Whatever the result, was the NRA an effective force ?

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RH

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There, I said it.

I am very disappointed that with the huge push of PR, money, Chuck for another term, and tough talk from Heston & LaPierre, we still lost PA & Michigan. Huge "sportsmen" states with very high gun ownership.

I joined this year and was very proud to help make the 4 million mark, but I have to ask the question out loud - Do the results of this election prove that the NRA is a viable force to be reckoned with, or obsolete ?
 
RH, the NRA can only do so much. Heston and LaPierre can't go into the voting booths with gun owners. If you're mad about the election, find some gun owners who voted for Gore and pistol whip them. With their own guns.

Remember too that, after the NRA went after Gore in MI, PA, WI, IL, IN and all the other hunting states, Gore's people worked overtime lying to the union gun owners about Gore's stance on guns. And the union guys bought that lie, especially in Michigan.

As gun owners, our biggest enemy has always been those within our ranks.

Dick
Want to send a message to Bush? Sign the petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/monk/petition.html and forward the link to every gun owner you know.
 
Golfers With Guns

Huge sportsman states? These guys are some of our worst enemies. Only 61% of them voted for Bush. They believe that the 2A concerns hunting rights. They are, as a group, ignorant.

The NRA may have at least caused Gore to have to spend more money in Ohio, Michigan, and Penn. One out of three ain't bad.

Rick
 
The Rural, Hunting sections of PA did vote for Bush...

They were numerically out voted by the entitlement zones of Pittsburgh & Philadelphia

dZ
 
A summary of exit poll results I read last week in a major newspaper claimed Bush out-polled Gore among gun owners by only 25%. That means for every 100 gun owners polled, roughly 45 voted for Gore and roughly 55 voted for Bush. If true, I think that's amazing! How can this be? Bush should have done so much better than that. Sure, he's not perfect but.............compared to Gore???!! How could it have been so close? In fact, this whole election should never have been as close as it was.
 
Without gun owner support Bush would have lost. We still needed Nader out there and with him sapping Gore votes ours made the difference.
 
What you really have to keep in mind is that if the Clinton/Gore administration had not been such a disaster and so repellant to a great many people who did vote for them in 1992 and 1996, there is no way in the world that any Republican candidate could have even come close to beating them in the 2000 election. The disatisfaction on the 2nd amendment was one of the key key issues that swung a lot of people away from Gore, but there are several other issues as well: civil liberties in general, lack of effective environmental, urban and energy policies, ineffective military and foriegn policies, unsrcupulous exploitation of racial, gender and ethnic predujice, scandals, etc. etc.
Every disatisfied group's vote counted for Bush in this election, he needed every vote he got.
Do keep this in mind as you speculate on why he did not get even more.
He is lucky just to have won. If he proves an effective leader, he should have the edge in 2004.
 
Like some others I am dissilussioned. I must be mad. My vision ensured a landslide victory for Bush. I was sure that the U.S. was fed up with the likes of Clinton/Gore, stupid me! How is it that half of the voting public believe Gore is the answer to our future? What does this message mean to us gunowning patriots?
 
How many times have we heard the old line "80 million strong, gunowners could win every election if we wanted to." We've been hearing this for years. Yet we keep losing rights and electing dishonest, liberal, anti-gun politicians. What does this tell us? I propose that the Second Amend. isn't really that important to a lot of gun owners. Actually, I like to refer to these folks as "people who just happen to own guns," not "gun owners."

The NRA did what it could. But like Monkeyleg said they can't vote for people. Heck, think about it...we're all happy because the NRA recently hit 4 million members. 4 million folks! By my calculations this is just 5% of the shooting community.

In order to snare some of our apethetic brethren, we will need to push other hot buttons that are somewhat related to the Second Amendment issue such as BATF/FBI abuses, IRS abuses, current forfeiture/seizure laws, etc. There is a certain 860 page novel that does a good job of detailing this theory of a multi-faceted approach. If we can cast a wide enough net, maybe we can get more of our ranks to the voting booth before it's too late.

Sub
 
Its not just gun owners........

This is an excellent subject, and my first post/reply on TFL.
I to belong to NRA, GOA, MCRGO, as does my whole family.
I too was disgusted by the outcome of the election, as I also thought Bush would get it in a landslide.
My personal prediction made in August, was 350 Electoral votes.
I am VERY unhappy with my countrymen, and fellow gunowners, whom appear to value a long list of luxuries over basic freedom, but the only thing that consoles me, is Samuel Adams, and his following quote;
"If you love
wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude better than
the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not
your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you and may posterity forget that ye
were our countrymen." --Samuel Adams

Merry Christmas, and may God help us all.
 
Although Bush took Texas by a good margin, my own observations here, and they may be mirrored in other states, are this. At my particular place of employement (about 2,000), I would say that maybe 80% or better are gun owners. About 70% hunt or have hunted. Over 50% where raised on small farms or ranches and some of them still ranch and farm a little on the side.

The vast majority of these folks do not understand the real meaning or intent of the 2nd Amendment. So, when Gore (LIES) and says he doesn't want to take guns from sportmans, it makes them feel secure in the future exercise of their hunting activities. They believe the lie and don't understand that the 2nd isn't about hunting. Many fear that the Republicans will trash the unions and since many are union memebers they tend to vote for whomever the union says will be best for union interests, the country be damned. A great many of those who are not union members and are gun owners, do not vote. They feel that both parties are crooked to the core and your screwed either way. Both of these groups are many times to cheap to become members of the NRA. I have for years, one each year, picked out a co-worker who is not a member of the NRA and secretly paid for a one year membership for them in the hope that when it expired they would renew it. The magazines and mailings are a great and usually unheard of source of information for these people.

