What the hell are they teaching here!?

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Tuco:
When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
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I know that quoting a western may be not quite inbounds, but it makes a valid point. There are times when a warning could cost you your life. I agree wholeheartedly with Capt. Charlie in that a self defense situation is a dynamic environment. What holds true for one may not for the next, so sometimes a warning could be justified as well.

That being said, when it is time to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
 
Sum,

What I am saying is I think the method of drawing a gun only when you are ready to fire is flawed and immoral. Why? Because you are surprising the BG with your gun and before he has time to react and get the hell out of there, you fire.
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So I am immoral for not giving my potential murderer any extra time to kill me? Are you serious? "Time to react and get the hell out of there" they should have never put me or themselves in danger. Now I must decide to delay and possibly get cut/killed or fire instantly not giving the poor knife wielding bad guy a chance. I think I will error on the side of staying alive.

I was ready to shoot if the man needed shooting. If he advanced or did something stupid I would have shot him without hesitation.
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You are very lucky buddy. If he had charged, you would be cut......bottom line. Unless you can hit the brain or spine of a deadly threat at full run. If you think that any carry handgun cartridge can instantly stop a human never mind a 22lr you are seriously in denial of the facts. One thing I can promise you is that the last thing you want stuck to you is a ticked off bad guy with a knife. Had this situation turned ugly and the threat decided to charge your decision to give a warning could have been a mortal mistake. I will never hurt a soul however I refuse to be hurt by a bad guy. If someone decides to pull a knife they better hope that I have some cover between us. If not there will be no warning. I can't afford to take the chance you did.
 
the reason for carry is protection in n.c. you must be in fear of death or serious bodly harm to you or others felonies don't always apply. no threat be a witness if threat you must decide at that time what is best.
 
The author that you deride in this thread has a much better grasp of the use of deadly force by citizens than do you, Sum1 (Yet I'm also one of those who don't agree with condition 3 for an autoloader). The only time the ccw is used, to include presentation, is if one is in fear of the loss of life or in fear of grave injury...Period. A BG has you at knifepoint and it's your right and obligation to stop the BG with deadly force. I think you were very lucky to have survived your encounter with the knife weilding BG...and I just have to wonder how many other victims have come under knifepoint from him since then. I'm of the mindset that anyone who exhibits the behavior of having me at knifepoint immediately gets that behavior stopped with a center hit with a .44 Special. I not only see this as my right but also my obligation...to me and law abiding society, in general.

You see, sir, I've already made up my mind about when to use my ccw and there will be no hesitation when it's needed nor will I pull it if not to absolutely save life or escape grave harm. It must be that "clear cut". There is just no room (nor time) for subjective "warnings".

---------OK, I'll refrain from comment of .22s for ccw...ouch!!! bit my tongue.
 
OK, I've been trying not to comment on this for fear of upsetting someone but I'm about to burst if I don't.
I think Sum's situation was this: He was not immediately under attack, but was been threatened with attack; he cannot know if the threat will be followed through, so must prepare for it.
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The knife wielding mugger was only 4-5 feet away! How long do you wait before reacting? Until he starts slicing & dicing? By then you'll probably bleed out! Remembering the Tueller Drill, Sum1 was at a disadvantage from the moment this encounter began. An accomplished knife handler could have just as easily plunged his knife into Sum1's heart before he even had a chance to fire his .22 pistol and a seasoned crack addicted mugger would not have been scared off so easily either.

The good part is Sum1 was extremely fortunate that he did not get cut, stabbed or even killed.

The bad part is he may think if it worked once it will work again and the next time all he has to do is just "show" his firearm and the BG will run away, again! Which means he's lost the edge, it's called complacency.

