What self defense caliber to safe guard your hearing?

Mas Ayoob, in one article a year or two ago,
recommended that you keep your handgun (or shotgun) and ear protection together at home

(I guess, come to think of it, that I need to put a spare set of muffs next to my small, one gun bed-side gun vault.)

He highly recommends the electronic earmuffs, which can actually amplify sounds -- very useful if you hear sounds and are waiting to see what's happening.
 
Worse than the potential hearing loss is the very real possibility that you will wind up with ringing in the ears FOREVER. It may not happen immediately or it can go away and come back to haunt you years later. This can be very dibilitating and depending on it's severity, you may wish you had been the one who lost the gunfight. Maybe you could stick your finger in one ear and save that one. If ringing started in the other ear that was intolerable and you couldn't adjust to it, I guess you could have the auditory nerve to that ear medically severed to stop the ringing (although I have read that doesn't always work). Read up on William Shatner's (Capt. Kirk of Star Trek) bout with ringing in the ears. Nearly drove him to commit suicide, but he was able to obtain help that trained him to be able to ignore the ringing noises. Anyone who recreationally shoots without hearing protection is a fool.
 
A couple of years ago I received a catalog of stuff for bounty hunters to buy.

One of the items was a baseball bat that was loaded with a bag of lead shot weighing several ounces. The propellant was three CO2 cartridges loaded into the handle of the bat and the bag went out the large end. It was fired by slamming your hand into the small end if I recall. I wonder how well it could be aimed but I'll bet that a bat-that-fires would have some surprise value.

My memory is dim but I think it was about 8 oz. and about 600 or 700 fps... I do remember that it said it was a potentially lethal weapon and to be used for instant stops on big guys who might be wearing some sort of armour or heavy clothing.

According to the ad it would instantly stop the attacker without penetration but might break ribs or stop the heart. I remember thinking that I would NOT want to be hit by one of those bags but that it would solve some sound and court problems potentially.

I've never seen one nor do I know anyone who ever used any of the bag projectile devices but they might have some merit. I'd certainly want some reliable testimony from a user I could speak to before I depended on one however.

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Talk is cheap; Free Speech is NOT.

[This message has been edited by Jody Hudson (edited July 30, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Jody Hudson (edited July 30, 2000).]
 
Bullseye has, well, hit the bullseye. What I was trying to say in my earlier posts (and obviously failing), was that there is no such thing as auditory bypass induced by adrenaline or anything else. The damage will be done, as C.R. Sam pointed out, to the cochlear hairs, not the eardrum. This is permanent. And while it may or may not totally deafen you, it is the ringing (as Bullseye notes) which is the worst result, not reduction on various levels (the "huh?" syndrome). My shooting partner is a Korean War Marine combat veteran (mortar squad). He suffers from extreme Tintinitus (ringing of the ears) which gets worse as his hearing lessens naturally with age. There is no way to stop it and if he became legally deaf all he would hear is the ringing! He has seen all the specialists --- no hope. So do use a lower caliber because, even with the reverberation from the walls, it is somewhat safer. However, I agree with Walt and Mas Ayoob and I keep my Peltor electronic muffs next to my house gun. Not only will they protect my hearing, but they help me hear the bad guys moving around (having been originally designed for military and police use). This had been a good thread, FUD. Keep up the good work! :)
 
What difference is there if any between the "sharp crack" of a .357 and the "thump" of a .45 Colt? While I can't scientifically prove it, the .357 sure seems to hurt more while the .45 Colt doesn't bother me that much. What? huh? ;)

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The best weapon for self defense is the one you have when the need arises!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dave D:
Hearing protection is a somewhat mute point when you consider the necessity of hearing whats going on around you in a truly bad situation. Perfect hearing is of no use to a dead man.[/quote]

Which is why I said "active hearing protection" meaning "electronic". The type that amplifies normal sound but cuts out gunfire.
 
Prof has a good point re the tinnitus or ringing. It may come on later or start right away. It can be a bugger. I have a J-57 engine at idle in one side and a T-58 in the other, they keep the crickets company. I have learned to live with it but it ain't easy.

Sam....follow me, I know a shortcut.
 
Good Evening Everyone-

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Originally quoted by Dave D.: Hearing protection is a somewhat mute point when you consider the necessity of hearing whats going on around you in a truly bad situation.[/quote]

Dave, that's a great play on words! The availability of active hearing protection definitely makes it a moot point. You can have enhanced hearing and a high level of protection at the same time.

Regards,

~ Blue Jays ~
 
If an armed intruder breaks into your home and is an immediate direct threat to your life and the lives of your family, you should not only put on a pair of ear protectors but also the proper tempered shooting glasses. You must also don the proper shooting clothing, including the peaked cap from your favorite gunzine and the belt with the logo to match the gun you are using. If you have a heavy recoil firearm, a leather glove as recommended in the gun magazines is an absolute necessity.

NONSENSE! What kind of thinking is this? If someone is trying to kill you, you kill him and don't worry about your damn hearing! Loss of some of your hearing is a helluva lot better than loss of all of your life!

