TheKlawMan
Moderator
Yep, you are right, Alaska. Since last year it is legal to possess, but not to shoot, a firearm in Yosemite. http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/weapons.htm
What to look for in a bear defense shotgun?
- Thread starter Rustle in the Bushes
- Start date
Rustle in the Bushes
New member
heheheh I bloody love these threads. We actually ended up going out to the lake last week and decided to bring a fat can of UDAP spray. Went a whole week without a bear attack, what a tragedy I was ****** I wasted 40 dollars on bear spray. Ahh well, we managed to spot what was at least a 5-600 pound griz on the drive back to Alberta.
Despite stringing a package of hotdogs and two burgers to my hoody and running around in front of him he just ignored me and bit his leg....
seriously though it was a damn treat, apparently its so cold up in the mountains this year that its the best year for spotting bears and sadly the worst year for the bears themselves. Just makes me want to have proper spray when I head out that much more.
Despite stringing a package of hotdogs and two burgers to my hoody and running around in front of him he just ignored me and bit his leg....
seriously though it was a damn treat, apparently its so cold up in the mountains this year that its the best year for spotting bears and sadly the worst year for the bears themselves. Just makes me want to have proper spray when I head out that much more.
At the ranges you would be shooting at a bear for self protection, ("point blank range" as you put it) you would be so close that there would not be enough time/space for buckshot to open up into much of a pattern. So you might as well just go with slugs, for their much heavier impact and stopping power. I have not much faith in the ability of buckshot to penetrate the heavy bones, hide and chest muscles of a bear coming head on.
TheKlawMan
Moderator
Here is an interesting article on Alaskan bears and how to act around them. I like the part about laying down and playing dead if it is a brown bear but vigourously fighting back if it is a black bear.
The part about the scent of bear spray attracting bears is most reassuring. I also like that it can be effective at a range of 6 to 8 yards, but if the wind is against you your ****ed.
It recommends a 12 gauge or a .300 magnum rifle; not a pistol, if you are going to use a firearm for bear protection.
Does anyone really think it a good idea to let a bear get within 8 yards?
The part about the scent of bear spray attracting bears is most reassuring. I also like that it can be effective at a range of 6 to 8 yards, but if the wind is against you your ****ed.
It recommends a 12 gauge or a .300 magnum rifle; not a pistol, if you are going to use a firearm for bear protection.
Does anyone really think it a good idea to let a bear get within 8 yards?
Bamashooter
New member
I have an 870 Express Super Mag 3.5'' that I bought in 98'. I shoot the remington slugger slugs using a improved cylinder choke tube out to 75-80 yrds pretty accurately. I have alot of 3.5'' 00buck that I dont really like to shoot but I would be willing to bet would be a good bear stopper. The way I see it just go with what you know how to use effectively and whatever you like in the way of action.
columbia_shotguneer
New member
I see alot of anti-buckshot literature in here(directed towards the appropriate direction), so I will just add its the person's right to choose what he/her wants to defend themselves with in a particular, dangerous situation. I won't get into a pee match on buckshot v/s slugs, you choose.
Never lived in Bear country long enough to get worried. Friends have and I never heard anything bad about a shotgun or rifle for bears. When I did hunt bears in Alaska I carried a .375 H&H and a.44 mag a back up. I think a shotgun with slugs or 00 buck 000 buck should be good enough for anything.
The biggest thing is shot placement and number of shots.
Mace
The biggest thing is shot placement and number of shots.
Mace
The best test of buckshot vs slug, is to get a target at say 20 yards, and let go with buckshot - see how many pellets actually hit your target.
People who have had to shoot bears tell me that one or two pellets of buckshot will not stop a charging bear at that range. You need to smash bones and penetrate vitals. Slug is the only way.
People who have had to shoot bears tell me that one or two pellets of buckshot will not stop a charging bear at that range. You need to smash bones and penetrate vitals. Slug is the only way.
I live up in Northern Idaho as well and the grizzly bears are spreading out from the Selkerks down into Couer d'Alene are and St. Joes as evidence by two bears killed in the last couple of years. One was 10 miles from Couer d'Alene in Rose lake.
My choice is the .44 magnum close to town where racking a rifle over your shoulder would look strange and my .444 Marlin as my woods gun. I have it set up so it feels like a 20 ga so I don't get the busted shoulder you get from a 12 ga with top line slugs. With my Buffalo Bore 335 gr hardcast bullets, it should get the job done and is much more powerful than the .454, .460 and .500 in handgun.
Pepper spray is a good adjunct but should not be your only defense.
My choice is the .44 magnum close to town where racking a rifle over your shoulder would look strange and my .444 Marlin as my woods gun. I have it set up so it feels like a 20 ga so I don't get the busted shoulder you get from a 12 ga with top line slugs. With my Buffalo Bore 335 gr hardcast bullets, it should get the job done and is much more powerful than the .454, .460 and .500 in handgun.
Pepper spray is a good adjunct but should not be your only defense.
I have a place on Priest Lake (grew up there)... and used to carry a .41 mag (still do), but after a couple of close encounters with grizzlies, I began to feel less confident of using a .41 to defend myself or family when picking berries.
