What to look for on a Enfield

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BoogieMan

New member
My son wants to use an Enfield for deer hunting. We will be doing some sporterizing (scope and stock work) to the rifle just to make it a practical hunter. I have a jungle carbine but it does not seem to be a very accurate rifle from the start. A thorow barrel cleaning helped but still seems to wonder.
When looking at auctions, what should I look for to ensure a good shooter for my project?
Blueing and stock condition doesnt matter to us. Plan to refinish stock and duracoat barrel and action.
 
You may not agree with me, but I would not sporterize an original SMLE unless you want to seriously depreciate it.

The SMLE is a good hunting rifle in its original configuration.

I have no real objections to SMLE sporters. If I had to have one, I would buy one of many listed on the Auction sites. They sell for much less than unaltered SMLEs
 
What exactly is the Mo5's problem? You have the potential for a great "sporter" right there? It may have a simple bedding problem which is easier to fix than you might think. Most Enfields are designed for a full length stock. Fitting a short sporter type involves center bedding, something most Enfield barrels hate. That may even be the problem with your Carbine!

If you still want to go with a military rifle then I'd suggest picking up a non boogered sporter & working with that. I'm not a purist collector or anything but if you're going to restock you might as well get a $125 "Bubba" than a $350 "original" & save the difference in price!

A No 4 will adapt better than a No1 (SMLE) the sights & barrel configuration lend better to a sporter than the earlier No1 MkIII(*) one with its spring tension bore bedding & open sight with the short sight radius. It is also easier to scope a No4 than a No1 (SMLE).

1: All matching serial numbers, bolt (on the rear of the bolt handle) action on the wrist band or left receiver flat, Magazine & forend.

2: No giant oversize chambers, L-E's are (in)famous for them & it'll shorten case life drastically.

3: Not a 2-grove bore, there's nothing wrong with 2-grove bores in general but many, not all, Enfields hate boat tail bullets. The 2-grove ones seem to be particularly sensitive to the problem.

4: Bore condition. Most of the barrels have fired a lot of cordite & corrosive ammo. Make sure yours was taken good care of by previous owners.

5: Bolt head number (on the outside edge of the locking tab that hangs to the right hand side in the bolt guide rail) Lower is better, be suspicious of high numbers as the body may be approaching its useful lifespan.

6: Muzzle condition. Nicks or out of round (a common problem with rifles cleaned with a pull through repeatedly) those will make it a poor quality shooter. Do a "bullet test" against a known good muzzle to check.

7: Internet rumors. Most are rubbish at best, stick to facts you can verify.:D
 
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Even a ratty Jungle Carbine goes for four or five hundred bucks anymore. You can get a sportered No. 1 or No. 4 for $150.

If money is tight, sell your No. 5 and buy him something. Put the excess in his college fund.
 
I have a Enfield Mk 4 No 1:
enfield303closeup.jpg


I wouldn't hesitate to take it hunting, it isn't too heavy and accurate as hell!
 
The good news is that you can get a pre-sporterized Enfield nice and cheap, and then make whatever changes you want to it. Less expensive than buying an original intact example, AND you don't mess up an original in the process (win!). Auctions are one source; I would also check pawn shops.

The thing to look for, IMO, is a No4 with an aperture sight, instead of a No1 SMLE with the rear leaf sight.
 
THere are a bunch of nice looking enfield sporters on gunbroker right now. You'll get it cheaper and not muck up one of the remaining military configuration ones. Sure there are plenty out there, but they are a finite resource...
 
If you do go the pre-Bubba'd route make sure the original Bubba didn't do something horrible & non repairable.

The variable quality, & expertise of Bubba's efforts is legendary.:eek:
 
I should have mentioned that my jungle carbine has been modified/sportified/bubbad at some point. When looking at the below pic. Mine would no longer have the top wood. The funnel on the muzzle and the wings on the front sight have been removed. My stock is now stained red.
jungle%2Bcarbne.jpg


I will see if I can get some pics of my actual rifle when I get home. This is a random pic from internet.
 
"...will be doing some sporterizing..." You will be turning a $500 rifle into a $200 rifle. However, before you do anything, check the headspace. Thousands of Lee-Enfields have been assembled out of parts bins with zero QC. Not even ensuring the rifle is safe to shoot.
Fixing bad headspace is easy. You just change bolt heads until you have safe headspace. That'd be not closing completely on a Field gauge. Better if it doesn't close on a No-Go though. No. 4 and No. 5 Rifles(No. 1 parts do not fit either) have a number on the bolt head. Try one number higher. They only go from 0 to 3, so if you have a 3 now, you're toast. Bolt heads aren't exactly easy to find either. They run about $15 to $25 each depending on where you find 'em. Headspace gauges come from Brownell's.
"...does not seem to be a very accurate rifle..." You need to slug the barrel. Lee-Enfield barrels can measure from .311" to .315" and still be considered OK. Over .315", the barrel is shot out.
Factory ammo uses .311" bullets or .312" bullets. Nobody makes anything bigger.
"...The funnel on the muzzle..." Is a flash hider.
 
