What should I look into for a new compact or sub compact carry?

R

riffraff

New member
Hi,

The smallest pistol I have is a Taurus PT111 Millennium G2 in 9mm. Although it's nothing fancy I trust it and I like it generally for carrying. I keep it in a soft holster in my front pocket where it's very comfortable and is passively concealed if I'm wearing a jacket - maybe if I move the wrong way you may get a glimpse but that is OK because I'm in an open carry state.

Sometimes though I'm not wearing a jacket and I'm going someplace where I really want both to be comfortable and 100% concealed, and I'd like something smaller.

My basic criteria would be something in the ballpark of 9mm, .380, .32.. Ideally this next pistol will also be without a safety trigger (I feel like I fumble with these a bit if I want to be quick, worse than a regular safety).. Outside of that real open...

Thanks in advance!
 
Seems like rather than a new pistol you could just carry in a different way.

Ideally this next pistol will also be without a safety trigger (I feel like I fumble with these a bit if I want to be quick, worse than a regular safety)
Click to expand...

How do you fumble with a tab that should be depressed when you press the trigger? Could you be more descriptive there?
 
My suggestion is a LCP with a Wolff Springs 12 lb recoil spring set. Those springs do a good job of taming the infamous snappiness of the LCP. Keep the stock springs in case you ever have to send it back to Ruger (who has very good customer service).

The .32 will have less recoil, but the ammo costs much more while being far less effective than good .380 stuff.
 
Given your criteria, I might make a couple of suggestions.

Firstly, I would recommend a different method of carry - more specifically an inside-the-waistband holster, ideally full kydex, but the hybrid styles can be more comfortable for some people - I prefer the more positive click-in retention of full kydex. I'm personally a fan of carrying in the appendix position, but I have been known to carry on/behind the hip with a cover garment like a hoodie or jacket.

I never recommend anything smaller than 9mm for defensive use. If you need smaller or lighter weight than a good 9mm - go with an airweight revolver. The S&W 360PD is my favorite deep concealment gun and packs a whole lot of 357magnum power into a 12oz package.

Taking what you've said into consideration, I would probably direct you to look at something like an HK P30 SK - either the V1 LEM trigger or the V3 DA/SA trigger. If you like the consistent trigger pull of the Taurus, the LEM might be more up your alley. Personally, I'm a fan of the DA/SA trigger set up.

You could get a holster like this for carrying appendix. This would be a huge step up from your current set up - both in speed and safety.

The HK VP9 SK is also a stellar choice in this arena, but you mentioned you would rather not have the trigger safety tab.
 
Thanks guys..

The way I fumble with the tab is I somehow manage to depress the trigger without depressing the tab enough to override the safety, trigger is locked and it doesn't fire or it creates a funny feeling as the safety stops the trigger then the trigger breaks free after I touch the safety right. Hard to describe what goes wrong but I know I dislike it.

The Taurus is ok. I dont love it but am used to it so I trust it, and I kinda like having the cheaper pistol as a carry, I dont worry so much if it gets wet, dirty, or whatever so I am able to have it with me more. Some day I will upgrade to a pretty higher end carry in the same size range as an alternative but what I got works.

The holster I normally use is an IWB style, I just use it in my pocket. I like being able to sit down in the car without being jabbed, and generally I'm just not comfortable carrying there - BUT maybe if I can shrink the size and weight I will be.
 
Are you sure the trigger safety and trigger are working right? I've never heard of anyone having that sort of problem with them before.

My pocket pistol is a Sig P238, although I more commonly carry a larger pistol IWB. It is a very nice-shooting pistol, though, worth having a look at.
 
Don't buy a new sub compact without a through inspection and handling at the gun dealer.

These forums are full of stories, most particularly as concerns sub compact pistols, of guys being very dissatisfied with some aspect of the gun. Most complaints seem to relate to trigger characteristics or the fit in the hand. Take a few snap caps with you so the dealer doesn't get upset with dry firing.
 
My first EDC was the Taurus PT111 Millennium G2 in 9mm. Nice gun with a reset if first round didn't go off. I liked that. Like you I thought it was too difficult to conceal carry. I went with a Beretta Nano in 9mm. It's a lot smaller but only stores 6 or 8 rounds plus one. There's a guy on this forum, kymasabe is selling a Nano that you could get for around $200
 
My G2 is okay. I carry it OWB sometimes.

In warm weather I carry a Ruger LCR in the cargo pocket of shorts. My long ape arms let my hands touch the grip if I let them dangle.

In cooler weather I often carry a Ruger LCPII in a breast pocket or (if I know I won't be sitting), in a back pocket.

The thing about the LCR and LCP is that they are so light they don't weight your pocket down at all. It is easy to forget you're even carrying them. But they both shoot what I consider to be decent calibers, and I can draw and fire them both quickly and well.

For coat pocket carry I prefer a CA Bulldog.

I have come to prefer IWB or OWB carry less as time goes on.
 
Thanks Guys!

Tailgator - thanks for the recommendation on the Sig - Sig is where I was thinking of going when I do upgrade to a better EDC that is in the same size range as the Taurus. How big is a 238 - like smaller than my Taurus or the same size?..

