workinwifdakids
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You've never heard of someone being hit while wearing armor, and sufferering internal injuries without the bullet penetrating their skin? The 'spinal cord' this was hyperbolic analogy, but the fact still stands.
What tactical use is the shotgun slug?
- Thread starter pfch1977
- Start date
I carry slugs for:
- putting down injured animals;
- vehicles;
- barricades/cover;
- body armor.
We have 870s, most with 6-rd. extended mags, 6-rd. side-saddles, slings and lights. About half have slug sights, the others were upgraded from older guns and have beads only.
Since I carry an AR with a sling and a light, and my vehicle has mounts for both anyway, I carry also an older 870 with no light, sling or extended mag, loaded with four 00 buck for social work, and slugs only in the side-saddle.
I figure I'll choose the AR if I have time, but if I roll up on something going down fast like a vehicle stop or parking lot shootout, I can deploy the shotgun faster, not have to monkey with the sling, hands on the controls, find the bead and kaboom four times (x9).
Vehicle stop or guy doesn't stay down, select slug, combat load, kaboom (x6), then transition.
I used to carry only 2 or 3 slugs in the side-saddle, but one of the Wise Old Men argued that loads shouldn't be mixed lest the wrong one get pulled in the heat of battle, so I decided to go slug only. I figure that if it can be solved with buckshot, four rounds is enough.
- putting down injured animals;
- vehicles;
- barricades/cover;
- body armor.
We have 870s, most with 6-rd. extended mags, 6-rd. side-saddles, slings and lights. About half have slug sights, the others were upgraded from older guns and have beads only.
Since I carry an AR with a sling and a light, and my vehicle has mounts for both anyway, I carry also an older 870 with no light, sling or extended mag, loaded with four 00 buck for social work, and slugs only in the side-saddle.
I figure I'll choose the AR if I have time, but if I roll up on something going down fast like a vehicle stop or parking lot shootout, I can deploy the shotgun faster, not have to monkey with the sling, hands on the controls, find the bead and kaboom four times (x9).
Vehicle stop or guy doesn't stay down, select slug, combat load, kaboom (x6), then transition.
I used to carry only 2 or 3 slugs in the side-saddle, but one of the Wise Old Men argued that loads shouldn't be mixed lest the wrong one get pulled in the heat of battle, so I decided to go slug only. I figure that if it can be solved with buckshot, four rounds is enough.
If you want to stack enough layers of Kevlar you can stop anything, though at some point it will look like a winter jacket.
The problem is the resulting blunt force trauma under the Kevlar.
A high power rifle hit tothe center o the chest with only soft body armor can lead to all sorts of internalk damage, like ruptured organs.
A plate allows the force to be dissipated over a much larger area resulting in very little damage beyond some bruises.
The problem with plates is thay they are damaged when struck (often fractured).
Bullet resistant glass can be made thick enough to stop any small arm, but it gets pretty unwieldy at 3 inches and up in thickness.
The problem is the resulting blunt force trauma under the Kevlar.
A high power rifle hit tothe center o the chest with only soft body armor can lead to all sorts of internalk damage, like ruptured organs.
A plate allows the force to be dissipated over a much larger area resulting in very little damage beyond some bruises.
The problem with plates is thay they are damaged when struck (often fractured).
Bullet resistant glass can be made thick enough to stop any small arm, but it gets pretty unwieldy at 3 inches and up in thickness.
First, a high power rifle round will not be stopped with only soft body armor.
Second, while I've heard of fractured ribs and severe bruising from getting hit with a large caliber handgun round while wearing a soft vest, I've never heard of anything more.
Since getting hit with a large caliber handgun round is like getting hit with a major league fastball, I'm going to figure that getting hit with a shotgun slug is like getting hit with an aluminum bat swung pretty damn hard.
This will surely cause major discomfort, bruising and probably a broken rib or two. If it hits directly above the heart it might be enough shock to cause the heart to stop.
But I highly doubt that it will "rupture internal organs" or "go through the body and snap the spine." Organs (with the exception of the liver) are very pliable things and can deform and spring back to shape with ease. Read Fackler.
Stack enough layers and it WILL be stopped.
Since the blunt force trauma would be excessive nothing like this is practical and we use trauma plates to spread the impact.
And organs filled with liquid like hearts, stomachs, intestines, bladder or even the liver and spleen can rupture.
Blunt force trauma from beatings (often with objects) is a common cause of these types of injuries.
Even blast impact at high enough pressure levels results in internal organ damage.
Snapping the spine seems a little far, unless the impact was in the back over the spine.
At that point all bets on spinal injury are off.
Back in the mid 70's I was "plinking" with college roommate (whose Dad ran a automobile body shop) at their private "dump yard" in a West Texas pasture. We located a 1963 Chevy Impala with the engine removed. (This was back in the days when cars had far more steel than plastic.)
To see what it would do, I put 1-ounce Foster slug through the front grille. It subsequently went through the radiator, the (steel) firewall, the (steel) dash, through the front seat, the back seat and exited the trunk. We found the slug flattened out and finally stopped inside the heavy chrome rear bumber.
To see what it would do, I put 1-ounce Foster slug through the front grille. It subsequently went through the radiator, the (steel) firewall, the (steel) dash, through the front seat, the back seat and exited the trunk. We found the slug flattened out and finally stopped inside the heavy chrome rear bumber.
