Para Bellum
New member
shoot his brain stem. That's one reason why training pin point accuracy under stress is so important.
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What to do if loved one held hostage
- Thread starter Freetacos
- Start date
RedneckFur
New member
If the BG has a gun, and its against your loved ones head... wouldnt you be afriad that either out of nervousness, or in keeping his word, he'd shoot your loved one the moment you drew your gun, and then try to turn his weapon on you? Sure, you'd probably kill him, but you'd very likely loose a husband/wife, or even your child in the process.
This might sound dumb but what if you switched places with the BG.
Would you wanna kill your hostage , thats your insurance.
Althow if you have a hostage your probably pretty desperate aneyway , Its not worth the chance.
Would you be better off if the BG knew you were armed or not?
If he sees your gun he might demand it (not cool) or he might harm the hostage or say F this and run , Id run.
Would you wanna kill your hostage , thats your insurance.
Althow if you have a hostage your probably pretty desperate aneyway , Its not worth the chance.
Would you be better off if the BG knew you were armed or not?
If he sees your gun he might demand it (not cool) or he might harm the hostage or say F this and run , Id run.
See, that works in the movies because even though the hero's gun is nowhere near aimed at the BG's head, the BG has a squib charge of fake blood under a latex prosthetic on their head, timed to the gun's discharge.
Now, in REAL life, you'd be more likely to pull an inadvertent William S. Burroughs if the bad guy moved at all.
Uh huh.
One question...
Have you ever heard of a "pons" shot?
To those who express doubt at their ability to do this, all I can say is--practice, practice, practice.
Train, and train HARD.
My wife and I have actually discussed this. No matter what, I don't surrender my gun- then we both die. If the opportunity presents, she will duck and I will shoot. Given that I always have Mr. Steyr on my person at home, the odds of the BG taking my wife hostage are reduced. The odds of him getting more than 10 feet into the house aren't on his side if I am in a position to see him enter. If there's time to talk I tell him if he harms her I will kill him (and his friends if he is accompanied by other losers), if he leaves he will live. But under no circumstances do I let him have my gun or misunderstand that he will wake up in Hell immediately after any harm to my loved one(s). And yes, I got to try some hostage shots at FAS-3 and I have the confidence that at inside the house ranges I can put him on the trailer.
I'd say the secret code word and my wife would self destruct (fembot don'tcha know).
Seriously my wife and I have actually discussed this sort of thing before and come up with a few options depending on what the hostage taker has or is doing.
"Faint" and drag him down.
Duck when she hears the code word from me that means I'm ready.
Bite, kick, scratch, and then get the hell out of the way if at all possible.
Probably none of these is perfect and any number of flaws can be found but at least we've considered the possibility and tried to find some response.
Seriously my wife and I have actually discussed this sort of thing before and come up with a few options depending on what the hostage taker has or is doing.
"Faint" and drag him down.
Duck when she hears the code word from me that means I'm ready.
Bite, kick, scratch, and then get the hell out of the way if at all possible.
Probably none of these is perfect and any number of flaws can be found but at least we've considered the possibility and tried to find some response.
David Armstrong
Moderator
Well, we know one thing for certain--your loved one is still alive for some reason. Let's not upset that dynamic first and foremost. You certainly don't want to attack/shoot the BG if there is the slightest chance that will make the situation worse. Find out why we have a hostage, what it takes to resolve that situation with minimal violence, and go from there. Once again, there is a reason LE doesn't shoot the hostage-taker right off the bat, and saves that for the last resort.
One of the best tactics I have heard for this situation (IF it can be employed) is to begin circling the bg and the hostage. Circle clockwise if the weapon is in his right hand, . . . opposite if in the left.
Two things happen here, . . . you control him by making him move, . . . keeping him off balance to a certain degree. AND you buy time for the LEO's or other help to arrive.
A third thought also comes in, . . . three people are walking, hostage, bg, and good guy. No one can afford to look down to where their feet are going, . . . if it keeps up for any amount of time, . . . someone will trip and fall. Two out of three of them are the bg and the hostage, . . . allowing the good guy a good shot if he is ready for it.