We also have had a couple of grizzly shootings in the past couple of years, mostly related to yahoos feeding the bears then the habituated bears causing problems. One of my close friends is one of the local conservation officers and is the one who unfortunately has had to kill problem grizzlies.
We also have had a couple of grizzly shootings in the past couple of years, mostly related to yahoos feeding the bears then the habituated bears causing problems. One of my close friends is one of the local conservation officers and is the one who unfortunately has had to kill problem grizzlies.
SurplusShooter
New member
It is fine for deffese agnist bears.
Lets keep the OP alive and put some things in perspective. Buckshot is called buckshot because it was designed to be used for bucks, as in deer. What is the biggest deer you've ever seen a picture of? Was it 12 feet tall on its hind legs? No it wasn't.
The largest bear on record was 12' tall on its hind legs. I am going to pack a gun and ammo that will kill that 12' bear. Are you going to encounter a 12' bear? I doubt it so highly I'd bet every dollar I've earned on it. Would you bet your life and the livelihood of your family members left behind on it? But we aren't playing statistics, packing for statistics mean no one on this board should carry anything at all ever as according to statistics most of us will be fine. We already planning for the improbable so I would make sure I have myself covered.
I assume you are talking brown bear country as you didn't specify so i will assume the worst. I recommend packing slugs that were mentioned earlier and no less. As has also been said you want penetration, as much as you can find. Your shoulder will no doubt take a beating but in a life/death situation you wont notice it and I'd rather be sore than dead.
People post "XYZ is sufficient or enough" If I was heading for bear country I dont just want enough. I want too much. I am not trying to eat it or save a hide, I want to blow holes in sh*t, big ones.
The largest bear on record was 12' tall on its hind legs. I am going to pack a gun and ammo that will kill that 12' bear. Are you going to encounter a 12' bear? I doubt it so highly I'd bet every dollar I've earned on it. Would you bet your life and the livelihood of your family members left behind on it? But we aren't playing statistics, packing for statistics mean no one on this board should carry anything at all ever as according to statistics most of us will be fine. We already planning for the improbable so I would make sure I have myself covered.
I assume you are talking brown bear country as you didn't specify so i will assume the worst. I recommend packing slugs that were mentioned earlier and no less. As has also been said you want penetration, as much as you can find. Your shoulder will no doubt take a beating but in a life/death situation you wont notice it and I'd rather be sore than dead.
People post "XYZ is sufficient or enough" If I was heading for bear country I dont just want enough. I want too much. I am not trying to eat it or save a hide, I want to blow holes in sh*t, big ones.
Let's also keep the intent of the original post in mind. Shotgun. A given. Sights. Questioned. An answer: bead. Why? The discussion is also about north-country bear defense. Recommended: 000 3" Magnum Plated Buffered Buckshot or good ol' Slugs.
So birdshot is for birds. Buckshot is only for bucks. And so Slugs must be for... slugs? When a buck stands up on ITS hind legs, how tall is it? Taller than a Black Bear which buckshot is fine for, right? Slugs are, what, like 25cm or so?
So birdshot is for birds. Buckshot is only for bucks. And so Slugs must be for... slugs? When a buck stands up on ITS hind legs, how tall is it? Taller than a Black Bear which buckshot is fine for, right? Slugs are, what, like 25cm or so?
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mattamuskeet
New member
Peter Hathaway Capstick wrote on the subject of shotgun self defense and selection of shot size. His conclusion was that the largest shot is usually NOT the best choice. For example, 2 3/4" load of 00 contains 636 grains of lead and about 2400 ft/lbs of energy. A load of #1 buck has 800 grains of lead and 3000 ft/lbs.
He also states that he "almost decapitated a lioness with a 20 gauge load of 7 1/2 or 8 shot..." at close range.
The article was in Guns & Ammo, December 1983; and is also in his book "Last Horizons".
Food for thought.
He also states that he "almost decapitated a lioness with a 20 gauge load of 7 1/2 or 8 shot..." at close range.
The article was in Guns & Ammo, December 1983; and is also in his book "Last Horizons".
Food for thought.
For a big bruin you do need initial penetration capability which will not stop so quickly. Everyone probably understands this. But it limits the availabilty of most effective rounds.
The multiple, perfectly round, plated, heavy .36 balls from two posts ago should punch, break, and burst through what it has to and continue to do damage as they travel a couple of FEET through their target, working particularly mercilessly together as well as independently to stop the threat.
If you are confident you will hit your target where you need to, defending yourself from a brown bear attack, go with the slug. I think the slug is better but only under ideal circumstances more atuned to hunting, not defense. That's just me...
The multiple, perfectly round, plated, heavy .36 balls from two posts ago should punch, break, and burst through what it has to and continue to do damage as they travel a couple of FEET through their target, working particularly mercilessly together as well as independently to stop the threat.
If you are confident you will hit your target where you need to, defending yourself from a brown bear attack, go with the slug. I think the slug is better but only under ideal circumstances more atuned to hunting, not defense. That's just me...