What would you choose for a 9mm PDW?
- Thread starter CDR_Glock
- Start date
TruthTellers
New member
For PDW, the CZ. I just think the AR is too large for such a role thanks to the buffer tube.
As too which of those is the better gun overall, it's AR pistol all the way.
As too which of those is the better gun overall, it's AR pistol all the way.
None of the above. I would choose a conventional 9mm pistol. What is essentially a giant 9mm pistol never made much sense to me. If need for a firearm is considered imminent, would not a long gun serve better? If going about one's daily life, where combat is not considered imminent, would not a conventional pistol serve better? For range fun, or just because, great. But for serious use, not so much IMHO. I was paid to carry a firearm for quite a few years, in both uniform and plain clothes, and am glad I was not required to carry a 9MM semi-auto "PDW"....ymmv
Pathfinder45
New member
PDW,...PDW,..... Is that Greek? Help a poor, ignorant revolver- guy out. Just now dabbling with auto pistols and haven't a clue about these acronyms.....
TruthTellers
New member
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_defense_weapon
Basically a defensive weapon that isn't intended for frontline use, but is smaller than a rifle, yet more powerful and easier to shoot than a pistol and is able to defeat some levels of body armor.
Well, I have all three, but I need to build the HB Industries K version for my Scorpion when I get home. I have the Sig MPX-K, CZ Scorpion, B&T GHM9, CMMG Banshee, RONI STAB for my G17, a few AR pistols (couple home built, DDM4V7 pistol, a 300 BO AR pistol), and an AK47 PAP pistol with arm brace.
They are all fun, but "practical" or "suitable" really depends on the environment and purpose. I will state up front, none of these PDW type "pistols" are a replacement for a concealable pistol; nor are they are replacement for a carbine/rifle. They are very much niche firearms.
As to their application? They are less concealable than a conventional CCW, but quite often more concealable than a rifle. Pistol caliber versions are simply large handguns, but they do offer vastly better accuracy, a much more stable platform for fast follow up shots and multiple engagements, a better platform for lights and sights, and stretch realistic engagement ranges out to 100-150 meters with much better accuracy than a conventional handgun.
The rifle-caliber pistols do offer better ballistics, but give up a lot of range and penetration potential with the shorter barrels. Noise and blast are pretty severe in confined spaces. I'm still quite impressed with accuracy even if the terminal performance is degraded. I'm easily engaging silhouettes out to 200 meters consistently.
Both are good choices for suppressor hosts. I wouldn't use a rifle-caliber pistol for HD (except maybe the 300BO when suppressed), but I would quickly grab my MPX-K over a handgun or even the shotgun. For patrols around the house and barn, I really like the compactness, lighter weight, maneuverability, accuracy, and performance for these PDW-like "pistols".
Other than lack of concealability (they're not a realistic CCW), I see both pistol and rifle-caliber "pistols" with arm braces as a very viable choice from about 25meters out to 150 meters when it comes to the "why" between a conventional handgun or rifle. They're not a necessity by any means and I wouldn't choose one over a handgun for CCW, and I wouldn't choose one over a conventional rifle for serious social engagements or combat; however they do fit their niche extremely well and are a lot of fun to boot.
ROCK6
They are all fun, but "practical" or "suitable" really depends on the environment and purpose. I will state up front, none of these PDW type "pistols" are a replacement for a concealable pistol; nor are they are replacement for a carbine/rifle. They are very much niche firearms.
As to their application? They are less concealable than a conventional CCW, but quite often more concealable than a rifle. Pistol caliber versions are simply large handguns, but they do offer vastly better accuracy, a much more stable platform for fast follow up shots and multiple engagements, a better platform for lights and sights, and stretch realistic engagement ranges out to 100-150 meters with much better accuracy than a conventional handgun.
The rifle-caliber pistols do offer better ballistics, but give up a lot of range and penetration potential with the shorter barrels. Noise and blast are pretty severe in confined spaces. I'm still quite impressed with accuracy even if the terminal performance is degraded. I'm easily engaging silhouettes out to 200 meters consistently.
Both are good choices for suppressor hosts. I wouldn't use a rifle-caliber pistol for HD (except maybe the 300BO when suppressed), but I would quickly grab my MPX-K over a handgun or even the shotgun. For patrols around the house and barn, I really like the compactness, lighter weight, maneuverability, accuracy, and performance for these PDW-like "pistols".
Other than lack of concealability (they're not a realistic CCW), I see both pistol and rifle-caliber "pistols" with arm braces as a very viable choice from about 25meters out to 150 meters when it comes to the "why" between a conventional handgun or rifle. They're not a necessity by any means and I wouldn't choose one over a handgun for CCW, and I wouldn't choose one over a conventional rifle for serious social engagements or combat; however they do fit their niche extremely well and are a lot of fun to boot.
ROCK6
I would choose none of the above.
If I were on a tight budget I would choose Beretta CX4
Otherwise it would be the B&T GHM9
They are simply better in my opinion and experience, with the CX4 being an incredibly practical weapon.
The advantages of a PCC for the typical user in realistic situations far outweigh any perceived disadvantages, the most touted one being "9mm won't penetrate body armor".
The odds of an average citizen ever encountering a situation where they will need to penetrate body armor are astronomical. As in....you would be better off worrying where you're going to park your collection of private jets after you win the lottery....type odds.