On a personal note, . . . if the slug has taken my son or my wife or anyone I love hostage, . . . and I have my weapon, . . . he will not leave with them. Period.
That is a decision I made a long time ago, . . . and I have not changed my mind on it. I'll take the first good shot I get, . . . if it is less than 25 feet, . . . I only need half his head, a shoulder, a knee, a hip, . . . 230 grains of lead making a .45 hole somewhere in his body, . . . might distract him enough that we can end this here, . . . now. If not, . . . then he will just plain have to shoot me.
I've got 9 rounds to throw at him, . . . and I'll have a reload in my off hand if I can, . . . he just may get tired of trying to duck all of them.
May God bless,
Dwight
Two things happen here, . . . you control him by making him move, . . . keeping him off balance to a certain degree. AND you buy time for the LEO's or other help to arrive.
A third thought also comes in, . . . three people are walking, hostage, bg, and good guy. No one can afford to look down to where their feet are going, . . . if it keeps up for any amount of time, . . . someone will trip and fall. Two out of three of them are the bg and the hostage, . . . allowing the good guy a good shot if he is ready for it.
On a personal note, . . . if the slug has taken my son or my wife or anyone I love hostage, . . . and I have my weapon, . . . he will not leave with them. Period.
That is a decision I made a long time ago, . . . and I have not changed my mind on it. I'll take the first good shot I get, . . . if it is less than 25 feet, . . . I only need half his head, a shoulder, a knee, a hip, . . . 230 grains of lead making a .45 hole somewhere in his body, . . . might distract him enough that we can end this here, . . . now. If not, . . . then he will just plain have to shoot me.
I've got 9 rounds to throw at him, . . . and I'll have a reload in my off hand if I can, . . . he just may get tired of trying to duck all of them.
May God bless,
Dwight
Hardtarget
New member
The standard agreement with my wife is for her to close her eyes, let ber breath out, and go limp...like she just faints...because the shot is coming right now. No talk, no "lets make a deal", no hesitation.
If I'm the hostage and she has the gun...all I can say is "PITY THE FOOL"...'cause he is dead.
This is nothing to joke about. Very gut wrenching decisions must be made in split seconds with no "do overs". Not a thing I ever want to go through.
Mark.
If I'm the hostage and she has the gun...all I can say is "PITY THE FOOL"...'cause he is dead.
This is nothing to joke about. Very gut wrenching decisions must be made in split seconds with no "do overs". Not a thing I ever want to go through.
Mark.
In my home it's really simple.
You are going to lower your gun, walk out that door, alone, without hurting anybody. You get a free pass. But if you hurt anyone in this house, by God, I will kill you where you stand. Your choice. Do you want to live? Or Die? Decide, right now.
As soon as my loved one is free, they get out of the way. If he even looks like he's going to try something, he gets full of holes. If he's already hurt people, especially my wife or myself, he may get full of holes anyway.
Never give up your gun.
Never take your weapon off of him.
You and/or family members do not leave/relocate with the bad guy.
Strive to stay in control.
Give him opportunities to depart, alive, preferrably unarmed. If he wants to take the hostage as a shield, no deal as long as he has a gun. I won't shoot through my wife/son/daughter/etc to get him but he doesn't get the chance to shoot them once he's at the door ready to run.
Worst Case Scenario:
He's using a loved one as a shield while shooting at you. Maybe while trying to reach an exit. Maybe while trying to get closer. If he's trying to flee, there's a 50-50 chance he'll shoot the family member when he gets out the door. At that point, you do the best you can to put him down.
You are going to lower your gun, walk out that door, alone, without hurting anybody. You get a free pass. But if you hurt anyone in this house, by God, I will kill you where you stand. Your choice. Do you want to live? Or Die? Decide, right now.
As soon as my loved one is free, they get out of the way. If he even looks like he's going to try something, he gets full of holes. If he's already hurt people, especially my wife or myself, he may get full of holes anyway.
Never give up your gun.
Never take your weapon off of him.
You and/or family members do not leave/relocate with the bad guy.