A couple recommendations here for an LCP and LCP II.. May be hard to resist those at $200 to $250..

Will checkout the HK, SW, Keltec, and Beretta too.

As far as the trigger on my Taurus I think it's OK, the problem is instantly solved by paying attention to pulling the trigger such to depress the safety - just I have some natural way of fumbling with it.
 
Have you shot these tiny pocket pistols before? The Taurus you already have isn't exactly a large gun. Pocket guns are very difficult to shoot well and manipulate even without stress because everything is so shrunken down. When I started shooting a few years ago, on bad advice that pocket guns are the only things that conceal well, I got a Bodyguard .380 and tried to learn to shoot with it. I was awful. Tiny gun, no sights, long trigger, barely larger than a cell phone. I came to learn that with a well designed holster, it's possible to conceal much larger things, especially in the AIWB position. Where before I thought I couldn't get away with anything bigger than a pocket gun, I learned to carry a Glock 19 sized firearm under pretty modest clothing. I later added a single-stack Walther PPS that conceals easily under basically anything.

Recently I picked up a Beretta Pico .380 just because I found one cheap. And while it's still a challenging gun to shoot, I'm far better with it than I ever was with the last one, because I'd had so much practice developing the basics on guns that are larger and easier to control. It will likely become my gun for wearing dress clothes with a tuckable holster. And it's not often that I actually need that.

Anyway, I'd personally advise from experience: unless you are already a very seasoned shooter with good mastery of the basics, AND you'll need something that's truly that small (for instance, to hide tucked-in under fitted dress clothes), I would be hesitant to get too involved with pocket pistols.

Look instead to the larger (but still small) single-stacks like Shield, XD-s, PPS, Glock 43, Sig P365, Beretta Nano and others. Heck, the new Mossberg CCW gun looks pretty good and I saw one at a store yesterday for $359 new. New PPS M2s are popping up online for $270. New Shields at barely over $300. P365s for $500, and that price gets you more capacity and very good night sights.
 
Caliber, concealability, reliability and capacity. These are the most important factors in a carry gun. To me, comfort come last.

That said, there are so many great sub compact pistols on the market right now in 9mm that can be easily pocket carried if that is your MO.

The new glock G43X, sig p365c LC9/Ec9, s&w shield, etc.

LuckyGunner also did a YouTube series on “Mouse guns” if you want a smaller caliber lightweight pistol. May be worth a watch.
 
riffraff said:
Hi,

The smallest pistol I have is a Taurus PT111 Millennium G2 in 9mm. Although it's nothing fancy I trust it and I like it generally for carrying. I keep it in a soft holster in my front pocket where it's very comfortable and is passively concealed if I'm wearing a jacket - maybe if I move the wrong way you may get a glimpse but that is OK because I'm in an open carry state.

Sometimes though I'm not wearing a jacket and I'm going someplace where I really want both to be comfortable and 100% concealed, and I'd like something smaller.

My basic criteria would be something in the ballpark of 9mm, .380, .32.. Ideally this next pistol will also be without a safety trigger (I feel like I fumble with these a bit if I want to be quick, worse than a regular safety).. Outside of that real open...

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
I have long been a fan of small easily concealable and presentable handguns and today there are really a while host of them available.

I also am a fan of the 380 cartridge and again, today's 380s ain't what I was using back when Ike was President.

While for most of my shooting experience I preferred a revolver over a semi-automatics, a snub nosed revolver, today I find the small pocket 380s as reliable as my snubbies and with one or two more rounds available.

Of the small pocket 380 pistols available today I have personal experience with the latest generation Ruger LCP, the Beretta Pico, the S&W M&P Bodyguard 380 and the Remington RM380.

All really are small enough to carry in a pants pocket, there are pocket holsters available for each that will allow sure and easy presentation.

After that the personalities start to differentiate.

Of the four I find the Remington RM380 by far the most versatile, most comfortable to shoot, easiest to return on target and most forgiving when it comes to ammo. In fact I find it as close to the perfect pistol as I've yet experienced. The one single issue is the field strip routine but once you learn the secret handshake even that becomes easy.

In particular it has the easiest slide to rack by far.

Next I would put the Beretta Pico. The only issue there has been with some wide mouthed hollow point ammo where I found some failure to feeds.

The S&W M&P Bg380 comes next. It has the most noticeable recoil of the four pistols and by far the hardest slide to rack. The difficulty is really dependent on the number of rounds and so may go away over time.

The Ruger LCP I find just barely acceptable as a carry choice. It's not really a true double action rather the recoil partially cocks the hammer so the trigger does not really cock the hammer. It has no second strike capabilities and does have a really annoying double reset on the trigger.

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Thanks again guys!

I don't mind the small size of the Taurus one bit, which is why I picked it really - is a good compromise in my hand, but is not one bit of a joy to shoot and even kinda rings my hand to the point where if it's cold my pinky might go numb for a minute! But it works. What a difference when I go from that to my Sig 226 or 229 :)..

