RedneckFur
New member
Around home, I know alot of bear hunters that use .44mag revolvers. If i was hunting short range, I'd probably choose one as well.
What Would Your Rifle Be?
- Thread starter Sportdog
- Start date
My choice would depend on a few things.
You didn't mention if this was going to be a guided hunt with a pro outfitter or not.
It matters.
When I went on a brown bear hunt, the outfitter (excellent by the way) told me not to bring anything smaller than a 300 Win Mag--That was HIS bare min. caliber.
When you got to camp, you had to prove you could shoot and we did--if you couldn't shoot--you didn't hunt.
I was instructed NOT to bring ANY handguns to camp and if you did, it stayed at camp.
It was also made very clear that if things got dangerous as in the hunter had bad shot placement or a bear charged, that the guide would shoot the bear and it was YOUR bear --no whinning--if you could not anchor it, he would.
I mention this because you MAY run into a brown on your black bear hunt.
Who you are hunting with and what calibers they use and how good they are matters.
Even the guys that take bear with a bow, USUALLY have a skilled hunter backing them with a large caliber proven rifle.
So, I would look at taking something along the lines of a .338 Magnum.
I like Mausers myself for their controlled round feeding and other reasons--so do MANY guides.
I wouldn't consider a single shot anything UNLESS I was being backed up by others that had the ability to get off multiple quick shots.
I would make sure I took a proven rifle that functions properly---feeding being very important--and I would practice with it.
Synthetic stock would be a good idea.
Good safe trigger not under 3 lbs.
I would invest in a top of the line scope--don't try to save money here it could ruin your hunt.
Much of what I said is with the thought you will have a good chance of running into a brown in the area you'll be hunting in.
I would talk to my guide ( if using one) or the rest of my hunting party and base some of what I did on their abilities and what they intend on carrying and how good they are ---under stress.
If I was 100% sure all I was going to see is black bears, I wouldn't be so concerned about all these things.
Dipper
You didn't mention if this was going to be a guided hunt with a pro outfitter or not.
It matters.
When I went on a brown bear hunt, the outfitter (excellent by the way) told me not to bring anything smaller than a 300 Win Mag--That was HIS bare min. caliber.
When you got to camp, you had to prove you could shoot and we did--if you couldn't shoot--you didn't hunt.
I was instructed NOT to bring ANY handguns to camp and if you did, it stayed at camp.
It was also made very clear that if things got dangerous as in the hunter had bad shot placement or a bear charged, that the guide would shoot the bear and it was YOUR bear --no whinning--if you could not anchor it, he would.
I mention this because you MAY run into a brown on your black bear hunt.
Who you are hunting with and what calibers they use and how good they are matters.
Even the guys that take bear with a bow, USUALLY have a skilled hunter backing them with a large caliber proven rifle.
So, I would look at taking something along the lines of a .338 Magnum.
I like Mausers myself for their controlled round feeding and other reasons--so do MANY guides.
I wouldn't consider a single shot anything UNLESS I was being backed up by others that had the ability to get off multiple quick shots.
I would make sure I took a proven rifle that functions properly---feeding being very important--and I would practice with it.
Synthetic stock would be a good idea.
Good safe trigger not under 3 lbs.
I would invest in a top of the line scope--don't try to save money here it could ruin your hunt.
Much of what I said is with the thought you will have a good chance of running into a brown in the area you'll be hunting in.
I would talk to my guide ( if using one) or the rest of my hunting party and base some of what I did on their abilities and what they intend on carrying and how good they are ---under stress.
If I was 100% sure all I was going to see is black bears, I wouldn't be so concerned about all these things.
Dipper
What kind of refund did the Guide offer if he refused to let you hunt? If I'm paying to hunt, it is his right to refuse to take me but I'd better get 100% refund of my money that I paid the guide service. Plus what was his requirements on being able to shoot? I'm sure they weren't too unreasonable as most Brown Bears are taken at short ranges. Were 2-3" groups at 100 yards acceptable to your guide or was he wanting sub moa groups?
As far as needing more rifle than what the OP has for the chance encounter with a Brownie, I don't see the need if it is a guided hunt in Brown Bear country. The OP will not be the one to drop the hammer on a Brown unless it has already taken the guide out. It will be the guides job to determine how to handle the Brown Bear as the AK F&G will have a nice set of hefty fines if they can't prove that their lives were in danger.