Strive to stay in control.
Give him opportunities to depart, alive, preferrably unarmed. If he wants to take the hostage as a shield, no deal as long as he has a gun. I won't shoot through my wife/son/daughter/etc to get him but he doesn't get the chance to shoot them once he's at the door ready to run.
Worst Case Scenario:
He's using a loved one as a shield while shooting at you. Maybe while trying to reach an exit. Maybe while trying to get closer. If he's trying to flee, there's a 50-50 chance he'll shoot the family member when he gets out the door. At that point, you do the best you can to put him down.
+1 Bill
-KEEP your weapon
-NEVER allow ANYONE to be relocated
-TAKE control. I set the terms.....THEY live or die by them.....I make THAT clear and non-negotiable.
Fear loses. Preparation ignores fear.
Assertive gets control. Control is victory.
(The 'mantra' has aggressive not assertive but assertive vs. aggressive is better for this scenario to mitigate further escalation by BG.)
-KEEP your weapon
-NEVER allow ANYONE to be relocated
-TAKE control. I set the terms.....THEY live or die by them.....I make THAT clear and non-negotiable.
Fear loses. Preparation ignores fear.
Assertive gets control. Control is victory.
(The 'mantra' has aggressive not assertive but assertive vs. aggressive is better for this scenario to mitigate further escalation by BG.)
Pardon my ignorance but who is William S. Burroughs and what is a pons shot?
As for the situation, it'd hard to say. Given the short distances of my house, I'd prolly take the shot.
Recite the CHL Prayer aloud so the BG can hear it and squeeze the trigger.
Bullet in my chamber,
Hollowed is your point.
Thy job be one,
My will be done.
To stop, the BG against me.
Give me today a good expansion,
And get this guy for trespassing,
As this is my house,
And I don’t like trespassers.
I lead you into his abdomine,
You will de-liver him.
For mine is the kill,
With power and Glory,
For 7 to 15 yds,
BANG
As for the situation, it'd hard to say. Given the short distances of my house, I'd prolly take the shot.
Recite the CHL Prayer aloud so the BG can hear it and squeeze the trigger.
Bullet in my chamber,
Hollowed is your point.
Thy job be one,
My will be done.
To stop, the BG against me.
Give me today a good expansion,
And get this guy for trespassing,
As this is my house,
And I don’t like trespassers.
I lead you into his abdomine,
You will de-liver him.
For mine is the kill,
With power and Glory,
For 7 to 15 yds,
BANG
To answer one question:
First, as most here probably know, it IS possible to survive a head shot. It is even possible to fight with purpose, after a head shot.
Thus, your placement MUST be precise.
The shot that must be executed is one that turns off the lights NOW. The target simply freezes, then falls like a tree. No twitches of the finger, no final breath, no movement, NOTHING. There is one--and ONLY one--shot that will ensure this, and that is the "pons" shot.
This shot impacts and destroys the brain stem--the nerve and communication center of the body. ALL functions of the body go through this nexus. Once destroyed, the body simply ceases to function.
The aiming point for this shot is determined in this manner:
For a target (head) facing you, visualize a T. The arms of the T take in the area of both eyes, to the edges of the eyes. The bottom of the T goes down to the bottom of the nose. The optimum aiming point for this shot is the bridge of the nose.
For a side shot, the area is much smaller. Aiming point is the auditory canal of the ear.
From the back, the area of the head where the curvature of the skull starts sloping downward toward the neck is the desired target.
Making a shot like this--under these circumstances--is part training--but the majority is MINDSET.
You must mentally prepare to make the shot. Once you have committed, the trigger MUST be rolled smoothly to the rear. Firm grip, sight alignment, sight picture and trigger control is paramount.
Another element of making a precision shot is follow through. You pull the trigger without disturbing the sights. When the weapon fires, you continue pulling the trigger to its fully rearward position, while you reacquire the target. The trigger is then released to the reset position in preparation for another shot.
The point here is this, people--when the time comes, the time for rationalization is OVER. Your family member is in the grasp of an ANIMAL. You have the responsibility to protect your family.
