What would you do?

Status
Not open for further replies.
U

USP45usp

Moderator
Okay, let's stop saying what we agree with or disagree with and what should or should not happen. Let's go with a real life thread, not pointing fingers but what your idea of what we should do.

Subject: War in Iraq

Objective: We are already in this war, we can't turn back time. Whether you agree with it or not, we are there. Now, what are your plans of what should be done, and after you present your answer, please explain it.

I'll start:

We are there. We are making the same mistake in Vietnam, we are allowing the pols to run it and to make the decisions. All and I mean ALL control should be given to the commanders in the field. Give them what they want/need and step back.

We are at war, we need to stop pussy footing around. We need to hit and hit hard. Torture, sure, why not. They do it to our troops and to the civilians and it may get us somewhere. IMHO they don't deserve to live anyway. And before you say it, if they attacked here, I don't expect them to pussy foot around and they will take to torture. Fight fire with fire. No holds barred.

Civilians. Unfortunatly(sp) this is war. War is not pretty, people die. It would be great if there were fields of war that were designated that only forces of each side fight upon. Whoever won, gained that victory. It's not the days of old (or in games) where this happens. When a country is at war, everything and everyone are targets to get to your objective. Do you really think that if they get over here that they will worry about our civilians and will only attack soldiers? If you believe that, you've already forgotten. You try the best you can to ensure that no one but the enemy is killed, but it's unrealistic to believe that this will always happen.

This is a unique war due to there are no uniforms on the enemy. They are everywhere and they are not only one culture, but others that have taken this as a chance to fight the "great satan". You may be best friends with the next leader of the home grown sleeper cell sitting right beside you, and you will never know it and they have no problem with going on with their mission(s).

Those are my ideas on the subject at hand.

As I sit in my house, I have taken steps to protect myself while in the house and out. In the house I have one primary pistol, and the shotgun, all other weapons have been sold (sorry, needed the money for a few things, didn't want to say it sooner). The primary handgun goes with me everywhere and it's sure not capable of holding off hords of terrorist so in reality, I would rather them stay over there fighting than over here in my back yard.

Wayne
 
You are a funny man. Just curious, since the enemies in Iraq are not wearing uniforms, which means we have a devil of a time identifying op forces unless they are shooting at us, just how is it you think your mission of hitting them hard should be fulfilled? Who do you hit hard when you can't identify your enemy outside of the enemy shooting at you?

So you think torture is an alright idea? I sort of half to laugh at the double standard. Folks here at home, many who post on boards such as this, and some in the military are outraged when they hear that such atrocities happen to American soldiers, but you suggest it is okay we do use torture. Interesting.

You said it was a unique war because the enemy doesn't wear uniforms. This is incorrect as it is not uncommon at all, especially when the non-uniformed force is in the minority of numbers or firepower. In recent times, we have seen it with the Afghanis and Soviets, the French Underground and the Germans, and Afghanis and Americans. In each of these examples, a common aspect aside from the lack of uniforms is that the folks without uniforms are all fighting on 'home' turf against invaders. Not all the fighters in Iraq are Iraqi, but they are tied together as Muslims. Iraq is closer to being their turf than it is the turf of the US.

I found it interesting that you noted non Iraqis entering into Iraq to fight the great Satan. Amazingly, that is the same reason the Americans are there.
 
DNS,

I didn't ask for you to question me, I asked what you would do. And you haven't.

Those are my thoughts on the subject, be them right or wrong, which is neither.

My question was, what is your solution to the war that we are in.

Wayne
 
+1 Double Naught Spy.

USP45usp, within your plan, how would you define victory?

As per torture, simply because those whom we oppose stoop to that level, doesn't justify our stooping to that same level. There's an old saying about two wrongs ...

What would I do? I wouldn't have been there in the first place. But given the conditions that exist now as I understand them, I'd look to get out of Iraq ASAP. What we're doing now doesn't seem to be working all too well, and I think we've progressed past the point that the continued presence of American troops in Iraq is going to be anything but a source of contention and anger for a good portion of the Iraqi people.

I'll admit to some angst (quite a bit, actually) about what will happen to the country and its people once the coalition forces leave, be it tomorrow or sometime later, but at some point they're going to have to figure it out for themselves. This isn't like the occupation of Japan or Germany after the Second World War, where the armed conflict clearly was at an end and the vast majority of people wanted to move on with their lives. Any government established in Iraq at this point in time will be regarded by many as a puppet of the Americans and most likely overthrown the minute we leave.

Simplistic analysis, probably. But you asked.

As per sleeper cells exploding into American homes and malls, the threat of that happening is greatly exaggerated. Not nonexistent, but greatly exaggerated.
 
Leif,

So one to pull out, one to stay and fight no holds barred.

At least you answered the original question. I thank you for that.

Wayne

PS, I didn't ask for questions, I asked for what you would do. I will not answer any questions, I just wish for your input into solutions or what you would do :).
 
Maybe you should set up a poll of some sort?