I've have a 40 year law enforcement background plus military....
My 1st grab HD weapon is usually a PCC.
I’m getting a PTR 9CT when I move... mainly because I want an MP5 clone. Looked at the CZ, wasn’t interested in the SIG (want to also get suppressors, and hear that gas to the face is bad with it), and may build an AR pistol (probably either 5.56mm or .300).
Carbine wise, I have a CX4 (9mm, accepting either 92 or PX4 magazines; have both pistols), SUB-2000 (.40, with M&P magazines; have two M&Ps), and a D/I .45 AR (I built it off a Spikes lower, upper is from Macon Armory).
Only other pistol caliber carbine I own is a Ruger 44 (older tube-fed, with laminate stock and Weaver 4x scope), but is up for sale. Hurts me to do it, since I love the .44 Magnum... but I just do not have a use for it.
Carbine wise, I have a CX4 (9mm, accepting either 92 or PX4 magazines; have both pistols), SUB-2000 (.40, with M&P magazines; have two M&Ps), and a D/I .45 AR (I built it off a Spikes lower, upper is from Macon Armory).
Only other pistol caliber carbine I own is a Ruger 44 (older tube-fed, with laminate stock and Weaver 4x scope), but is up for sale. Hurts me to do it, since I love the .44 Magnum... but I just do not have a use for it.
Sig makes great guns, CZ makes great guns and would be easier to carry then the AR pistol. That is if the OP intends to carry their PDW. I tend to carry the M&P 9, and M&P 9c. One in the waistband one in the pocket. My bride started to buy tee shirts triple x tall, the tall hides guns better.
Screwball, there is always a use for a gun you just need to keep it long enough o figure out what it is.
Screwball, there is always a use for a gun you just need to keep it long enough o figure out what it is.
I've got a Sig 226 Tacops in 9mm I picked up exactly thinking along these lines.
It holds 20 rounds, has a nice SRT and a beavertail - you can really stay on target and pump rounds out quick with it (between the size of the pistol, the beavertail, the trigger, and it being a 9mm). Quite happy with it.
It holds 20 rounds, has a nice SRT and a beavertail - you can really stay on target and pump rounds out quick with it (between the size of the pistol, the beavertail, the trigger, and it being a 9mm). Quite happy with it.
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
Eh... if I am going to carry something bigger than a pistol and smaller than a carbine, I want a little more bang for the buck than 9mm. I’m thinking 10mm minimum.
AR pistol.
I have an even dozen AR pattern guns, no need to worry about which I'm holding, they all have the same manual of arms, and nearly identical controls.
This is the one I currently have setup as a house gun:
Pistol receiver with SBA3 brace, 8" barrel, Silencerco Octane, Vortex Spitfire
I have an even dozen AR pattern guns, no need to worry about which I'm holding, they all have the same manual of arms, and nearly identical controls.
This is the one I currently have setup as a house gun:
Pistol receiver with SBA3 brace, 8" barrel, Silencerco Octane, Vortex Spitfire
TruthTellers
New member
The 9mm packs a good punch from a PDW length barrel (8 inches or more) whilst minimizing recoil. There's a reason why the MP5, Uzi, PP-19 Bizon are all in 9mm and have 9 to 10 inch barrels and are used by police and military around the world.
If that setup didn't work, they'd all have switched to something bigger or more powerful. The reason I think we don't see more submachine guns or PDW's in calibers over 9mm because with a shoulder fired weapon, the number of hits on a target overcome the perceived low power of the ammo.
With a pistol, it's much harder to hit with, so that first hit has to have sufficient power to stop, disable, or significantly decrease the combat capability of the target in some capacity.
Cosmodragoon
New member
If I'm reading this correctly, you want something larger than a pistol but smaller than a rifle for defense in places where concealment isn't a primary issue. In that role, I don't have a problem with 9mm. As others have said, it does pick up a little velocity. As barrel length increases, 9mm can start behaving more like .357 Sig does from a pistol and .40 S&W can start behaving more like 10mm does from a pistol. You also get the benefit of light recoil and it is less loud than .223 or more powerful rifle rounds.
The question I'd ask is if you can't get by with a carbine. Versus a carbine, how much advantage do you get out of the "bigger than a pistol but smaller than a rifle without sending you through the unconstitutional hassle of obtaining permission for an SBR" class of firearm?
The question I'd ask is if you can't get by with a carbine. Versus a carbine, how much advantage do you get out of the "bigger than a pistol but smaller than a rifle without sending you through the unconstitutional hassle of obtaining permission for an SBR" class of firearm?
If you look around you may find an analysis of an FBI study, which was comparing results of real shootings (by the FBI) with 9mm and .40. At some point they'd switched to .40 but if I remember right they decided to go back to 9mm as the standard...
In short they found no discernible difference in the actual stopping results of those 2 in the field; the determination was that shot placement so far outweighed caliber (again talking 9mm versus .40 only) that 9mm was better for its capacity and I believe lower recoil.
In short they found no discernible difference in the actual stopping results of those 2 in the field; the determination was that shot placement so far outweighed caliber (again talking 9mm versus .40 only) that 9mm was better for its capacity and I believe lower recoil.
With regard to common handgun calibers used in typical self-defense situations ...
Practice
Placement
Penetration
Always trumps caliber