What would you rebarrel a Mauser to?

^^ That's exactly what it is. I guess I should take a picture or something, it has a nice stock and a bent bolt handle already and the receiver is drilled and tapped for scope mounts, to me it's worth the effort to rebarrel. Everything on it has matching numbers except the barrel, and a previous owner apparently shot a bunch of corrosive ammo out of it without much if any cleaning. That, and the crowning on the muzzle is beat up badly. With a little refinishing and a new barrel I think it will make a decent rifle.

I'm leaning pretty hard toward .257 Roberts now, I think I'll have a talk with a 'smith and get some pricing together. Thanks!
 
La Coruna Model 98

those are good actions and will handle any "06" family cartridge and less, 257 Bob is a wonderful choice and with a " light sporter " barrel in that caliber, it would make a great carry deer gun.
 
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For a .25 cal fan, the Bob is an excellent choice, as the parent case comes from the 7x57-8x57, and will need zero extra work to make it feed flawlessly.


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The more I study these old military actions, the less I am convinced that rebarreling them to cartridges that are higher in pressure than the cartridge they were issued in is all that good of an idea.


I have not found an explicit statement to the design loads that Paul Mauser used. SAAMI and CIP standards were established well after his death. However there is information about the proof pressures used in M98 actions.

Rifle Magazine Issue 159 May 1995 Dear Editor pg 10http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/ri159partial.pdf

Ludwig Olsen :

Mauser 98 actions produced by Mauser and DWM were proofed with two loads that produced approximately 1000 atmosphere greater pressure than normal factory rounds. That procedure was in accordance with the 1891 German proof law. Proof pressure for the Mauser 98 in 7 X57 was 4,050 atmospheres (57, 591 psi). Pressure of the normal 7 X 57 factory load with 11.2 gram bullet was given in Mauser’s 1908 patent boot as 3,050 atmosphere, or 43, 371 pounds.

While many Mausers in the 1908 Brazilian category will likely endure pressures considerably in excess of the 4,050 atmospheres proof loads, there might be some setback of the receiver locking shoulder with such high pressures

Kunhausen shows similar numbers in his book : “The Mauser Bolt Actions, A Shop Manual”

Rifle & Carbine 98: M98 Firearms of the German Army from 1898 to 1918 Dieter

Page 103. M98 Mauser service rifles underwent a 2 round proof at 4,000 atm gas pressure, 1 atm = 14.6 psi, 4000 atm = 58, 784 psia.

Dieter reports that lugs broke at the rate of one per 1000 rifles used by the Bavarian Army Corp!

Unless someone can produce credible data as to the proof standards of later 98 military actions, and the design limits used by Paul Mauser, I am going to state that it is reasonable that the action was designed to support cartridges of 43, 371 psia with a case head diameter of 0.470”. I have no reason to believe that later German service rifle ammunition was of higher pressure as that would have had back compatibility issues with stores of obsolete 8mm rifles. If you look in reference books you see the Germans issuing virtually every type of rifle, the newest and most modern to front line troops, the less modern to rear line troops. There were plenty of M98’s cut down and rebuilt to shorter configurations. Pictures in the book “ German GEW 88 “Commission” Rifle” show WW1 and WW2 use of that rifle. As an aside, I have handled a single shot M71 that the owner claimed, his great Grandfather carried that rifle in WW1 when he was in the German Landwehr. http://greatwars-gamburd.blogspot.com/2008/10/landsturm-und-landwehr-explained.html While individual shooters may think it makes lots of sense to increase pressures to increase performance, for the military, logistical cost considerations will always outweigh the musing of dreamers.

I believe that a pressure standard for these rifles of 43, 371 lbs/ in ² is reasonable based on the SAAMI spec pressure for the 8mm round of 35, 000 lbs/ in ². Obviously SAAMI researched this issue, probably determined original pressure standards, then used wise judgment about the age, uncertain previous history, unknown storage, usage, the known limited strength of period plain carbon steel actions, and as an industry, they were are not willing to accept the liability involved with selling new ammunition of a higher pressure.

I recommend you price out the cost of a new barrel and what a gunsmith will charge you to rebarrel the thing. Bluing, tapping for scope mounts, etc. Unless you have an emotional attachment to the rifle, in which case rationale economics do not apply, you will not recoup your costs on a future sale of it.
 
I have re barrelled 98 Mausers to:
45acp
257 Roberts Ackley Improved [a lot of these]
25/35
223
308 [ a lot of these]
260
7mm Rem Mag [ a number of these]
300 Win Mag
243
7.62x25mm Tokarev
7x57mm

And I have shot a number of them with the original 8x57mm barrel

7mmRemMagantelope2011.jpg

I shot a deer and an antelope with this VZ24 converted to 7mmRemMag

If I were on my first Mauser, I would convert to 6mmRem or 257 Roberts.
That would be the easiest with the most likely happy results.
 
"I believe that a pressure standard for these rifles of 43, 371 lbs/ in ² is reasonable based on the SAAMI spec pressure for the 8mm round of 35, 000 lbs/ in ². Obviously SAAMI researched this issue, probably determined original pressure standards, then used wise judgment about the age, uncertain previous history, unknown storage, usage, the known limited strength of period plain carbon steel actions, and as an industry, they were are not willing to accept the liability involved with selling new ammunition of a higher pressure."

