What semi-auto do you use for bear defense?

wyosmith said:
What sports car should you use to transport six 55 gallon drums of oil?
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I think a 1974 Renault Fascination would be appropriate:

74-Fascination-DV_13-AI_01.jpg
 
I cannot support arming bears. I think it's generally a bad idea. It can only lead to other species taking up weapons. As a friend from Southeast Missouri would say, "I'm agin it."
 
Oddly enough, not even ONE person answered the question who actually had to use a semi-auto against a bear. Guess we're still working on "what's my favorite gun" here and no substantial answers. Maybe there aren't too many, if any, people out there who have used a semi-auto on a bear. Gotta love the internet for getting the "facts". This Spring I used a 40cal S&W on a black bear who wouldn't leave me alone in my ground blind while I was hunting turkey. I ended up getting out of the blind after his third return in ten minutes and running at the bear while firing my gun in the air. He left and didn't come back. Guess my "real life experience" in using a semi-auto against a bear would be the 40cal S&W. Now that answer isn't worth squat, but it's closer than anything else so far.
 
I can actually carry my Tanfoglio Stock 10mm. My Desert Eagle 44 magnum would be awkward to carry. Also, my Stock is more accurate, more reliable, less prone to rusting and just a better all around gun. If I felt the need for 44 Magnum in the woods, I'd definitely go with a revolver.
 
I used my 10mm 1911 for bear defense (and EDC), until the time I accidentally got within about 20 feet of a momma black bear and her two 2nd-year cubs. She was standing upright, and we were eye-to-eye for what seemed like a LONG time. Fortunately, she let me back slowly away, and didn't attack. For the first time, my 10mm didn't seem big enough. That weekend, I bought a .44mag S&W69 L-Frame, and it's now my EDC.
 
Guess we're still working on "what's my favorite gun" here and no substantial answers. Maybe there aren't too many, if any, people out there who have used a semi-auto on a bear. Gotta love the internet for getting the "facts".
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Oh golly, PLEASE make this guy a moderator so that for the good of all mankind, he has the power to close and lock each discussion that he solves with wisdom, experience and eloquent tact.
 
Glock 20 or 29 with DoubleTap 200 gr hardcast at 1300 fps.

No I haven't had to pull the trigger on a bear, ( at least not with a handgun, I've killed them with rifles) and probably never will, but the 10mm has proven capable in several real world bear attacks on Alaskan grizzly. The energy and penetration numbers of the load I carry and most 44 mag loads fired from 4" barrels is virtually the same. 44 mag numbers look good on paper when taken from 8" test barrels, but those same loads from 4" guns aren't significantly better than 10mm.

I'm also a realist. A bear attack is far down on my list of concerns even when in bear country. Attacks from 2 legged predators is far more likely and a compact semi-auto holding 16 rounds of ammo is a far better option than a 3 lb. hog leg holding 6 rounds with far more blast and recoil.
 
I do not have bear problems and I do not own a 10mm.
If I felt a need for a bear semi-auto in lieu of the .44 Mag wheel gun I already have,I think a Glock 20 in 10 mm would be my choice.Fitted with a groove rifled barrel such as a Lone Wolf or KKM.Corbon and Buffalo bore offer hard cast loads.A 230 gr in excess of 1100 fps and a 200 gr in excess of 1300.They don't like polygonal rifling much.That is pretty near 41Magnum performance.The SD and penetration should be relatively good.Glocks are known for dependability and "draw and pull the trigger" A very high mag capacity is helpful.Approx a 20 round mag dump of 200 gr plus hard cast bullets would at least occupy my mind and time before I got flattened and ripped apart.Otherwise I might get anxiety.A practical consideration is price.I don't know what a Glock 20 costs,but maybe $650?? I'm thinking the more exotic options start in the four digit range.
I have only killed one bear in self defense.I used a 12 ga slug.Yes,I do realize ANY handgun is merely a hope and maybe time for a prayer against a large bear.I thinkI prefer one to just playing possum.
I don't own any Glocks.Hardly a "favorite gun" response.
In my experience,I (at this point) don't quite have the confidence in the .460 Rowland 1911 conversions vs a Glock.I understand there is a Glock that works well for a.460.

And,actually,no,I'm not a Glock fanboy.
 
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Let's get serious: "actual use" against bears ...

Sledge Patrol Sirius ;)

Danish Arctic Circle mil-patrol.
Random Polar Bear encounters.
Issue pistol = 10mm Glock 20.

Due to the very special nature of Sirius Sledge Patrol operations, a wide range of unique equipment is required that is not normally used within the Danish armed forces. The weapons carried also reflect the harsh conditions.

Among the equipment used by the Sirius Sledge Patrol is the M1917 Enfield bolt-action rifle chambered in .30-06 Springfield, known in Danish service as the Gevær M/53 (17), and Glock 20 pistols chambered in 10mm Auto. The reason for changing their sidearm is their previous Pistol M/49 sidearms chambered in 9mm Parabellum proved insufficient against the polar bears encountered.
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iCTw6WNx_-4
 
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Thought i should mention, there is a testimony written up in buffalo bore's website, on the 9mm outdoorsman page, of a man who claims to have killed a charging deadly grizzly bear with several (i believe 6) shots from his 9x19mm pistol and the buffalo outdoorsman 147gr Hardcast wide flatpoint load. There is a picture of the bear skinned, showing the entrance wound on one side and the nose of a bullet poking through the opposite side of the chest area.