As far as an unguided hunt goes then that will be up to what the OP is comfortable shooting.
Take what you have and are comfortable with,shots on coastal bears vary I've been within 50 yds and was with a group that took one at over 300 yds most shots will be closer but sometimes the bear of a lifetime is 200 yds out an theres no cover,if you know you can make the shot , OK but if you aren't sure no magnum will do the deed for you.Buy the way the 50 yd shot was taken by a guy with a new 375 with me standing over his shoulder taking pictures, he missed.
taylor,
It was 3 shoots off hand standing position in a 6 inch circle @ 100 yards---if you couldn't do that you lost your deposit and stayed in camp.
None in our party failed to do this but one guy from another group did while we were there---it was the rifles fault don't you know
.
The outfitter told us there are guys that show up and can't shoot and he didn't want to mess with them---it was ALL explained up front in all the information and contract BEFORE you showed up so no ones fault but your own if you went and couldn't shoot.
As to your second paragraph, thats why I asked if it was guided or not.
If its a unguided hunt, the OP may be very comfortable with a .243 and nothing larger---if thats the case, on this particular hunt in that area, I would suggest he stay home.
Alaska,
It isn't about a magnum doing the job for you as in overcoming very poor shot
placement---it is about stopping power.
A wounded brown can cover 50 yards in a blink of an eye.
The guy that missed at 50 yards is the reason why the guy I used tested your abilities when you got in camp.
Some wealthy guys purchase their rifles 2 weeks before camp and show up unprepared to hunt and shoot.
I understood the guides rules--it was a serious hunt and he expected all involved to be as serious as he was.
Dipper
It was 3 shoots off hand standing position in a 6 inch circle @ 100 yards---if you couldn't do that you lost your deposit and stayed in camp.
None in our party failed to do this but one guy from another group did while we were there---it was the rifles fault don't you know
.The outfitter told us there are guys that show up and can't shoot and he didn't want to mess with them---it was ALL explained up front in all the information and contract BEFORE you showed up so no ones fault but your own if you went and couldn't shoot.
As to your second paragraph, thats why I asked if it was guided or not.
If its a unguided hunt, the OP may be very comfortable with a .243 and nothing larger---if thats the case, on this particular hunt in that area, I would suggest he stay home.
Alaska,
It isn't about a magnum doing the job for you as in overcoming very poor shot
placement---it is about stopping power.
A wounded brown can cover 50 yards in a blink of an eye.
The guy that missed at 50 yards is the reason why the guy I used tested your abilities when you got in camp.
Some wealthy guys purchase their rifles 2 weeks before camp and show up unprepared to hunt and shoot.
I understood the guides rules--it was a serious hunt and he expected all involved to be as serious as he was.
Dipper
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Well the OP is actually talking about the .30-06, and yes it doesn't have the stopping power of a .338 Win but it will kill a brown bear just as dead. It takes a very cool head to face a charging bear be it black or brown regardless, but a missed shot with a .338 will not stop a bear any better than a missed shot with a .30-06. Will the .30-06 stop a charging bear better than the .338 Win, probably not but I'll bet it can stop them still with a well placed shot. Better IMO to be confident with the .30-06 than to doubt the .338 Win as the OP stated that he didn't like the recoil of the .300 Win. Truth is most people can't tolerate the recoil of the .338 Win without using some kind of recoil reducing device, and develop shooting problems quick when shooting without recoil reduction.
In my limited experience, I took a black bear on a DIY hunt in Southeast Alaska with a .30-06 and didn't feel under gunned once. It was rumored that browns had started showing up as far South as where we were hunting, but I never saw one. I defiantly would not go smaller than the .30-06 if hunting in known brown bear territory.
Presently, getting everthing ready for fall..
here in Washington.
I'm looking forward to hitting the bush for Black bear with either my T/C New Englander.50 with patched RB over 70 gr, M70 .308, m88 or M100 same caliber using 165gr Sierra SPBT or HPBT @ 2450fps. Back-up is M500 12ga or Ithaca M37 16ga. For grins T/C Contender in either 30/30 using the cowboy 165 lead or .357Mag,Have .44 but .357 is more controllable.