You are only partially correct. The 8MM Mauser originally had a bore diameter of .318" When Germany switched to a lighter weight bullet they went to a .323" bore diameter. Pressures were kept somewhat low because there were too many M88s that had the tighter bore as did some of the early M98s. Europeans that own and shoot 7.92 Mausers (8MM) know which bore their rifles have and use the proper ammunition. Here in the US, there were many various 8x57s brought back by returning GIs, most not having a clue about the different bore sizes. So SAAMI decided to use a low standard for the round. Break some US made ammo down sometime and measure the bullets. They're not .318" nor are they .323" The ones I saw and measured were .320"; that with the low pressure loading makes the round safe ion either bore size. A properly loaded 8x57 will give a 30-06 a darn good run for it's money given a proper load.
Paul B.
 
You are only partially correct. The 8MM Mauser originally had a bore diameter of .318" When Germany switched to a lighter weight bullet they went to a .323" bore diameter. Pressures were kept somewhat low because there were too many M88s that had the tighter bore as did some of the early M98s. Europeans that own and shoot 7.92 Mausers (8MM) know which bore their rifles have and use the proper ammunition. Here in the US, there were many various 8x57s brought back by returning GIs, most not having a clue about the different bore sizes. So SAAMI decided to use a low standard for the round. Break some US made ammo down sometime and measure the bullets. They're not .318" nor are they .323" The ones I saw and measured were .320"; that with the low pressure loading makes the round safe ion either bore size. A properly loaded 8x57 will give a 30-06 a darn good run for it's money given a proper load.

Not arguing that the 8mm loaded to modern pressures is not a great round, it is.

Liability in Europe is somewhat different as firearm ownership is different. I don't know all the countries laws, but I am aware that many European countries have separate proof houses. If I have it right, the English require that firearms be reproofed on sales between individuals. The proof house gets its fee on the proof job, not on your sale, so they really don’t give a flip whether you sell the firearm or not. If the firearm is not within spec, they won’t pass it. That would reduce the liability of ammunition companies as the number of dangerous and out of spec firearms would be weeded out over time. And in fact, CIP standards for 8mm are higher, but the peak pressure is less than SAAMI uses for the 30-06. Don't know why but I could guess it is due to all those old Mausers floating around, even after proof. Maybe they know something we don't.

In America, the strict liability concept puts great liability on the manufacturer.


The Germans spent money time and effort rebarreling M1888 service rifles to the larger bore diameter. Rifles were stamped on the chamber with an “S” (I think) indicating the new larger bore. While M1888’s sold to the Turks and other countries may not have been rebarreled, that would not have affected the pressure the Germans kept their service rifle ammunition, which, stayed 43,000 psia.

It may have been a reason why SAAMI spec ammunition is less than the German standard, or it may not have been. If you actually have access to minutes of the SAAMI meeting that decided the 35 Kpsia please put those in the public domain.
 
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recommend you price out the cost of a new barrel and what a gunsmith will charge you to rebarrel the thing. Bluing, tapping for scope mounts, etc. Unless you have an emotional attachment to the rifle, in which case rationale economics do not apply, you will not recoup your costs on a future sale of it.


It already has a bent bolt, drilled and tapped, and has a very nice hardwood stock on it. I'm only into the rifle a couple of hundred bucks, plus the cost of the scope mounts themselves, and $25.00 for a limbsaver pad to replace the hard plastic that was on there.

Either way, it's pretty worthless with a rotted out 8mm barrel.

The only thing pushing me away from 6mm Remington is the fact that I have a .243 already, and with my kids growing into shooting in the next few years, I don't want to have a mishap from somebody failing to read a headstamp.
 
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Either way, it's pretty worthless with a rotted out 8mm barrel.

Would have to agree on that.

A 257 Roberts conversion with a long throated barrel would give excellent velocities at reasonable pressures, and, in my opinion, the 257 Roberts does everything a 243 can do, and more at lower pressures.

I have a pre 64 with the extra long throat characteristic of older M70's. My 257 Roberts liked the 4350 powders and shot very well with a 100 grain Sierra. This pre 64 had a short magazine conversion and the previous owner converted it to a long action. This allowed seating the bullet out two tenth’s longer than what I see in reloading manuals. I think this was critical for the good accuracy I got because I was able to seat the bullet 0.030” off the lands instead of having the bullet jump about a quarter inch.

Given that my loads pushed a 100 grain bullet just at 2800-2850 fps and maximum loads in my Nosler reloading manual show 3000 fps in shorter throated rifles, my pressures are less.


Code:
[SIZE="3"][B]Pre 64 M70 Featherweight  257 Roberts[/B] 			
					
100 grain Sierra SP 44.0 grs IMR 4350 wtd, Lot RB 15 (60's) Fed 210S W-W brass 
OAL 2.930", 2.950" touched lands.			
					
19-Aug-13	T = 85 °F				
					
Ave Vel =	2849	 			 
Std Dev =	27				 
ES =	90	 			 
Low =	2795				 
High =	2885				 
N =	10			 	 
					
Normal looking primers, good group except for one flyer	
					
					
100 grain Sierra SP 45.0 grs H4350 wtd, Lot 22685 Fed 210S W-W brass 
OAL 2.930", 2.950" touched lands.			
					
19-Aug-13	T = 85 °F				
					
Ave Vel =	2822	 		 	 
Std Dev =	14			 	 
ES =	36	 		 	 
Low =	2802			 	 
High =	2838			 	 
N =	5			 	 
					
Excellent group, under 1 MOA			
					
100 grain Sierra SP 38.0 grs Varget wtd,  Lot 4292 Fed 210S W-W brass 
OAL 2.930", 2.950" touched lands.			
					
19-Aug-13	T = 85 °F				
					
Ave Vel =	2809	 		 	 
Std Dev =	12			 	 
ES =	28	 		 	 
Low =	2789			 	 
High =	2817			 	 
N =	5			 	 
					
About 3 MOA	[/SIZE]




 
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