coveted by local LE).
That's the key, prior permission for where you are going. I would imagine the less exotic, the easier to get permission (or to be less coveted by local LE).
Desert Dog
New member
106mm recoilless mounted on the bow, M2 mounted on the stern by the rudder. 
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.45 Super... Fat and FAST...
"No provision in our Constitution ought to be dearer to man than that which protects the rights of conscience against the enterprises of the civil authority" - Thomas Jefferson
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.45 Super... Fat and FAST...
"No provision in our Constitution ought to be dearer to man than that which protects the rights of conscience against the enterprises of the civil authority" - Thomas Jefferson
fubsy,
I have traveled extensively in Mexico, and I've never ever had any disagreements with either local LEOs or the Federales. I remember that certain clothing could be confiscated, things that resembled military garb, and I'm not surprised that they would seal the weapons.
Any idea what they would do around Yucatan, say Isla Mujeres or Cancun?
I have traveled extensively in Mexico, and I've never ever had any disagreements with either local LEOs or the Federales. I remember that certain clothing could be confiscated, things that resembled military garb, and I'm not surprised that they would seal the weapons.
Any idea what they would do around Yucatan, say Isla Mujeres or Cancun?
Joeseph,
talked to my buds today and they'll discuss it with you, Ive sent them your email link and they probably will get back to ya tomorrow.....I believe they just came back from the cancun and ilse of mujereos(sp), area............they suggested you contact the mexican consulate as well....but yall can discuss that stuff...later fubsy.
talked to my buds today and they'll discuss it with you, Ive sent them your email link and they probably will get back to ya tomorrow.....I believe they just came back from the cancun and ilse of mujereos(sp), area............they suggested you contact the mexican consulate as well....but yall can discuss that stuff...later fubsy.
Nestor Rivera
New member
being on the realist side my recomendation would be an inexpencive rifle like an SKS or Politicaly correct Ak varient in that if a you need to leave it somwere (like davy jones locker) you wont miss it as much and as for salt air a good coating on some RIG on the parts and Sheath on the rest will help. If you are want to get a can of the teflon cote from brownells.
I like the 870 and think it will do well for you. But keep in mind our militaty uses the 590 all the time and you don't hear complaints about it... There can be the occasional quality control problem but this is usualy fixable/replaceable as Mossberg has a 10 year warrenty..as all things a little range time is neccesary to find out if the new "Do Hickey" works...(I love my 590
I think your wepon chioces will do fine and G-D be with you on your solo sail!
I think your wepon chioces will do fine and G-D be with you on your solo sail!
Ok, the shotgun is on board. Picked up a Rem. 870 Marine today, $400 total for a 99%, including tax, at a Charlotte gunshow.
I'm still in a quandry about the mini-14/M1A choice.
I like the .308 and AP potential a lot. I guess I shouldn't get stupid over the $1325 or so for the synthetic/stainless model. The guy who sold me the 870, and who had a Mini-14 next to the 870, really thought the M1A would be much better for my needs. There was the M1A at another booth, configured perfectly, and boy, was that a sweet rifle!
AAARRGGHHH!
I'm still in a quandry about the mini-14/M1A choice.
I like the .308 and AP potential a lot. I guess I shouldn't get stupid over the $1325 or so for the synthetic/stainless model. The guy who sold me the 870, and who had a Mini-14 next to the 870, really thought the M1A would be much better for my needs. There was the M1A at another booth, configured perfectly, and boy, was that a sweet rifle!AAARRGGHHH!
Ok, found out the skinny on the AP rounds.
Legally, I can only get them in .223 (SS109 and M855 Ammunition) or .30-06 (M2 AP).
I have a fondness for the old M1 (although I had to run the grinder with that puppy held over my head "way too many time").
Or the Mini-14, which I'm beginning to have doubts over.
Ideas? Should I make a choice based on the availability of AP rounds??
Legally, I can only get them in .223 (SS109 and M855 Ammunition) or .30-06 (M2 AP).
I have a fondness for the old M1 (although I had to run the grinder with that puppy held over my head "way too many time").
Or the Mini-14, which I'm beginning to have doubts over.
Ideas? Should I make a choice based on the availability of AP rounds??
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