Later for Elk, will be the M70 with 165 Noslers/Barnes or 180 Sierra's@ about 2650 fps. May try the New Englander with maxi-Hunter for range and hitting power.
here in Washington.
I'm looking forward to hitting the bush for Black bear with either my T/C New Englander.50 with patched RB over 70 gr, M70 .308, m88 or M100 same caliber using 165gr Sierra SPBT or HPBT @ 2450fps. Back-up is M500 12ga or Ithaca M37 16ga. For grins T/C Contender in either 30/30 using the cowboy 165 lead or .357Mag,Have .44 but .357 is more controllable.
Later for Elk, will be the M70 with 165 Noslers/Barnes or 180 Sierra's@ about 2650 fps. May try the New Englander with maxi-Hunter for range and hitting power.
My .30-06 has dropped everything it's shot at--as have millions in other hands-- so I see no reason to expect differently of it in northern latitudes. That said I suppose I wouldn't turn down a .338 if someone would loan it to me, but it wouldn't be a must have on the list at Bass Pro. Pawn shop maybe, but not new.
blackhawk45
New member
Hunting Black Bears ,with the possibility, of running across an angry Brownie,I would have to choose a 700 Rem. with a good trigger,wearing a Burris Fullfield,3X9 , with some stiff handloads,in 338Win Mag. pushing a Premium 250gr bullet.
Sidetracked
New member
There are many, many options.
I wont touch on metal finish choices or stock; only cartridge choice.
First off, I'd like to tell you about the only weapon I've had to use against a Black Bear.
I got cornered between the locked passenger door of my truck (truck running, keys in the ignition), a 5 foot deep stream, and an angry mother. You see; I was about 15 feet from her, with her cub forcing himself tightly against her back legs.
Having been charged by this 250 pound bear twice, a month earlier; I knew I was in a bad spot. It was me or her! I grabbed the closest weapon available, and charged her. Dumbest mistake of my life... but it seemed like a good idea at the time.
Anywho, it turned out she was, in fact, afraid of big muddy sticks. She ran off into the woods with the cub, and I ran off into the truck to change my underwear.
Big muddy stick +1
8x57 Mauser sitting in the passenger seat... call it a draw.
As a close to my Big Muddy Stick story, I'll tell you where it was.
Florida.
(You, right there! Yea, you, that just sat back and said "They aint got no bears in Florida." You are the reason I added that.)
Back to the subject-
I think anything from 30-06 up should do just fine. I am a bit of an 8x57 fan, though. I would include it in the group, since the heavier bullets will typically offer equal or better penetration within the proper ranges.
Some specific calibers that come to mind, and may have already been mentioned:
--General use--
.300 Win Mag/.300 Weatherby
.338 Win Mag/.340 Weatherby
.358 Win
.458 Win / Lott (why not)
.35 Whelen/.350 Rem Mag (Know your effective range)
.375 Whelen
.400 Whelen (Don't start the headspace discussion please.)
.411 Hawk
Oh, I just saw your other post about being an 8x57 Mauser fan. If you reload to make the most of the cartridge, or can buy some European manufactured ammo - Go with it! Good shots wont let you down. If you shoot factory ammo - I would take the 30-06, and not worry about buying another rifle.
Reason behind the Mauser compromise:
As I'm sure you may know already; most American made 8x57IS(JS, .323") hunting ammo is not up to par.
Federal is the only company I know for sure that actually uses .323" bullets. Everything else I have measured comes out to .318"-.320", yet are still marked with all the warnings about it being only for the .323" bore.
We pounded a couple brands through a chronograph a few years ago. The only one that broke 2200 fps (23" barrel) was the Federal.
Even with the extra speed on Federal's side, the big brands are ALL reported to be light loads.
They may do the job, but handloads, euro ammo, or the 06 are a better choice.
As for the outfitter - it's your money and your hunt. Do it your way.
-My thoughts.
I wont touch on metal finish choices or stock; only cartridge choice.
First off, I'd like to tell you about the only weapon I've had to use against a Black Bear.
I got cornered between the locked passenger door of my truck (truck running, keys in the ignition), a 5 foot deep stream, and an angry mother. You see; I was about 15 feet from her, with her cub forcing himself tightly against her back legs.