With regard to your PS above, does that same immunity extend to everybody who posts herein? Sorry, it's a question, but a technical question.
 
Leif,

A poll is not needed, give a choice which doesn't have to be explained. For those that really have an interest in the thread, it forces them to explain what they say.

A poll is easy to click and submit, a direct question causes such more thought in which to answer.

And to explain. I'm not here and I didn't make this thread to make waves, I really want to know if we can come up with an answer. There will be many views, of which all will be questionable by one or the other, but maybe we can come to an answer that those in the white house and the pentagon hasn't been able to do.

It's our chance to actually play politics and to put all answers on the table to see what may be the best one to do.

I've taken the no hold bars attitude, do what needs to be done, win this war. You have taken the get out attitude and allow the country to become what it may.

Wayne
 
I'm with Wayne on this one.......

Whats that guy say? Git r' done........These people are a threat to our country...Period! Seen the news lately? No WMD's.......I call BS on that one. These people have already won, they have changed our lives. The only way to get the win back is Eradication of the threat.

Some say this may be Hitleresque.......I am not talking about eradicating a race. I am talking about eradicating a threat. Major difference here. Think about it........

Stay out of there? Never should have gone? I agree. we should have taken care of the issue back in the 90's

All's fair in Love and War?

Maybe.......Maybe we should draw a line somewhere. I don't disagree with the "mental torture". Play mind games to get what you want. You do it everyday.......
 
I'd start by re-examining the procedure we're using to get an effective Iraqi police force and military up to speed. How many years does that take?

At some point, Iraq is going to have to stand up on its own. The US Army cannot be the Iraqi Army and national police forever.
 
What should we do? Win this war by any means necessary.

The borders of Iraq must be sealed in order to keep out an endless supply of reinforcements to take the place of the enemy combatants that we kill.

We must be able to pursue the enemy wherever he goes and kill him where he runs to. The war does not stop at an imaginary line on the ground or at an arbitrary line on a map.

We found that out on September 11, 2001.
 
first off I think we should of never been there in the first place.

what i think should be done now:

disclaimer: I wish we werent there, but us being there has caused problems that are going to come back to us in the future. so now that we are there:

Immediatly give our commanders money or resources they need now, no matter how much.

shut down the borders.

train iraqis to do the jobs themselves. take them out of the freaking country if need be.
Ask our allies to help, it is not too late. If we could get our allies to help with training in their own countries it would cut down on cost, possibly gain us support, and iraqis could train in a non hostile enviroment until they are trully ready(as appossed to fearing for their lives, and their families).

get other counties involved(the iraqis would have to do this). Have them go on tv and freaking beg, I dont care just get it done. if we throw ALOT of money, resources, and support of others at this it just might work.

get the oil infrastructure up, running, and secured. this will help with the cost, if the money is used to build schools, hospitals, and librarys maybe people will see some good in their country.
Anyone who wants to help should be able to. ANYONE. they help, they get discounted oil, period.

granted the only reasons I say this is because the situation is probably lose/lose.(note the term probably). if we stay in iraq and iraq becomes a democracy it could become a terrorist sponsored hell-hole(through democracy). If we pull out the same could happen, plus there are way more terrorists in the country now, and they have had training. then add in other countries becoming involved in iraq after we leave and you have a f@#4ed if we do, f@#$ed if we dont.

edit: forgot to add

If we do train iraqis in enough numbers to support their gov. we may have another afghanistan. i.e. we train em, we supply em, we forget em, they fight us.
 
to progunners above response.

there were no iraqis involved in september the 11th. September the 11th showed me that we should take care of terrorists who are threats to us in the u.s. Not dictators who are not.
 
The problem everyone has with the war seems to be that iraq wasn't a threat. The only problem with that is you have to know without a shadow of doubt about that. The terrorist involved with 911 wasn't a threat till they took over the planes. till that time it was just assumed we was safe from attack. Its a bad feeling to be caught with your pants down.But back on subject i don't think there is a way of winning the war in iraq except by total domination of the country. but by then you would have to do the same thing to the entire middle east. you have to totally break their will to resist thats hard to do this day and age. With how the world views war. England couldn't do it to india,France couldn't vietnam. We did it to the native americans only by decimating them and their food source.I don't think the american people or the world would like that to much.
 
huh, i was just adding my .02

thank you for calling me ignorant, it really works good for whatever side your arguing for. how much money did saddam give to al-qaeda? just curious because i didnt think he cared about anyone besides himself.
 
Life is sure funny, we think in terms of America for some things and don't even consider what is good in others. What is it that all the politicians say at election time?IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID We need to give people over there jobs and a life to hang onto so they won't want to be terrorist.

Most Iraqis have no jobs, give them jobs and things will settle down. I would take all the land between the Tigress and the Eupretes rivers and use the four growing seasons a year that they have and turn it into food for the whole middle east.

I would use the oil and minerals to build infastructure that supports a culture of democacy. As the people start getting ahead they will turn in the terrorist or kill them. I would start building today and the war will be over sooner.

25
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top