What would it take to push you to Rebellion?

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First of all I doubt that a revolution could ever happen short of the federal government declaring that future elections are unnecessary and will no longer be held. Even the inevitable national declaration of bankruptcy will not be enough to trigger revolution, only the election of a national strongman.

A far more likely possibility (probability?) is the secession of several states, perhaps even the majority of states. There is already (as reported by Glen Beck) an active, if small, secessionist movement operating in all 50 states. This is a possibility because the vast majority of federal troops could no longer be persuaded to open fire on Americans. Federal law enforcement absolutely, the vast majority of the army and marine corps no way. And if pressed to do so there is a good chance that many would simply change sides bringing their arms and equipment with them. Many things could trigger such a movement including gun bans, a defacto ban on opposition media, the growing domination of all 50 states by a handful of states, and/or a national economic collapse.
 
This is a possibility because the vast majority of federal troops could no longer be persuaded to open fire on Americans. Federal law enforcement absolutely, the vast majority of the army and marine corps no way. And if pressed to do so there is a good chance that many would simply change sides bringing their arms and equipment with them. Many things could trigger such a movement including gun bans, a defacto ban on opposition media, the growing domination of all 50 states by a handful of states, and/or a national economic collapse.
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The political collapse will happen when the military is sent to bring arms agains US citizens to impose some unconstitutional law on a large scale. A large (heavily armed) part will refuse, setting up a battle (figuratively if not literally) between federal law enforcement and their loyalists vs. the rest of the military and irregulars.
 
A tyrannical government constantly meddling in my private life, interfering with my business, and taxing me into poverty.
 
The only way a revolution would succeed would be if a fairly good sized prortion of the military sided with the revolutionaries. I could only see that happening if what the military was ordered to do violated the constitution in an egregious manner. It would probably require a bunch of general or flag officers in order to make that happen.

The military oath requires two things:

1. support and defend the constituion

2. obey the orders of the president and the officers appointed over you

I don't think the order of those two things in the oath is insignificant.
 
A revolt will never happen. The people will follow like sheep.

In another twenty years of public education and liberal mass media, the people will willingly repeal the 2nd Amendment as outdated and a danger to the public.

They are already watching the 1st Amendment fade away. The news media is in a love affair with the current administration and reports only what they want. Once the democrats bring back the "Fairness Doctrine", any dissent in the media will be silenced.

If the news media can convince the population that it is their "patriotic duty" to pay taxes, they can convince them of anything.
 
I for one cannot see that happening in any way in the near of foreseeable future. I think the system of government we were given and the maturity of our democratic institutions would prevent such a thing. I often do not agree with the government but I feel that my vote and the votes of other count and time and time again (like the recent Illinois Governor impreachment) the system works. Not perfect and mistakes are made but in the end there is no better system in the world. I don't think a revolution would produce a better system.

Another view of the "Battle of Athens" may be found here: http://tennesseeencyclopedia.net/imagegallery.php?EntryID=A043

I quote a pertinent part:
Although recalled fifty years later with a certain amount of local pride, the battle of Athens initially proved a source of embarrassment, and many residents abhorred the violent, extralegal actions of the veterans. The image of gun-wielding hillbilly ex-soldiers shooting it out with the Cantrell-Mansfield "thugs" that blazed across national and regional newspaper headlines enhanced East Tennessee's reputation for violence and lawlessness. The Good Government League, empowered by the veterans' victory, scored few successes in its efforts to eradicate the vice, corruption, and arbitrary rule of machine government.
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The only way a revolution would succeed would be if a fairly good sized prortion of the military sided with the revolutionaries. I could only see that happening if what the military was ordered to do violated the constitution in an egregious manner. It would probably require a bunch of general or flag officers in order to make that happen.
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It will *start* in the military, as the reaction to an egregiously unlawful order. And it won't be a revolution, it will be an implosion. Perhaps a revolution will rise out of the ashes, or perhaps not.
 
The problem with this is if a majority of the population wishes to curtail your rights are you ok with that.
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I don't believe I ever said anything like that. My point was that as long as representation accurately reflected the wishes of its constituents you were better off using the political system to fight your battles as a practical matter. You may very well be unjustly oppressed, as happened repeatedly during the Civil Rights movement of the 50s and 60s; but picking up arms and revolting in that environment will mean you lose; because if you lack the support to win politically, you almost certainly lack the support to win by force of arms.

As long as representation accurately mirrors public sentiment, use of force is not a winning strategy (whether that public sentiment is fair or not). If use of force IS a winning strategy, then you don't need to resort to it because you already have the numbers you need and a way to win without destruction of infrastructure or lives.
 