Having been charged by this 250 pound bear twice, a month earlier; I knew I was in a bad spot. It was me or her! I grabbed the closest weapon available, and charged her. Dumbest mistake of my life... but it seemed like a good idea at the time.
Anywho, it turned out she was, in fact, afraid of big muddy sticks. She ran off into the woods with the cub, and I ran off into the truck to change my underwear.
Big muddy stick +1
8x57 Mauser sitting in the passenger seat... call it a draw.
As a close to my Big Muddy Stick story, I'll tell you where it was.
Florida.
(You, right there! Yea, you, that just sat back and said "They aint got no bears in Florida." You are the reason I added that.
)Back to the subject-
I think anything from 30-06 up should do just fine. I am a bit of an 8x57 fan, though. I would include it in the group, since the heavier bullets will typically offer equal or better penetration within the proper ranges.
Some specific calibers that come to mind, and may have already been mentioned:
--General use--
.300 Win Mag/.300 Weatherby
.338 Win Mag/.340 Weatherby
.358 Win
.458 Win / Lott (why not)
.35 Whelen/.350 Rem Mag (Know your effective range)
.375 Whelen
.400 Whelen (Don't start the headspace discussion please.)
.411 Hawk
Oh, I just saw your other post about being an 8x57 Mauser fan. If you reload to make the most of the cartridge, or can buy some European manufactured ammo - Go with it! Good shots wont let you down. If you shoot factory ammo - I would take the 30-06, and not worry about buying another rifle.
Reason behind the Mauser compromise:
As I'm sure you may know already; most American made 8x57IS(JS, .323") hunting ammo is not up to par.
Federal is the only company I know for sure that actually uses .323" bullets. Everything else I have measured comes out to .318"-.320", yet are still marked with all the warnings about it being only for the .323" bore.
We pounded a couple brands through a chronograph a few years ago. The only one that broke 2200 fps (23" barrel) was the Federal.
Even with the extra speed on Federal's side, the big brands are ALL reported to be light loads.
They may do the job, but handloads, euro ammo, or the 06 are a better choice.
As for the outfitter - it's your money and your hunt. Do it your way.
-My thoughts.
. Not that its ideal for the big nasty but it could.Firepower!
New member
I would chose 7mm Mag. or .308.
I think both with do the job fine.
I think both with do the job fine.
Any deer caliber will do.
One thing you might consider is that the coastal forests of BC are pretty dense and a carbine might be the way to go. It depends on whether you're hunting from a stand or stalking the bear. The same deal as for deer, a shorter more maneuverable rifle might be better in brush.
If you're worried, contact the person that's taking you hunting.
One thing you might consider is that the coastal forests of BC are pretty dense and a carbine might be the way to go. It depends on whether you're hunting from a stand or stalking the bear. The same deal as for deer, a shorter more maneuverable rifle might be better in brush.
If you're worried, contact the person that's taking you hunting.
Legionnaire
New member
If pulling from the safe, either a Remington Model Seven in .308 (lightweight HS Precision stock and Leupold 2-7X compact scope) or a 700 BDL in .30-06 (walnut stock with Leupold 3.5-10X scope). Quality controlled expansion bullet from either.
If buying a rifle for the hunt, I'd lean toward another Remington 700, in .338 Win Mag. I don't believe the .300 Win Mag is enough more powerful than the .30-06 to justify it. Alternately, one of the big bore Marlin Guide Guns.
And if in Alaska, I'd have a 4" .44 Mag Redhawk on my waist.
If buying a rifle for the hunt, I'd lean toward another Remington 700, in .338 Win Mag. I don't believe the .300 Win Mag is enough more powerful than the .30-06 to justify it. Alternately, one of the big bore Marlin Guide Guns.
And if in Alaska, I'd have a 4" .44 Mag Redhawk on my waist.
LanceOregon
Moderator
Black Bears are not that difficult to kill. Any deer rifle from .243 on up will work just fine at closer ranges. You would only need to go with sometime more powerful if you are anticipating doing some long range shooting.
One of my Dad's neighbors used to hunt black bears a lot in the far northern area of California, before his knees went bad. He only hunted them at close range, though. But he was easily able to dispatch them using a Colt Gold Cup .45 pistol shooting Federal 230 gr HydraShok bullets.