Jim
 
Well, great if you've made the preparations to protect your hearing ahead of time with all those gadgets. Guaranteed it wont mean diddley if TSHTF.
That said, I certainly don't train without hearing protection as a rule.

[This message has been edited by Dave D (edited July 31, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dave D:
Well, great if you've made the preparations to protect your hearing ahead of time with all those gadgets. Guaranteed it wont mean diddley if TSHTF.
That said, I certainly don't train without hearing protection as a rule.

[This message has been edited by Dave D (edited July 31, 2000).][/quote]
Hey Fud,
You are just going to have to bite the bullet.
(no pun intended) and wear hearing protection to bed. Then you can shoot any caliber you like.
 
Huh? What? COULD YOU GUYS SPEAK UP? I can't hear a DARNED thing you're saying!

Hearing damage from years of rock concerts, not handguns... The permanent cricket chirp in my ears makes silence deafening. BUT, I can still hear most stuff, and my life wasn't in danger either. I doubt the damage to your ears from a one time event would do enough hearing damage for you to notice without the aid of a hearing test before and after the event. Also, isn't it sustained noise above safe dB level that's supposed to do the most damage?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by C.R.Sam:
I have a J-57 engine at idle in one side and a T-58 in the other, they keep the crickets company.[/quote]


Sam, I know what you mean. I have a T-58 in one side and a T-56 in the other side.

Rob
 
I ALWAYS shoot with hearing protection when I'm practicing, BUT if there's a criminal in my house intending harm to my wife or myself, I won't have time to worry about hearing protection. I'd want to be able to hear every little sound as a tactical advantage, not muffle one of my key senses. If the house is dark, my eyesight is already inhibited. I say, keep the ears open and any hearing loss is just something I'm willing to sacrifice for the lives of my family. There is no such thing as a risk free world. So to answer your question, I'm going for the 14 rounds of the big .45, and damn the decibel levels...


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The first step is registration, the second step is confiscation, the final step is subjugation.
 
check out:
http://www.glockmeister.com/357sig.html

They have a list of decibel levels versus various noises. I cut and paste below.. The web page I got this from is touting the .357 sig cartridge and is titled: "Why the 357 sig Cartridge is catching on" if anyone is interested. They also discuss decibel level with respect to firearms in a little more depth than I have cut and pasted below.

Here's a short list of Environmental Noise decibel ratings:

dB Environmental Noise
10 Normal breathing
50 Interior home noise
70 Crowded restaurant
80 City traffic
85 Hearing Damage Possible
90 Lawn mower
120 Threshold of Pain
120 Siren
130 Jackhammer
140 Jet engine at takeoff
152 .22 pistol
156 12 gauge shotgun
157 .45 ACP pistol
160 9mm pistol
164 .357 Magnum revolver

The decibel scale is a logarithmic scale, not a linear one. Each increase of 3 dB corresponds to sound that has twice as much energy (measured in pascals). Each 10 dB increase corresponds to a 10-fold increase in energy.
 
I have no experience shooting in my home (thank goodness). I can only say that shooting at indoor ranges is too darned *loud* for me to tolerate. I always wear two levels of hearing protection when shooting at any range, but especially at an indoor range: ear plugs plus a muff. But so far I've made no provision at all to have hearing protection available in a home defense scenario.

As for ringing in the ears, right now I'm sitting in a quiet room, except that my ears are screaming at me from inside my head ....
 
Interesting topic. One that is of high personal interest to me. Prof is right, it's the damage to the cochlear hairs that does the deed. I read a story about a woman in the Halifax, PA area that fired a .30-30 three times at a deer and effectively lost her hearing for life. She had horrible ringing, banging, etc. in her ears for life. Her father had ear problems, and had gone deaf, so it seems like it was an inherited weakness. That brings me to my point. I don't have any scientific proof of it, but it seems that different people have different sensitivity to loud noise. While everyone suffers hearing loss from loud noise, I think some people might suffer more loss more quickly than others. I know my own ears are very sensitive to loud noise, and if I subject myself to loud noise, I pay for it with ringing and subdued hearing for a couple of days. I've worked around loud noise all my life, and my hearing has suffered for it. I have tinnitis and some hearing loss. I try to keep ear plugs handy in the gun cabinet so I can take them when I go out to shoot. In an emergency situation, I would stick a set of ear valves in (which would let me hear peoples' voices, but would deaden gunshots) when I grab the firearm, IF I could do so without further endangering myself or my family by the approximate two second delay. On the other hand, if the ear protection wasn't available, or if time just didn't permit, I would go without and take my chances. I certainly realize that in a situation like this, seconds count. The noise factor and its effect on my ears is one reason I don't care for extremely large caliber handguns or hot magnum loads. I figure I have enough training to be able to hit center of mass and stop an assailant with a 9mm or .38+P, and I just can't be convinced that a .44 mag or hot .357 mag load wouldn't be harder on my hearing. If my life is threatened, I intend to survive, and I intend to do it with zero injury to myself and my family if possible. Just a few rambling thoughts on the subject.

-10CFR
 
Any .45 with a good suppressor. My choice would be either an HK USP or 1911, both with the appropriate AWC Nexus suppressor.

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Shoot straight & make big holes, regards, Richard at The Shottist's Center
 
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