What would you have done at 4 am?

I think more emphasis should be put on this rather than some possible tactical advantage.
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Of course it should. Nothing I said indicates otherwise.

I was specifically responding to the comment that shooting through the door was not "tactically sound". The fact is that it can be tactically sound--the reason that it is generally not recommended is because of the moral and legal issues involved.
 
JohnKSa, I think you are confused.
I was specifically responding to the comment that shooting through the door was not "tactically sound".
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I made a comment stating that people have endorsed shooting unidentified persons (in the dark or through a door) as "tactically sound" and I do not agree with said practice. I never said it was not "tactically sound" because by definition, shooting people before they know you are there is about as "tactically sound" as it gets.
 
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You did exactly the right things - turn on the lights, call the cops, didn't open the door.

Good discussion of this in a Massad Ayoob video on YouTube - Don't Answer the Door, just search for it.
 
Called 911 once, in my 10 years in this house, 5 minutes response time.

We are upstairs, two of us. Check for known vehicles from upstairs. Call 911, hit the alarm switch it is one loud siren, give it a couple of minutes, turn it off!

Cell phone, Glock 19, we are the end of 4 town houses.
 
You really need a way of seeing who's at your door without "going to" the door or answering it.

Window in another room, camera, etc.
 
That may not be the recommendation from a TFL member in this thread but it is suggesting what I was railing against. If you think nobody on this forum has ever suggested shooting someone who has not been identified as a tactically sound practice, you haven't been reading T&T for very long.
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Sorry Willie, I try and stick to focusing on the topic as presented. I don't see much use in dragging in responses from people who aren't involved unless it has a direct bearing on the course of the conversation.

But hey, that's just me :D
 
If they are on the other side of the door, I don't see how you could feel your life was in danger.
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BTW, are you sure? Bullets can pass through doors in both directions. I am just playing devil's advocate here, but the truth is, the moment a bad guy selects your home as a possible target, you are in danger whether you realize it or not.

The rest is a matter of degrees and particulars.
 
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If they are on the other side of the door, I don't see how you could feel your life was in danger.

BTW, are you sure? Bullets can pass through doors in both directions. I am just playing devil's advocate here, but the truth is, the moment a bad guy selects your home as a possible target, you are in danger whether you realize it or not.
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You may not use deadly force just because you are in danger or even if you reasonably fear that your life is in danger. In most states, you must have a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily injury. In most metropolitan areas your life is in in danger whenever you get on a freeway, but not imminent danger.

Whether or not your you held such a fear and if it was reasonable is a question of fact. If at 3 in the morning the person is on the other side of a door chambering a round and taking a stance to kick in your door, all of which you saw on a security monitor, I think law enforcement and a jury might buy justifiable homicide. If you didn't know that they were chambering a round or were even armed or that they were preparing to kick in the door, you may need a good criminal defense attorney.
 
DreamingStraight, i am not talking about the law, i did not recommend any action. I just said what I said, don't read anything at all into it.
 
If you didn't know that they were chambering a round or were even armed or that they were preparing to kick in the door, you may need a good criminal defense attorney.
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ANYONE involved in any sort of SD or HD shooting will more than likely need a good criminal defense attorney. Shooting through a door at someone who has not fired at you merely raises the likelihood to 100%.

Fact is, it's dumb to put yourself in harm's way unnecessarily. If you really think that knock/disturbance at the door could be someone wanting to take a shot at you, why would you put yourself in a position to be in the direct line of fire?
 
I'm not sure that "suspect" is the correct term at this point as no crime has been committed
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oh for petes sake.. lets take a step away from semantics for a second. If some guy is running around my backyard at 4am, I [suspect] he is up to no good, I suspect he is someone uninvited and a unwanted trespasser on my property, I suspect he has unlawful intent and until I know differently.. he is a suspect. It doesn't make a hill of beans difference if a crime has been committed or not, his actions under the circumstances deem him a suspect trespasser until he is an obvious offender or until I decide he is neither.
 
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I'd call 911 and obtain a position downstairs where I could watch both points of entry to the house, 590A1 in hand. My dog would be going crazy, so anyone jiggling the handle or attempting to ram on the door would clearly be up to no good (and probably has a death wish.)

If it seems that there are multiple people trying to gain access from both doors, I'm going to retreat to the basement and seal up in my "gun room"...AR15 will be then be retrieved. Wait on the cavalry from there. Unless glass is broken and door is about to be breached, I can't imagine a situation where I would fire through the door.
 