I've shot some of these micro pistols and I agree/understand they are not fun at all - nor do they have great capacity or great features. But when it comes down to not carrying at all because of what I'm wearing or where I'm going, versus having a smaller option that I can take with me I think that's better than nothing (even if it's only 6 shots and has poor sights etc.. etc..). I just want another tool in my box, not a replacement for the ones I've got.
 
riffraff said:
Hi,

The smallest pistol I have is a Taurus PT111 Millennium G2 in 9mm. Although it's nothing fancy I trust it and I like it generally for carrying. I keep it in a soft holster in my front pocket where it's very comfortable and is passively concealed if I'm wearing a jacket - maybe if I move the wrong way you may get a glimpse but that is OK because I'm in an open carry state.

Sometimes though I'm not wearing a jacket and I'm going someplace where I really want both to be comfortable and 100% concealed, and I'd like something smaller.

My basic criteria would be something in the ballpark of 9mm, .380, .32.. Ideally this next pistol will also be without a safety trigger (I feel like I fumble with these a bit if I want to be quick, worse than a regular safety).. Outside of that real open...

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Small, tiny 9mm or .380 really suck to shoot. They are small, easy to conceal but to be good with them, be comfy with them, make sure they are reliable..gotta shoot them.
Glock 42 works great for me. Easy to conceal, even pocket carry it..Modern .380 ammo isn't the stuff John Browning came up with over 100 years ago..VERY good shooter..reliable(I have 2, shot a total of 3000+ rounds..NEVER had any failure of any kind, any ammo, cheapo to expensive.)...

I have +1 and +2 mag extensions..with the 6 round mags, makes for lotsa flexibility..Also carry a spare 8 round in left pocket via a 'SnagMag..
 
The most easily 'concealable' and comfortable practical firearm I've found over the last 40+ years is the 38 LCR. Some will quickly say something like....

"Oh but an LCR is much wider than a _____ or _____"

Ahh okay
IME Shape is far more important than a specific dimension like width.
The LCR while certainly funny looking....


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Tends to conform and mask well with its relatively organic shape & contours.
Especially when compared to a typical blocky semi-auto.
 
USNRet93 said:
Small, tiny 9mm or .380 really suck to shoot. They are small, easy to conceal but to be good with them, be comfy with them, make sure they are reliable..gotta shoot them.
Glock 42 works great for me. Easy to conceal, even pocket carry it..Modern .380 ammo isn't the stuff John Browning came up with over 100 years ago..VERY good shooter..reliable(I have 2, shot a total of 3000+ rounds..NEVER had any failure of any kind, any ammo, cheapo to expensive.)...

I have +1 and +2 mag extensions..with the 6 round mags, makes for lotsa flexibility..Also carry a spare 8 round in left pocket via a 'SnagMag..
Click to expand...
I'd second that -- .380 ACP as a caliber has nothing to do with how hard the gun is to shoot, and Glock 42 is *just* big enough to qualify as an actual gun :) It's not that hard to shoot well.

Another concern is not just holding and controlling the gun. It's also manipulating the gun. Clearing a misfeed by racking a slide smaller than a deck of cards is not easy to do under stress, and it's easy to mishandle the weapon. Magazine changes are difficult under the best of conditions.

And then there's drawing. I have a Beretta Pico now and I really like it so far, but that little sucker is not easy to draw consistently, and especially from the deep concealment locations where one would often want to carry such a pistol. I've tried dozens of times to draw from a belly band, and it's just too darn easy to fumble the draw that way.

I have never become comfortable with pocket carry.

The answers to these difficulties for me are either:

1. Train a whole lot more and become more proficient
2. Keep the Pico as a range toy and just find ways to carry a larger gun.

Can I make good hits with the pico? Yes. Can I get on target quickly and pretty accurately from low-ready? Surprisingly well. Can I draw from deep concealment without flinging the gun onto the floor? I'm not so sure about that one yet, and so being the world's greatest Pico Marksman won't help me if it's slid under the refrigerator :)

I know people love to hate on Sig because the early 365s had some glitches, but honestly it's an AWESOME little pistol. It's Beretta Nano sized, but can carry twice the rounds and has great sights on it. You can add a Hogue grip for better handling, or a laser or light, etc.

Pocket gun? Maybe, with big pockets. But fully usable? Definitely. I dunno -- I might steer you that direction. Heck it even comes with a thumb safety now if that's something you want.
 
I know people love to hate on Sig because the early 365s had some glitches, but honestly it's an AWESOME little pistol. It's Beretta Nano sized, but can carry twice the rounds and has great sights on it. You can add a Hogue grip for better handling, or a laser or light, etc.

Pocket gun? Maybe, with big pockets.
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I carried mine in my front pocket for a while with no issues.

Personally, sticking a pistol in a pocket is NOT the ideal way to carry any weapon. It simply presents some obstacles to smooth presentation, muscle memory, and exposes the pistol to debris as well as anything else you have your pocket which might interfere with the operation or deployment of it when needed. Better to keep it in a holster and develop the correct muscle memory giving yourself the best chance possible that it will be useful when the time comes.

Absolutely right though, the SIG P365 is the best CCW pistol I have encountered.
 
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