So apparently even 9x19mm with an appropriate load AND SHOT PLACEMENT with as many accurately places rounds on target, as possible, can stop a deadly threat from a large ferocious animal.

My current only pistol is a 1911 .45acp, and i dont really live around bears, however there have been a few spotted about 20miles from where my dad lives, but they are black bears and that is Indiana.

I am getting a walther PPQ soon and have to decide on .40 or 9x19mm
 
jmr40 said:
The energy and penetration numbers of the load I carry and most 44 mag loads fired from 4" barrels is virtually the same [as 10mm]. 44 mag numbers look good on paper when taken from 8" test barrels, but those same loads from 4" guns aren't significantly better than 10mm.
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I doubt that, but I haven't done any chrono comparisons myself. An approximate analysis I just did says that my 4" .44mag S&W69 should produce roughly 3/4 of the energy of a barrel twice as long, or sqrt(3/4) of the velocity. For the full-barrel, Underwood's 1500 f/s 240gr .44mag should produce about 1300 f/s out of my 4" Model 69, and an energy of about 933 ft-lbs, versus about 700 ft-lbs for a 180gr 10mm Underwood round going 1300 f/s. That's not an insignificant difference.
 
Mike F ,Agreed,the 10 mm does not equal the 44 magnum.
It would take testing to compare the penetration of a hard cast 10mm 200 gr or 230 gr bullt vs the bullet you choose for a .44.

FWIW,I do not own a Glock or a 10 mm.I do own a Ruger Super Black Hawk.
I'm thinking that is proof I'm not a biased fanboy.

I believe the 10 mm penetration will at least be on the chart with the .44.I'm not saying equal,or better.Just on the same page.

A .44 Magnum revolver offers six shots.A 10 mm Glock offers three times that.(I don't know if its17?or 19,or 21?)

I think we really have to compare a cylinder of 44 Magnum versus a mag dump of 10 mm .Which is more likely to make the stop?

An imperfect comparison,the .44 mag is a .030 step up in diameter,but this is similar to the arguement between the .357 Mag in a revolver versus a Glock 19To be armed with a Colt,S+W,or Ruger .357 is to be well armed!.Its more powerful than a 9mm! But,today,you will find more Glock 19's ,or other Hi-cap 9 mm's,in the hands of Military,LEO's,and civilians for SD purposes. With similar bullet construction,three torso hits with a 9mm will likely be more effective than one .357 torso hit.
I own,and am familiar,with my Ruger SBH.I actually had it with me in Denali Park in AK.

I'd take it again,today.Unless I owned a Glock 20. Then I'd carry the Glock
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmr40
* * * An approximate analysis I just did says that my 4" .44mag S&W69 should produce roughly 3/4 of the energy of a barrel twice as long, or sqrt(3/4) of the velocity. For the full-barrel, Underwood's 1500 f/s 240gr .44mag should produce about 1300 f/s out of my 4" Model 69, and an energy of about 933 ft-lbs, versus about 700 ft-lbs for a 180gr 10mm Underwood round going 1300 f/s. That's not an insignificant difference.
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You making assumptions that don't necessarily hold true until vetted by a chronograph, for starters. Revolvers lose gas from the barrel/cylinder gap, some more than others depending on how big that gap is, which is something the barrel of an autoloader doesn't have.

Conversely, you have to compared apples to apples in these revolver vs autoloader discussions ... .. A 4" wheelgun barrel is ALL 4" of tube for the bullet and gas (not vented out the b/c gap) to traverse. A 4.6" Glock 20 barrel isn't 4.6" of rifled barrel, because the chamber covers about 1.260" of it. The bullet has less than 4" of true rifling to traverse before exiting the muzzle. You have to factor-in the length of actual rifling in given barrels when comparing fps/fpe values.
 
Spent four years in Seattle,

and I called Sierra techs and for a .45 goverment odel,they recommended that I use the heaviest bullets with the largest "meplat" and the highest velocity that I could still get good grouping.

So I upped and loaded the Hornday 230gr FP-FMJ over the Action Oistol powder or used the same bullet loaded by Hornady.

These were mostly carried for use against Cascade black bears.
 





I believe Wildey is gone, last I heard (a couple years back) no one was answering their phone though their website was still up, it hadn't been updated in a years...

The Auto Mag is long out of production as well. You can still get a new Desert Eagle though. (the one pictured was bought in 1990)

I would use any of these auto loaders for bear defense, in gravest need.

The standing old joke about semi autos for bear defense is "use a .32ACP!"
when the bear charges, shoot your buddy in the leg and run like hell.... you don't have to be faster than the bear, just faster than your buddy is" :eek::rolleyes:

(DON'T TRY THIS IN REAL LIFE! :))
 
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