The presence of a stranger near my front, or patio door, at night? Sounds like a 911 call, then a couple of alarm siren tweak's! That is loud.

Would not be too hard to kick my front door in, my first sight of your head coming up the stairs? Would have my TruGlo sights superimposed on it.

The Police announce their Office, and reason to be in a premises, very loudly, and a lot! So no mistakes in that case.
 
Calling the police is all fine and dandy but where I live if the cops are in a hurry its a good 20-25 min before they can get to my spot. I do occasionally get knocks late at night. Only house for miles and live near a very scenic overlook with a steep drive up to the overlook. Because its so far out cell coverage is very spotty but from our bedroom (or any other room on the second floor) we usually get 2 bars. Usually its just someone asking to use the LAN line or where they can find cell service.

What we do is I grab a pistol and my wife grabs the marlin (357 magnum carbine) and the cell phone and then I talk over the intercom (it was popular in the 1980s when the house was built to have an intercom). If they need to use the LAN line I have a wireless phone I can hand though the mail slot. But usually I just tell them there is cell service about 200 yards down the road and they leave. Pretty much everyone these days has a cell phone. If I called the cops every time someone came knocking at night the cops may not be in such a hurry to get out here next time.

I also have 2 dogs. One is a rottweiler and the other is a minpin. The rottweiler is protective but sleeps heavy the minpin cant help but bark and that wakes up the rottweiler any time someone is around the house. I think its a good combination. They sleep on the main floor. I have also added one of those steel mesh doors to both the front and back door. They are pretty strong and its one more door to go through. But in all honesty the windows would be the weak spot but our bedroom and all our guns are on the second floor.
 
Hindsight is that I personally would went and opened the door or went out another door, came around and found out what was going on. (Armed of course). They could of sincerely needed help.
 
Someone running in your backyard may not have ill intent. He may have been being chased by someone(s) who did have ill intent. They could be a teenager just running around and knocking trash cans over and such. It could be someone who just escaped from being kidnapped. There are multiple possibilities.

Here in my state, there was a recent case where a woman entered a house late at night, and a man fired a shot at the door. The woman was struck and did live. The man was her grandfather, and she had been staying with him for awhile. He had fired in the dark.

Now, that said, I used to live a rural area and I recall one instance where the police where called about persons coming onto the property looking for someone who lived there, he wasn't there. It took the police 45 minutes to arrive. There is a reason everyone in that area kept a shotgun on deck.
 
I would answer the door. Not everyone is out to get you. Someone banging on your door at 4am probably isn't trying to rob you. I would most definitely have a round chambered and my gun in my hand, but 99/100 it is someone in dire need of help.
 
Everyone is assuming that you can't identify the person on the other side of the door, and saying that shooting through a door is highly irresponsible. I'd like to point out that a lot of doors, especially a lot of back doors and side doors, have large window panes in them, and therefore it's possible you could identify the target and what is beyond it.

That being said, unless the person is clearly trying to break in or is armed and appears to have ill intent, shooting through the door is still a bad idea from a legal and moral standpoint.

If someone was banging on my door at 4am, I'd prepare for ill intent (get my gun and have my wife with phone in hand ready to call 911), but before calling the police, I'd check to find out what the situation was. That includes going to a location where I can see what's going on, and verbally challenging the person at the door to find out who they are and what they wanted.

However, I don't think you'd want to stand close to and in line with the door (in case they were armed and had no compunction against firing through a door), and I don't think you'd want to illuminate yourself by turning the lights on until you had a better understanding of whether the individual outside might have intent to harm you.

I also prefer not to advertise that I have a weapon. While that might discourage the average bad guy, some might just alter their tactics to be prepared to deal with an armed person. I would instead say that the police have been called (whether we'd called them yet or not).

I don't believe in calling the police until I've determined that there is a need. Too much of that can lead to the situation of Peter and the Wolf.
 
I don't believe in calling the police until I've determined that there is a need
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This reminds me of a movie scene where 3 badguys break all the glass out of 2 large windows with baseball bats, yank the curtin and rod off the wall enter the home and knock over a lamp... all while the home owner is standing in a hallway 4 feet away with a golfclub saying "hello?...Hello? who's there?

I think common sense is about all a person needs but calling for help should probably happen sooner rather than later and if its a false alarm.. oh well, honest mistake.
 
Re calling 911 in this situation

What is the downside? If it is a bad guy, help is on the way for me. If it is a good guy in need, help is on the way for them. Make the call.
 
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