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What self defense load should I use in my S&W Model 36?
- Thread starter art g
- Start date
Kentucky Rifle
New member
Art..
Your Chief is nearly as old as mine! I clearly remember the manual (I still have it somewhere) saying that non +P rounds should be used. Like Tamara, I almost always use the Nyclads. However, as noted, they are a little difficult to find. (Now WHY is that??) I've also thought the "PD" Hydra-Shoks might be a good replacement.
As long as I've had this nice little snubbie, the first time my wife picked it up, she out-shot me handily. How can that be???
KR
Your Chief is nearly as old as mine! I clearly remember the manual (I still have it somewhere) saying that non +P rounds should be used. Like Tamara, I almost always use the Nyclads. However, as noted, they are a little difficult to find. (Now WHY is that??) I've also thought the "PD" Hydra-Shoks might be a good replacement.
As long as I've had this nice little snubbie, the first time my wife picked it up, she out-shot me handily. How can that be???
KR
revolvergeek
New member
I normally use Stan Vel Nyclads (2" avg vel 850fps)in older guns, and either 158 LHPSWC +P or 147 +P+ Hydrashoks (2" avg vel 880fps)in newer guns. If the shooter is very recoil sensitive then the 110 Winchester Stan Vel Silvertips are nice, but have less energy than any of the other rounds listed.
In my *very* informal tests of shooting into water and soggy newspaper, all four of these rounds consistently expand to some degree. Normally the Nyclads and Silvetips give classic mushrooms, the Hydrashoks turn damn near inside out, and the LHPSWC open their noses about 1/2 way to a mushroom.
Firearms Tactical tested the 110 Personal Defense Hyrda Shock and got virtually no expansion out of it when fired out of a 2" barrel.
Da' link :
http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs12.htm
In my *very* informal tests of shooting into water and soggy newspaper, all four of these rounds consistently expand to some degree. Normally the Nyclads and Silvetips give classic mushrooms, the Hydrashoks turn damn near inside out, and the LHPSWC open their noses about 1/2 way to a mushroom.
Firearms Tactical tested the 110 Personal Defense Hyrda Shock and got virtually no expansion out of it when fired out of a 2" barrel.
Da' link :
http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs12.htm
don't shoot it's me
New member
All this nyclad talk is making me want to dump my 125+p gold dots.....what is the main advantage of this eponymous snubby round? Does it come in +P? Do you need +P? Why does it expand whens o few do? Why are they hard to find?
These are burning questions and I would like some answers.....caller, you're on the air...
These are burning questions and I would like some answers.....caller, you're on the air...
You don't want to go too hot in a small gun; the recoil is wicked. True, you might not notice in a gunfight, but the lack of control could be a problem.
Also you will tend to forgo practice with the carry ammo and either not practice or practice with a light load. Both are poor ideas.
Jim
Also you will tend to forgo practice with the carry ammo and either not practice or practice with a light load. Both are poor ideas.
Jim
1911A1 fan
New member
Art g, go with the 158 swc-hp +p and a 158 swc hand load for training, it should have the same POI or there about, I have shot the +Ps for 15 years in the same mod. 36 with no trouble. No dis on the folks that go for lighter loads but if you can't handle the 158 +Ps then you should go with a differerent gun like a Glock 26 or 27.
my question is why would you want to handicap yourself with a 2" .38 snub when there are vastly better choices in a package this small in this life & death topic ? a ruger sp 101 in .357 is no bigger than a j frame, can handle +p .38 loadings with ease or if you can handle them med. velocity .357 on up to full power stuff. its your life though
don't shoot it's me
New member
No bigger? Yes it is...and you can't compare a 101 to a 19 ounce 38 j-frame....the 101 is what? about 24 ounces?...now you're getting into compact 9mm auto weight....
dsgrntldPW
New member
The Nyclad in non- +P is a fine round in older snubbies. It's basically a lead hollowpoint with a plastic, or vinyl-like, jacket instead of a copper, or other type of metalllic jacket. 2" barrels don't give the round the opportunity to produce a lot of velocity, which you need to open up a standard jacketed bullet once it hits the target. When a Nyclad hits its target the vinyl coating provides no resistance to the expansion of the lead hollowpoint. This allows the bullet to rapidly dump its energy into the target at the lower velocities produced from the snubbies. Another byproduct of this bullet is that the coating expands with the bullet and helps to keep it together and not fragment, again providing for a more efficient energy dump into the target. The trade-off is less penetration, which may effect its performance in larger people. But you may find that in a similar situation a copper jacketed bullet would not expand well at the lower velocities and would not be as effective.