A tyrannical government constantly meddling in my private life, interfering with my business, and taxing me into poverty.
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I am talking concrete things. Not flimsy crap you might read in a communist pamphlet. I said in a previous thread here that if the economy was so bad I could not go to the store, buy a can of compressed whipped cream tilt my head back and take a shot the gov't would feel my wraith. Now that was obviously a comical post, but if the economy got so bad I couldn't do that enough others things would be wrong it might be true.

Lets have it, what are some concrete things you would not put up with? Whether they have already happened or not.

In response to others off topic posts:
The only way I can possibly see the United states getting back on track without some sort of violent conflict is to limit the vote to those who foot the bill. As long as people living off of tax revenue control as much of the vote as they do, we will not see change.

The revolution would succeed if Rifleman, like the people on this board, get behind it. The US has an extremely poorly guarded infrastructure. Imagine the effect of chaining 3-4 cars on certain exit ramps in large cities. If you blocked traffic in two or three places strategically during rush hour you could gridlock whole metropolises for hours at almost no cost. The economic damage would be immense if done in the morning. Very little loss of life very little cost to the perpetrators. Our military is extremely dependent on having secure rear operating positions to stage from. This luxury would vanish. Put a 50 cal round through the right places on a jet and you are looking at hundreds of thousands of dollars in damage. Coordinate it so that you target a low wear part that is not all that available and one sniper can ground a squadron for weeks. The luxuries the US military has had for the last 50 years has left it with a huge blindside.
 
A tyrannical government constantly meddling in my private life, interfering with my business, and taxing me into poverty.
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Sounds like Scandinavia. Except there, it's a friendly government meddling, interfering and taxing. They're doing it for your own good.

Get used to hearing that phrase. I've seen some real parallels between the semi-socialist welfare-state system in Denmark and the stuff folks would like to see done here.

I don't think we're past the tipping point yet. The question remains, "what IS the tipping point?" Will we see it coming in time?

I won't discuss means or plans. Yes, it's easy to disrupt infrastructure, and yes, I've read Unintended Consequences. Thing is, if I were inclined do any of those things, there would be no turning back. I would be remembered not as a Patrick Henry, but as a Timothy McVeigh.

Remember how deftly the Clinton administration turned "militia" into an insult. The general public still thinks Ruby Ridge was about white supremacist nutcases, and that Waco was about religious weirdos.

Still want a revolution? :o

So, back to the OP. The only answer is, I just don't know. I hope I see it coming in time.
 
Bartholomew Roberts said:
As long as representation accurately mirrors public sentiment, use of force is not a winning strategy (whether that public sentiment is fair or not). If use of force IS a winning strategy, then you don't need to resort to it because you already have the numbers you need and a way to win without destruction of infrastructure or lives.
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This is a well reasoned post. Thanks Bart.

As to some of this other stuff, I know we want to share ideas and I like that but keep in mind that some of this rhetoric about shooting up airliners and Unintended Consequences, Waco and Ruby Ridge being government plots to squelch our freedoms is the stuff that makes gun owners look dangerous to the non-gun owners who vote and affect the laws we get stuck with. Want to help pass the AWB? Then haul out and start quoting Unintended Consequences and it will pass for sure. The government and the USA is not our enemy. We own it if we stay involved.
 
I am shocked!

I never thought I would read such a thread in this forum!! The thought of rebellion against the Stars and Bars is so foreign to me that I was overwhelmed by those whom proposed it.
To me rebellion = Chaos, and Chaos = the stopping of the wheels that move our nation, a thought that chills me to the core.

Hopefully, those of you who advocate such a course of action, have not experienced Chaos and are simply unaware of the conquests. I have viewed the Chaos first hand and in my mind it would mean an end to America. To you I wish you would hold off until I have passed on, I am not ready for a second viewing of a world on fire.
Good Luck & Be Safe
 
johnwilliamson062 said:
The revolution would succeed if Rifleman, like the people on this board, get behind it. The US has an extremely poorly guarded infrastructure. Imagine the effect of chaining 3-4 cars on certain exit ramps in large cities. If you blocked traffic in two or three places strategically during rush hour you could gridlock whole metropolises for hours at almost no cost. The economic damage would be immense if done in the morning. Very little loss of life very little cost to the perpetrators. Our military is extremely dependent on having secure rear operating positions to stage from. This luxury would vanish. Put a 50 cal round through the right places on a jet and you are looking at hundreds of thousands of dollars in damage. Coordinate it so that you target a low wear part that is not all that available and one sniper can ground a squadron for weeks. The luxuries the US military has had for the last 50 years has left it with a huge blindside.
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When the OP and thread starter goes from, "Where is the Line?" to point out ways to make it happen... You just know the thread has ended.
 
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