There can be no rationalization, and there is no room for fair play. There is only room for ACTION. Do not hesitate, and do not second guess yourself. This is where training and the acquisition of proper mindset comes into play; you must be mentally equipped to take the shot when the time comes.
I know what some of the posters are saying, and I have read the "ninja" posts. All I will say is this:
I have trained for most of my adult life to take this shot.
Part of that training is competing in Conventional Pistol (NRA). I can place an aimed shot, with my 1911 or Glock handgun (or any handgun in my safe) into a 1" circle at 10 yards (the longest distance in my house right now) 100% of the time--without fail.
A second part of my training is from law enforcement qualifications. Our qualifications begin with a stage that requires you to place 2 rounds COM, then two rounds in the head area of a B27, within 3 seconds. This is from a fully secured Level 3 holster, and you start in the "interview" position. My first two rounds are X ring shots, and my second two are less than 2 inches apart, centered on the head.
The third part of the mindset comes from 15 years as a soldier, training to actively engage the enemy at all ranges from hands-on to long distances.
My wife is my world. We have been married for almost 28 years; she is my best friend and my companion.
Any person who lays hands on her with hostile intent will be dealt with--swiftly, without hesitation, and without mercy.
And that's all I'll say about that.
First, as most here probably know, it IS possible to survive a head shot. It is even possible to fight with purpose, after a head shot.
Thus, your placement MUST be precise.
The shot that must be executed is one that turns off the lights NOW. The target simply freezes, then falls like a tree. No twitches of the finger, no final breath, no movement, NOTHING. There is one--and ONLY one--shot that will ensure this, and that is the "pons" shot.
This shot impacts and destroys the brain stem--the nerve and communication center of the body. ALL functions of the body go through this nexus. Once destroyed, the body simply ceases to function.
The aiming point for this shot is determined in this manner:
For a target (head) facing you, visualize a T. The arms of the T take in the area of both eyes, to the edges of the eyes. The bottom of the T goes down to the bottom of the nose. The optimum aiming point for this shot is the bridge of the nose.
For a side shot, the area is much smaller. Aiming point is the auditory canal of the ear.
From the back, the area of the head where the curvature of the skull starts sloping downward toward the neck is the desired target.
Making a shot like this--under these circumstances--is part training--but the majority is MINDSET.
You must mentally prepare to make the shot. Once you have committed, the trigger MUST be rolled smoothly to the rear. Firm grip, sight alignment, sight picture and trigger control is paramount.
Another element of making a precision shot is follow through. You pull the trigger without disturbing the sights. When the weapon fires, you continue pulling the trigger to its fully rearward position, while you reacquire the target. The trigger is then released to the reset position in preparation for another shot.
The point here is this, people--when the time comes, the time for rationalization is OVER. Your family member is in the grasp of an ANIMAL. You have the responsibility to protect your family.
There can be no rationalization, and there is no room for fair play. There is only room for ACTION. Do not hesitate, and do not second guess yourself. This is where training and the acquisition of proper mindset comes into play; you must be mentally equipped to take the shot when the time comes.
I know what some of the posters are saying, and I have read the "ninja" posts. All I will say is this:
I have trained for most of my adult life to take this shot.
Part of that training is competing in Conventional Pistol (NRA). I can place an aimed shot, with my 1911 or Glock handgun (or any handgun in my safe) into a 1" circle at 10 yards (the longest distance in my house right now) 100% of the time--without fail.
A second part of my training is from law enforcement qualifications. Our qualifications begin with a stage that requires you to place 2 rounds COM, then two rounds in the head area of a B27, within 3 seconds. This is from a fully secured Level 3 holster, and you start in the "interview" position. My first two rounds are X ring shots, and my second two are less than 2 inches apart, centered on the head.
The third part of the mindset comes from 15 years as a soldier, training to actively engage the enemy at all ranges from hands-on to long distances.
My wife is my world. We have been married for almost 28 years; she is my best friend and my companion.
Any person who lays hands on her with hostile intent will be dealt with--swiftly, without hesitation, and without mercy.
And that's all I'll say about that.