David Armstrong
Moderator
Well, with my Beretta 1201 I used to shoot cloverleafs at 40 yards with slugs, and could keep them in a paper plate at 100 yards. Slugs turn a good 30 yards and in weapon into a good 100 yard weapon.
It's a typo. I'm sure he meant to say "have a big..."
The Augila mini-shells don't always feed reliably in some pump shotguns and semi-autos. For single shot and doubles they're just fine of course. Make sure they'll feed reliably before you need to use them. I found they didn't work well if the gun was tipped over at an angle.
I just had to say ; not much a slug can't handle within a 100 yards except stout armor! Slugs are so ferocious that I use Remington Managed recoil ones for HD because I can shoot them so fast and accurately and 1 butter soft Oz. at trans sonic velocities is gonna do the job. I use Brennekes for 4 legged things.
I gotta agree with Tuckahoe: if LAPD had slugs available on 02/28/97, Larry Phillips, Jr. and Emil Matasareanu might have done less damage, even if they weren't stopped completely.
Kind of moot now, with patrol rifles and all, but 1¼ oz. of lead turning into something with 2800+ (2¾" shell) to 3100+ (3" shell) foot-pounds of energy is pretty impressive.
As Buford T. Justice once said, "That's an attention-gettah."
Kind of moot now, with patrol rifles and all, but 1¼ oz. of lead turning into something with 2800+ (2¾" shell) to 3100+ (3" shell) foot-pounds of energy is pretty impressive.
As Buford T. Justice once said, "That's an attention-gettah."
Slugs, or 00 buck would end a lot of car chases. An officer ahead of the chase, with some cover, as with spike-strips, could easily take out the radiator, and other under-hood parts. Unlike spike-strips & tires, once the radiator's out and the car overheats, it's gonna STOP!
Stay safe.
Bob
Stay safe.
Bob
Actually, the spike strips are safer and more effective than punching holes in the radiator. You can continue to drive a car several miles after the coolant has jumped ship.
Not that a 12 gauge slug won't cause all sorts of havoc under the hood though. Batteries don't react well to bullets either and the resulting short circuit can play hob with onboard computers.
On a side note, one may ask why not use the slug on the windshield to get the driver. Windshields don't pose too much of an obstacle and you're likely to reach the driver. But then, you just created a runaway 2-ton blunt instrument that can injure innocents. It's safer to try to stop the vehicle then deal with the occupant.
Not that a 12 gauge slug won't cause all sorts of havoc under the hood though. Batteries don't react well to bullets either and the resulting short circuit can play hob with onboard computers.
On a side note, one may ask why not use the slug on the windshield to get the driver. Windshields don't pose too much of an obstacle and you're likely to reach the driver. But then, you just created a runaway 2-ton blunt instrument that can injure innocents. It's safer to try to stop the vehicle then deal with the occupant.
Boris Bush
Moderator
BillCA
Some here don't like to hear about the actual use of force so I will just cut to the chase.
I tried the shoot the car method once. The last word in the sentence before this one is the key word. One time. I used the taught method every other
time, you can guess what that might be.
hope I didn't offend anyone................
Some here don't like to hear about the actual use of force so I will just cut to the chase.
I tried the shoot the car method once. The last word in the sentence before this one is the key word. One time. I used the taught method every other
time, you can guess what that might be.
hope I didn't offend anyone................
I understand that the Shotgun slug has tactical value. It knocks people down with one shot. I is cost effective for sure. But the weapon in general has its draw backs. Just working the pump action under stress can be difficult.
One of the guys on my department was involved in a shooting. He shot the suspect two times with a slug. However he short stroked it after the second shot and the gun malfunctioned. He thought it was broken, so the threw it on the ground. You may think that this is a simple training issue, but I can tell you that this officer was high-speed low-drag.
One of the guys on my department was involved in a shooting. He shot the suspect two times with a slug. However he short stroked it after the second shot and the gun malfunctioned. He thought it was broken, so the threw it on the ground. You may think that this is a simple training issue, but I can tell you that this officer was high-speed low-drag.
Boris Bush
Moderator
Jake M.
So very true. I myself have short stroked a pump, more than once. What alot of people here will never realize (thank god) is what they will exactly do in a fire fight. I watched a brother run out into the middle of the road, just stand there and let loose a couple of mags. The volume of fire unleased in our direction was almost overwhelming and he never got touched! He later said "I do not know why I did that!!!" We can laugh about it now, but someone answered my prayers before that mission as well as the prayers of others...
The only real advice I could give someone is that when the elephant charges, it will be exactly how and when they never trained for it to happen and the fundamentals and basics is what will save thier lives.......
So very true. I myself have short stroked a pump, more than once. What alot of people here will never realize (thank god) is what they will exactly do in a fire fight. I watched a brother run out into the middle of the road, just stand there and let loose a couple of mags. The volume of fire unleased in our direction was almost overwhelming and he never got touched! He later said "I do not know why I did that!!!" We can laugh about it now, but someone answered my prayers before that mission as well as the prayers of others...
The only real advice I could give someone is that when the elephant charges, it will be exactly how and when they never trained for it to happen and the fundamentals and basics is what will save thier lives.......