I agree with odessastraight, TexiCali Slim & threegun on this one. As for me, if someone with a knife demands my wallet I'm gonna double tap him as I move off to the side. But I'm not using a .22 either, I'm using my XD45. Sorry threegun, I put my Glocks in the safe for now. ;)

But of course as usual this is only my opinion. I'm not an expert but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once. ;)

riverrat66...out
 
Self Defense

If you wait for things to go south you usually waited to long at least that is the general opinion . If possible I might same something if not the way I understand it from all the LEO I have talked to is if the BG is there with a weapon the law looks at it as the BG intends to use it.If I where to walk into my living room and saw a BG with his back to me looking thru my stuff and saw he had a gun he would have bought himself a round in the back to say something by the time he turned you would be behind the curve ( and you'd probably get shot in that case), with a knife maybe a warning not to move ,make any sudden movements and you will be shot. If I catch him standing facing me his hands behind his back and tell him make any sudden moves and you will be shot do you think if he is in his right mind he'd throw his hands up probably not and if he did just by the movement being fast he'd get shot.Granted there are times to let them know they have been caught and there are times when you let the weapon do your talking every encounter is going to be different it's like emergency medicine in 20 years of working the street never found one patient that read the book same in self defense.If and when any of us has to shoot somebody we all hope it's the right thing at the right time. Cause if it isn't we stand to loose all we have worked for. But as we know every law is subject to interpretation by a judge and just cause it says this doesn't mean when it's done it won't say that. But like I said before what do I know I'm just a retired Medic. Be Safe Out There Kurt
 
ditto on the local laws

Actual real life case here in Jacksonville, FL from a few months ago:
Individual enters an electronics store and asks for or insists they give him some money (depending on whose story you believe). When the store owner, named Freeman, refuses the individual starts to wander about the store. Store owner gets worried, and sends staff to a more secure area in the back and they call 911. The store owner is VERY worried, so when the individual makes a move for his waistband the store owner shoots him several times. The individual was NOT armed and the store owner was NOT charged with any crime.

The long and the short of it was the store owner BELIEVED he was in danger of robbed, great bodily harm, being killed, or any of the above.

In FL the laws (at least the way I as a lay person, interpret them) used to say your concealed weapon was there to save you or somebody else from being killed or grave bodily harm NOT as a crime deterent - - leave law enforcement to LEO's. If yours or somebody else's life was not in danger you had better not shoot.

New Florida laws beef up and expand the "castle doctrine". It allows the home/business/car owner more leeway in defending his/her property.
 
Usually in these scenarios your brain is your first line of defense.
If you percieve bodily harm or death I feel it prudent to draw and warn the opponent. If that don't work, shoot him. If it's almost too late,just shoot him.He can't defend himself in court if he's dead.
Also you have to remember court,wonderful court.
Now I saw some posts where folks here have or want big bad magnums,big bad buckshot and howitzers for defense.
Well, the judge wants to find out if it was your intent to kill this perp or just stop him from doing a crime.
He'll ask what caliber,size of bullets etc and if you tell him you was using a normal handgun of say .40 cal with self defense ammo it'll look good for you.
If you tell him you were using super magnum nitro armor piercing blasters it'll help put you away.
I use #6 shot in my home defense 12 ga. and plain hollow point Cor-Bons in my .40 semi carry pistol. Buckshot judges don't like. Magnums judges don't like.
Always carry one in the pipe and always try to get away from the situation if you can.
If you can't, shoot em.
If you shoot em' make sure they're dead or they'll come back and sue you for damages.
There are many things to consider for the gun carrying person. The laws make it tough to defend yourself but it can be done if you USE YOUR HEAD.
KNOW THE LAWS OF YOUR STATE, and don't try to be John Wayne and clean up the bad guys.
The reason behind carry licenses are to DETER crime.
Yes, I believe you should come to the aid of someone else in trouble,after calling the police if you can. Cell phones make it easy now. Cell phones with cameras sometimes help even more. Sometimes you can deter a crime just by the action of taking a picture or video,the bad guy will take off.
I try to leave the blasting of bad guys to the police and military, but I will blast someone to save my hide or someone elses if necessary,after I use my head and think a little first.
George
 
If it's a clean shoot (you were in fear for your life or the life of another, and the other Texas justifications) you will never have to explain to a judge what ammunition you used because you will never go before a judge in the first place. Here in Harris County, the grand jury has not true-billed a self-defense shooting since I've lived here; nor did any grand jury in Austin when I lived there.

God bless Texas.

Springmom
 
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