So between supossedly voting their pocket books and not voting at all, many votes are lost or misapplied. Within the next 4 years, if Bush wins, he needs to do 3 things to get re-elected.

1. Ensure that gun owners understand that the democrates WANT TO ELIMINATE GUN OWNERSHIP COMPLETELY NO MATTER WHAT THE LIEING BASTARDS SAY and rein in the ATF or disban it.

2. Do what it takes to appeal to union members across the country. Don't give big business any hammers to destroy unions, etc. Support laws that prevent or discourage Corporate America from treating their workers like disposable diapers or endentured servants.

3. Very quitely go after any potential rivials for the next term, such as Hillary Clinton and Al Gore. I believe that if he digs deep enough, he will find wrong doings great enough to put both in prison. It would not hurt to snag Bill Clinton in this also. All done legally and above board, but as quitely as possible. The republicans need to figure out who the most likely contenders will be in 2004 and start gathing dirt to hammer them with.

I also belive that that he should start serious investigations into voter fraud in the areas of; illegal aliens voting, convicted felons voting, etc. A number of these people and those who arranged it should be convicted and jailed a short time before the next election as an example and deterrent. I would like to see all state laws changed so that you must show proof of citizenship to get a voter card and if you don't have the voter card and a state issued picture ID when you show up at the polls, too damn bad, you don't get to vote. Voter registration should be done early enough that the states have time to run the names against criminal record data bases to weed out and PROSECUTE felons that are attempting to illegally vote.

It is my gut feeling that a great many of the votes Gore received were cast illegally and that the democrates promote such illegal activity. It seems to be a democratic family value going back at least as far as LBJ. Thousands of dead people voted for LBJ and people laughed about it.

Bush must also be careful about becoming too moderate or he may lose many of the supporters he has now. Any consession to gun control AT ALL, will cost him votes. It will cost him mine, especially if other republican contenders are to my liking, or if a super strong third party canidate surfaces.


Sorry it was so long, but thats my 2 cents.
 
#@*$!

Chalk Michigan up to the stupidas_ed union voter. Yeah some may be gun owners but they are the slob owners. To them it's about the longstanding BS that Dems are for the working man and the Repubs the rich. The other reason is that bus voters in the inner city with instructions on who to vote for. These people are too stupid to know better and shound't be voting anyway.
I even talked to a retired serviceman whose guard unit is being mobilized for Hungary. He said the Repubs always start wars while the Dems finish them. Interesting thing is his unit is being activated because hardly anyone is left in the regular army because of Klinton's policies.
Dam this is hard on one's hypertension!
Mac
 
If the NRA was effective and given the tie we have, then one must conclude that the GOP is pretty damn weak.

Or it is the case that other issues are way more important
to gun owners than the RKBA.

The GOP better figure out its weaknesses or else it will be reduced to a hard core of folks who lose righteously at each election and then complain about it.
 
The media and Democrats have made the RKBA and gun ownership "politically incorrect" in a relatively short time. It truly falls under the "Big Lie" category. This combined with Gore being the incumbent - the Democrats should have swept the election.

Instead, Gore has been soundly embarressed in the election and, hopefully, it signals the end of his political career. I think the NRA and gun owners had a lot to do with it.

But look how close things are now in the House and Senate. There's a lot of work still to be done to undo the big lies and secure our RKBA.
 
i just hope that the democrats understand what a RKBA rally cry the MMM event was.

Tipper in a MMM shirt might have lost them the election.

dZ
 
The NRA did an excellent job. Unfortunately, there are many who talk about rights, liberty, and firearms, but when push comes to shove, vote their wallet or how their union tells them to.
 
Most NRA members did what they could. Every election, we need to be more of a force. This one was no different.

In Michigan, the union workers had a paid holiday on election day. Many worked the polls in shifts. They passed out strictly Democratic literature. In predominantly black Detroit, Gore got 95% or so of the city of Detroit vote.

Don't forget that anti-gun Debbie Stabenow also narrowly defeated (fairly) pro-gun Spencer Abraham in the Senate, also.

We need to be more of a force. WE need better voter turnout. We need to ensure that we vote pro-gun and vote as a block so that this "gun issue" goes away and we can concentrate on hunting and shooting. We need to continue to get this message out, and we can't wait until the next election to do so.

straightShot
 
Contrary to claims by Jesse Jackson, there is some evidence that the vote in many black districts exceeded 100%. Bill Daley, Gore's campaign manager learned from his infamous father how to stuff ballot boxes and get away with it. The NRA was successful but they were dependent on people only voting once. The opinion polls all said Bush would win by a larger margin. They were not wrong they just did not count the million illegal votes racked up in the cities. If you play honest you cannot beat a cheater.
 
The NRA is effective - It's just that there's a buncha folks who aren't members...

Let's see...

I wonder what percentage of gun owners are members...

Revolver owners
Pistol owners
Rifle owners
-centerfire
-rimfire
-"deer" rifle
-"assault" rifle
-Military C&R type stuff
Shotgun owners
-Duck hunters
-Other birds
-Deer & Turkey
-Trap & skeet shooters
-Sporting Clays

I'll wager that we have the highest rate of membership among the "assault rifle" and "C&R" type folks, and the lowest in the duck hunters and shotgun golfers...
 
1. The NRA can only effectively influence the outcome of an election when the saliency of gun issues becomes high. With both Gore AND Bush running away from the issue, the isue dropped below the radar screen of most gun owners, and the NRA was left with little leverage.

2. The NRA can't effectively promote candidates who aren't pro-gun, and Bush was NOT running as a pro-gun candidate; Promised to maintain the "assault weapons" ban, raise the age for gun ownership, repeal nothing...

3. We can't elect a crash test dummy.
 
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