I suspect that Black bears in Canada may be a bit larger, and more tenacious, though. So what worked for my Dad's friend in California, could easily not be advisable there.
But you certainly don't need a magnum class rifle to effectively take Black Bear.
.
One of my Dad's neighbors used to hunt black bears a lot in the far northern area of California, before his knees went bad. He only hunted them at close range, though. But he was easily able to dispatch them using a Colt Gold Cup .45 pistol shooting Federal 230 gr HydraShok bullets.
I suspect that Black bears in Canada may be a bit larger, and more tenacious, though. So what worked for my Dad's friend in California, could easily not be advisable there.
But you certainly don't need a magnum class rifle to effectively take Black Bear.
.
There are a lot of things you need to know ,are you hunting beaches in the spring, clear cuts in the mountains .Will you be in boats or trucks ,what does your outfitter say about the max range.Hunting spring bears here in P.W.S. or southeast your best bet is stainless whatever ,one dunking in salt is not good for any gun, while most shots can be limited to ranges under 150 do you want to pass the bear of a lifetime because he's past the range of your 45/70 ,or bow ,Black bears are not that hard to kill it's more about what your wanting out of this ,if your outfitter says 338 an your not comfortable with the gun find another outfitter, this is supposed to be your time your hunt ,your money ,time and memories if its not a good experience then the bad memories cost a lot so decide what you need to make this fun for you,always remember the hunt the experience the fun are what this is all about ,the kill a bonus ,if we were all 100% kills hunting season would be very limited ,it's limited enough as it is.So go have fun find what you need to make this the memory of a lifetime, if you can do that with a bow ,or a 500 nitro have fun.
mattamuskeet
New member
It would be fun to build a custom rig for your bear hunt(s). You could get one of your 30-06's rebarreled to 35 whelen with about a 20 or 22" barrel and a 1x-5x scope. One of those new fangled finishes on the metal in OD green and a synthetic black stock...
All of a sudden I wish I was going on a bear hunt
All of a sudden I wish I was going on a bear hunt
one-shot-one
New member
$0.02
if you don't want an excuse to buy a "new" rifle, then go with the '06 you feel most comfortable with & 180^ premium bullets.
if i had to go with with is on hand:
1. 300wsm winchester mod. 70 with "plastic" stock & 3x9 Leupold.
180 grn. winchester failsafes.
2. .308 remington mod. 600 with "plastic" stock & 3x9 Leupold.
165 grn. nossler balistic tips.
3. 30-06 custom german mauser, wood stock & 3x9 ??? german scope.
180 grn. winchester silver tips.
4. 45-70 marlin guide gun ss w/wood stocks & 2x7 Leupold.
430 grn lead beartooth.
5. 6.5x55 sweed mauser woodstock & 3x9 Leupold.
139 grn norma.
in that order of preferance, but would not feel under gunned with any of them.
that said it would be (for me) the perfect excuse to buy a:
1. .338 fedral in a ss/"plastic" stocked bolt gun with a & 3x9 Leupold or Nikon.
2. .338 win mag maybe a CZ bolt gun with a & 3x9 Leupold or Nikon.
if you don't want an excuse to buy a "new" rifle, then go with the '06 you feel most comfortable with & 180^ premium bullets.
if i had to go with with is on hand:
1. 300wsm winchester mod. 70 with "plastic" stock & 3x9 Leupold.
180 grn. winchester failsafes.
2. .308 remington mod. 600 with "plastic" stock & 3x9 Leupold.
165 grn. nossler balistic tips.
3. 30-06 custom german mauser, wood stock & 3x9 ??? german scope.
180 grn. winchester silver tips.
4. 45-70 marlin guide gun ss w/wood stocks & 2x7 Leupold.
430 grn lead beartooth.
5. 6.5x55 sweed mauser woodstock & 3x9 Leupold.
139 grn norma.
in that order of preferance, but would not feel under gunned with any of them.
that said it would be (for me) the perfect excuse to buy a:
1. .338 fedral in a ss/"plastic" stocked bolt gun with a & 3x9 Leupold or Nikon.
2. .338 win mag maybe a CZ bolt gun with a & 3x9 Leupold or Nikon.