Years ago I fired some S&W 158 gr. Nyclads into wet phone books, along with Rem 125 gr. +P rounds, out of a Det. Special and was favorably impressed with their preformance. The 125's had greater penetration, but much less expansion, maybe up to .45". The Nyclad penetrated about 3" less, but expanded wonderfully, to well over 1/2", and stayed together.
Recently I acquired a S&W Model 37 and was looking for a non- +P round for it (I was unaware that Nyclad was still in production) and it was recommended to me also. I use the 125 gr. Standard load in the 37 and it is accurate enough for its purpose and recoil is mild. I think you will be satisfied with it.
BTW it does come in 125 gr. and 158gr. +P loads if you like.
Years ago I fired some S&W 158 gr. Nyclads into wet phone books, along with Rem 125 gr. +P rounds, out of a Det. Special and was favorably impressed with their preformance. The 125's had greater penetration, but much less expansion, maybe up to .45". The Nyclad penetrated about 3" less, but expanded wonderfully, to well over 1/2", and stayed together.
Recently I acquired a S&W Model 37 and was looking for a non- +P round for it (I was unaware that Nyclad was still in production) and it was recommended to me also. I use the 125 gr. Standard load in the 37 and it is accurate enough for its purpose and recoil is mild. I think you will be satisfied with it.
BTW it does come in 125 gr. and 158gr. +P loads if you like.
don't shoot it's me . . .
DsgrntldPW provided a great explanation -- although I thought the Nyclad's plastic/vinyl jacket was discarded BEFORE impact . . . learn something new every day -- of how Nyclads work and why they are a highly effective personal defense round.
I would add one point regarding penetration, which is particularly applicable to .357 mags but is also relevant to .38 Specials. I frequently load my bedside Ruger KGP-141 with two or three 125 grain Nyclads and then fill the remaining chambers with 357 magnum rounds. I do this since carry-through/over-penetration can be a real issue in town homes. Obviously, in this way I will hopefully have the felon down with the Nyclads -- far less over-penetration risk -- but have the .357 magnum loads as "backup".
DsgrntldPW provided a great explanation -- although I thought the Nyclad's plastic/vinyl jacket was discarded BEFORE impact . . . learn something new every day -- of how Nyclads work and why they are a highly effective personal defense round.
I would add one point regarding penetration, which is particularly applicable to .357 mags but is also relevant to .38 Specials. I frequently load my bedside Ruger KGP-141 with two or three 125 grain Nyclads and then fill the remaining chambers with 357 magnum rounds. I do this since carry-through/over-penetration can be a real issue in town homes. Obviously, in this way I will hopefully have the felon down with the Nyclads -- far less over-penetration risk -- but have the .357 magnum loads as "backup".
Nyclads available
I bought Nyclads from www.ammoman.com a few months back, just checked and they still have both the 125 AND a 125+P, both priced at $95.00 for five boxes. I went in with a buddy or two and split the 5 boxes.
I'm not sure that this or any .38 will expand (in a bad guy, not test media) out of a snub, this one looks more likely to than others, and less recoil in my 642 than a 158 LSWC. Makes it more likely that the whole cylinder full will land in the same vicinity when launched quickly.
I bought Nyclads from www.ammoman.com a few months back, just checked and they still have both the 125 AND a 125+P, both priced at $95.00 for five boxes. I went in with a buddy or two and split the 5 boxes.
I'm not sure that this or any .38 will expand (in a bad guy, not test media) out of a snub, this one looks more likely to than others, and less recoil in my 642 than a 158 LSWC. Makes it more likely that the whole cylinder full will land in the same vicinity when launched quickly.
Blue Heeler
Moderator
As far as I am aware the Nyclads are only useful for stopping lead particles from getting into the air on enclosed ranges,and poisoning the staff on the range.
Personally I use a 125gr JHP,either PMC or Winchester.
Iv'e never worried about any other sort of load.
Personally I use a 125gr JHP,either PMC or Winchester.
Iv'e never worried about any other sort of load.