Yes, the days of "sporterization" are over, and as others have noted, "sporterization" usually involves cosmetic changes that overlook more serious problems. Probably be more economical to get one the Gibbs "Jungle Carbines."
 
Lots of 1/2 truths there, remember me saying about interknet info?

That'd be not closing completely on a Field gauge.
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"FIELD: A firearm failing the NO-GO spec can be tested on the slightly more forgiving FIELD gauge. Military chamber specifications are generally looser than commercial firearms, giving them a bit of tolerance for adverse conditions such as dirty chambers, weather extremes, etc. A firearm passing FIELD spec (not closing fully on the gauge) is generally considered safe to fire."

Better if it doesn't close on a No-Go
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"NO-GO: This gauge is used to check for excessive headspace. If a firearm closes on the NO-GO gauge it is an indication that the weapon MAY not be safe to fire."

Note: there are 2 different "standards" for headspace, something the poster forgot. If you use American SAAMI gauges to check a British rifle it'll probably fail, even if its good. For some reason SAAMI decided to apply their own standards & got it wrong! The only 2 gauges needed for a Lee Enfield are a "NO Good" & a "Good". The "NO Good" says the barrel was incorrectly installed & is too small. The "Good" says the headspace is over 0.074". , The maximum allowable, if the bolt closes completely on it with no extractor or firing pin fitted. If the bolt only partially closes on the 0.074" whatever you call it you're fine.


You need to slug the barrel. Lee-Enfield barrels can measure from .311" to .315" and still be considered OK. Over .315", the barrel is shot out.
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Its not entirely true, you can use cast bullets, correctly sized. If the muzzle is damaged or the throat is eroded that is a problem, but slugging a bore won't tell you that, just what is the smallest part of the bore the slug was driven through.

Check if the entire barrel on your carbine (except the first 3/4" is free floating, it should be unlike regular "Hunting rifles"). Nothing messes up enfield accuracy like bedding as though it was a Mauser.
 
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tahunua001 said it very well.

The huge number of "sporterized";) Enfield #4s and #5s is one reason for the fairly high prices of the nicer, surviving examples.

One reason they don't cost even more is because of today's .303 ammo prices.
 
Springfield IS a Mauser. (well a development of one).
Personally I think both have advantages & disadvantages.

I Prefer the Lee because of the actions smoothness & speed.
 
Unless you can find an Enfield that someone has already foolishly destroyed a major part of it's value with a Bubba job, DON'T DO IT!!!
You gain nothing in accuracy, and destroy the history, and value of a classic old war horse.
 
BoogieMan, check which parts of your #5 are modified, and if any of that is irreversible. If you have a correct (with weight relief cuts) #5 receiver with full length barrel, getting the missing flash hider, front sight and hand guard will be easy, and produce a $600 #5. On the other hand you might have a full size rifle "cut to size" (explaining the missing front sight etc), in that case, happy hunting.
 
The SMLE is a good hunting rifle in its original configuration.
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I would disagree on this, to a point. I don't think a GI condition milsurp is a good hunting rifle. Adequate, but not good, simply because a hunting rifle does not need the strength and weight needed for combat.

The biggest single reason so many were sporterized was to make them better hunting rifles. And the single most often done thing was to get rid of "excess" wood & metal to save weight.

Shaving a couple or 3 pounds off an adequate rifle was very appealing to many people, and often was the difference between something they felt was ok, and something they felt was "good".

The main reason it was done so often was that the rifles were common, and nearly as cheap as dirt.

That is not the case today.

If you want a project gun to work on, to turn into a decent, or even a good sporting rifle, the racks are full of them. Taking an unaltered milsurp and sporterizing it today is simply a waste of money, and currently available commercial guns are not only better economic sense, they are much more likely to be better shooting rifles, as well.
 
Is the Enfield as good as the Mauser or Springfield?
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they're different. they are much simpler, despite a much more complicated stock design(4 piece wood instead of 2 piece wood) and a rotating bolt head it's actually a simpler design. the mauser is perhaps more robust, but for any abuse you could possibly give it(unintentionally) it is more than strong enough to handle it. accuracy-wise, the enfield has a general repuation for being slightly less accurate but that is likely due as much to ammo selection and individual rifle condition as anything else.

the enfield number 4 was my first milsurp, and the one that started it all. it is still one of my favorites. I prefer it to springfields and all the common 98 style mausers. the cock on close mausers and their derivatives are more enjoyable in my personal opinion but against the common ones I'd take an enfield any day of the week.


as for configuration and hunting. the enfield in original condition is an adequate hunting rifle but I wouldn't call it great. I hunt with old military rifles all the time, most in original configuration. they are heavier than most modern rifles. some have worn out bores decreasing accuracy and hampering their ability to shoot modern hunting ammo well(compounded by the fact that many modern hunting loads are different bullet profiles and heavier weights than what these rifles were designed to shoot). the inability to mount a scope without some modification to the design limits their ability to be shot accurately(although inherent accuracy remains the same). I love to hunt with old milsurp rifles but I won't say they are just as good as a ruger M77 or other modern bolt gun. for an adult, I would say it is nothing that can't be overcome, for a kid however, I would recommend something lighter.
 
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